Approaches to disruptive student behavior

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would like to know whether parents have experienced consistently disruptive behaviors by students in their child's classroom, and what strategies or actions were taken by the school to address the behaviors.

In your experience, do schools have the skills to address effectively the special learning needs, emotional traumas, or social deficits which often lead to disruptive student behavior? If not, do schools ask students to leave?

Do schools tend to take a "wait and see" approach, especially in the lower elementary grades, in an attempt to be as supportive as possible? If so, does that tend to perpetuate or to ameliorate the disruptive behaviors throughout the year or over successive years?

Is teacher time dominated by children with high needs, or does the classroom function in a more balanced manner?

I would be so grateful to hear your observations. I don't need to know the name of your school, just your observations. Thanks!

Our family experienced this, and here was our experience - the school tried VERY hard to address the issues. And they allowed the student to remain enrolled through several of the lower elementary grades. However, it became clear that the behaviors weren't a byproduct of regular immaturity, but rather were more deep-seated, and eventually, the child was (I believe) asked to leave.

I don't believe teacher time was dominated by this child, but they were removed from class often.

Unfortunately, there are going to be certain children who have needs that are too great for a school to address. I am not talking about something like supports for ADHD, but more when a child is obviously troubled, and the issues are not caused by school.

Ultimately, I know that the change was beneficial for the rest of the class, and I have heard that the child is doing a lot better in his new environment.

What is his new environment?

I'd rather not say specifically, but it is the polar opposite of the original environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our son is in the later grades now of a washington area K-6/8 (either: norwood, sheridan, nps, green acres, lowell)

in his small grade there have been 3 extremely disruptive students. two were repeatedly violent, one was not. the non-violent child and his sibling have ADHD and