So frustrated dealing with ADD teen's magical thinking

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the things our high school did was provide parents with a list of expectations for each class that included how many hours of homework a day, how much writing was required, etc. They also had an evening program that I took my son to. When my son went through this phase, I put together a schedule of what his week would look like if he took the classes he was suggesting. He reached the conclusion that it wasn't realistic.

You will not get a modification of no homework for high level classes.

Wrong. In public school, it would be illegal to deny an accommodation for a high level class for a disabled student. (Probably in private school also, but there is more leeway there.) Modifications of homework can be done in many ways. Kids can do alternate problems. Kids can have more time to turn homework in. Kids can have homework scribed for them. Kids can turn in alternative projects (like a video explanation of a chemistry experiment instead of a written report).

Saying, "we refuse to modify homework for high level classes," is denying disabled students the opportunities available to non-disabled students.

Modified homework is absolutely an available accommodation. You might have to fight for it, but it is an option. Keep going up the chain and complaining if you are denied this kind of accommodation.

Signed, the mom of 2 different SN kids in magnet programs.

And what's your game plan here for college and life beyond in the work world? When does all this accommodating end, exactly?

These 24 year olds who've been propped up their entire academic career are a pain to manage when they discover that yes, they do have to deliver to the client on time without extra time, and no, we are not going to assign their pre-work to their office mate and double her work because Mr Accommodated has difficulty with all that organization

So well said.

It's sad that people still don't understand this.

Parents and the medical community have fought for decades to get laws enacted, such as IDEA, to serve children with special needs and get them to fulfill whatever potential they have.
As young adults, they will not be spoiled people who require accommodations, nor will helping them along in school make them unable to adapt in the real world.
On the contrary, children who would have been brow-beaten by the system and would have flunked out, gotten depressed or suicidal, now have the opportunity to show what they can do and go as far as they possibly can. Employment will be challenging for some of them, but teaching them about their disability/disorders, how to be self-aware and what their limits are, helps them to choose careers that work for them.

My son with severe ADHD has a gifted IQ. Without meds and extended time, he failed a grade. With meds and extended time, he's top in his class. He understands he won't be able to work at a job that requires super fast productivity, like a journalist working to a deadline. He's a born academic, just like his research scientist father - where deep thinking is what's needed, no matter how slow. There is no one size fits all in job opportunities and careers - you have to find what's right for you.

I agree. Sad especially to see the response on a special needs forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And what's your game plan here for college and life beyond in the work world? When does all this accommodating end, exactly?

These 24 year olds who've been propped up their entire academic career are a pain to manage when they discover that yes, they do have to deliver to the client on time without extra time, and no, we are not going to assign their pre-work to their office mate and double her work because Mr Accommodated has difficulty with all that organization

This hasn't been my experience at all. The college graduates I have managed who are coming out of school with a history of receiving accommodations have been very self-aware of their strengths and development areas. And they typically have well-developed strategies for managing their work. It is true that my hires are likely in that twice exceptional category as they are also very bright.

But I think that the responsibility for figuring out accommodations/ strategies shifts to the students in college and that sets them up for success.

I have managed many more neurotypical recent grads who have no idea how to manage their time or request support when they need it. They are the one who I find most difficult to manage- their self-confidence has never been challenged. And they often lack the sheer grit/ determination that kids who have overcome disabilities have developed.

[Anonymous]

Op, back to your original question ~ let actual results govern the decision. For a child who struggles academically I'd say for every 2 C's (likely final grade) the difficulty of 1 subject needs to be dialed-down.

Whatever "formula" you use. Communicate the guidelines without judgement - - and whatever will be, will be.

[Anonymous]

In our family the kids have to "earn" through good grades, the right to take advanced classes.

No magical thinking here though good grades, or good-enough grades will vary by family.

[Anonymous]

I've seen too many families sign have their kid take heavy load of advanced classes. The kid doesn't do well. The parents then think the kid isn't ready/shouldn't go to college. Kid doesn't go. If they had just had an ordinary load, they'd have done well enough and they'd be off to college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the things our high school did was provide parents with a list of expectations for each class that included how many hours of homework a day, how much writing was required, etc. They also had an evening program that I took my son to. When my son went through this phase, I put together a schedule of what his week would look like if he took the classes he was suggesting. He reached the conclusion that it wasn't realistic.

You will not get a modification of no homework for high level classes.

Wrong. In public school, it would be illegal to deny an accommodation for a high level class for a disabled student. (Probably in private school also, but there is more leeway there.) Modifications of homework can be done in many ways. Kids can do alternate problems. Kids can have more time to turn homework in. Kids can have homework scribed for them. Kids can turn in alternative projects (like a video explanation of a chemistry experiment instead of a written report).

Saying, "we refuse to modify homework for high level classes," is denying disabled students the opportunities available to non-disabled students.

Modified homework is absolutely an available accommodation. You might have to fight for it, but it is an option. Keep going up the chain and complaining if you are denied this kind of accommodation.

Signed, the mom of 2 different SN kids in magnet programs.

And what's your game plan here for college and life beyond in the work world? When does all this accommodating end, exactly?

These 24 year olds who've been propped up their entire academic career are a pain to manage when they discover that yes, they do have to deliver to the client on time without extra time, and no, we are not going to assign their pre-work to their office mate and double her work because Mr Accommodated has difficulty with all that organization

So well said.

Most jobs don't require 2-3 hours of homework AFTER you leave each night.

[Anonymous]

My ADHD teen also likes "magical thinking." I once heard on a ADDtitude podcast that ADHD affects your ability to visualize the future. My kid definitely lacks the ability to see how such a tough schedule will turn out, even if he has been through it previously. One of the reasons he always wants to take honors and AP classes is to get the extra GPA boost those classes give (thinking that somehow, THIS time, I will get an A and it will count as a 4.5...) even though he and I both know that getting an A or B in an on-level course is a better choice for him than getting a C in an honors class.

We have only allowed higher level options occasionally, but only in the subject of most interest (so, science in our case).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the things our high school did was provide parents with a list of expectations for each class that included how many hours of homework a day, how much writing was required, etc. They also had an evening program that I took my son to. When my son went through this phase, I put together a schedule of what his week would look like if he took the classes he was suggesting. He reached the conclusion that it wasn't realistic.

You will not get a modification of no homework for high level classes.

Wrong. In public school, it would be illegal to deny an accommodation for a high level class for a disabled student. (Probably in private school also, but there is more leeway there.) Modifications of homework can be done in many ways. Kids can do alternate problems. Kids can have more time to turn homework in. Kids can have homework scribed for them. Kids can turn in alternative projects (like a video explanation of a chemistry experiment instead of a written report).

Saying, "we refuse to modify homework for high level classes," is denying disabled students the opportunities available to non-disabled students.

Modified homework is absolutely an available accommodation. You might have to fight for it, but it is an option. Keep going up the chain and complaining if you are denied this kind of accommodation.

Signed, the mom of 2 different SN kids in magnet programs.

And what's your game plan here for college and life beyond in the work world? When does all this accommodating end, exactly?

These 24 year olds who've been propped up their entire academic career are a pain to manage when they discover that yes, they do have to deliver to the client on time without extra time, and no, we are not going to assign their pre-work to their office mate and double her work because Mr Accommodated has difficulty with all that organization

So well said.

It's sad that people still don't understand this.

Parents and the medical community have fought for decades to get laws enacted, such as IDEA, to serve children with special needs and get them to fulfill whatever potential they have.
As young adults, they will not be spoiled people who require accommodations, nor will helping them along in school make them unable to adapt in the real world.
On the contrary, children who would have been brow-beaten by the system and would have flunked out, gotten depressed or suicidal, now have the opportunity to show what they can do and go as far as they possibly can. Employment will be challenging for some of them, but teaching them about their disability/disorders, how to be self-aware and what their limits are, helps them to choose careers that work for them.

My son with severe ADHD has a gifted IQ. Without meds and extended time, he failed a grade. With meds and extended time, he's top in his class. He understands he won't be able to work at a job that requires super fast productivity, like a journalist working to a deadline. He's a born academic, just like his research scientist father - where deep thinking is what's needed, no matter how slow. There is no one size fits all in job opportunities and careers - you have to find what's right for you.

Beautifully stated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:On the other hand, one of the hallmarks of ADHD is not that you can't focus, but that you have a hard time making yourself focus on the boring stuff. Is the challenging work something that your DC is much more interested in? If so, I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.

Have some more honest, non-critical conversation with your teen. Try and understand why he wants to take these classes. I can see if he is not turning in homework because it is really boring, so he can't bring himself to do it. Then something more interesting and challenging may really be helpful. Alternatively, if he's doing the homework but can't get organized to turn it in, then you have to ask how things can be structured so he does turn it in. Most ADD kids need a lot of support both at home and in school to develop the habit (that others develop easily at a much younger age) of turning in homework.

Ditto this. Kids with ADHD will suffer from exacerbated lack of focus if the material is t mundane for them. Have you explored accommodations to enable him to demonstrate his knowledge in ways that might more clearly show his abilities . I'm not saying that he's poor grades are related to testing approaches and are incompatible with him, but it is definitely a possibility for some ADHD kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And what's your game plan here for college and life beyond in the work world? When does all this accommodating end, exactly?

These 24 year olds who've been propped up their entire academic career are a pain to manage when they discover that yes, they do have to deliver to the client on time without extra time, and no, we are not going to assign their pre-work to their office mate and double her work because Mr Accommodated has difficulty with all that organization

On the off chance this is a serious question and this person is not just nuts and open to learning more about special needs I'll take a stab at this.

Most people I know who had ADHD as children grew out of it in their 20s or became mature enough to come up with strategies to manage their time and get their work done. I can assure you that these people are highly successful in their chosen careers. There are a couple of parents I know who have told me they still have ADHD symptoms as adults but they chose careers that are a good match and play on their strengths and not their weaknesses. Remember that many people with ADHD can hyperfocus on things they are really interested in and in real life as a grown up you don't need to do anything involving English Lit if it bores the pants off you. You can CHOOSE to focus on computer programming, real estate or the environment or whatever actually moves you. So, no, getting accommodations in high school for ADHD will not doom you for life.

I do not have an ADD or ADHD-challenged DC, but I was thinking the same thing. Once you are out of school, you are making choices about jobs and career paths that fit your strengths and weaknesses. Or can work with an employer who appreciates the strengths enough to accommodate the weaknesses. For example, my friend's husband has ADD. He admits himself that he is horrible at project management details. His employer, who he has been with for years, is OK with that because on the flip side he is a highly successful consultant to the client, awesome at seeing the big picture, coming up with the big idea and seeing the paths to get there that others may not see. So he comes up with the upfront, and then other folks on the team execute it to make sure all the project management details are covered. It's now a well-oiled machine.

[Anonymous]

I think that the kid needs to understand that you have to meet standards to move up. He deserves all accommodations necessary to help him, but if he isn't able to succeed in a regular course, having something more demanding doesn't make sense. If I don't prove myself in house league soccer, I am not going to be put on a travel team. But, it is true that motivation and possible boredom may play a part. I would look at his test scores and as the parent, you decide. If he is not gifted, it makes no sense. If he isn't achieving by the end of first quarter, he drops down to the regular level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And what's your game plan here for college and life beyond in the work world? When does all this accommodating end, exactly?

These 24 year olds who've been propped up their entire academic career are a pain to manage when they discover that yes, they do have to deliver to the client on time without extra time, and no, we are not going to assign their pre-work to their office mate and double her work because Mr Accommodated has difficulty with all that organization

On the off chance this is a serious question and this person is not just nuts and open to learning more about special needs I'll take a stab at this.

Most people I know who had ADHD as children grew out of it in their 20s or became mature enough to come up with strategies to manage their time and get their work done. I can assure you that these people are highly successful in their chosen careers. There are a couple of parents I know who have told me they still have ADHD symptoms as adults but they chose careers that are a good match and play on their strengths and not their weaknesses. Remember that many people with ADHD can hyperfocus on things they are really interested in and in real life as a grown up you don't need to do anything involving English Lit if it bores the pants off you. You can CHOOSE to focus on computer programming, real estate or the environment or whatever actually moves you. So, no, getting accommodations in high school for ADHD will not doom you for life.

+100. We can choose careers that play to our strengths, whereas school tests us in so many areas that are not our strong suits.

I'm not at all super focused myself, and seem to be always cutting it close with deadlines at work, but I work as a senior attorney at a well-respected corporation. Many people tell me how they wish they could work for the company for which I work.

I have learned to budget additional time for myself for all projects, and ask lots of questions. That's what someone with ADHD can do.

I read a lot of books about business, and it's interesting how many very successful entrepreneurs did not have good grades in school.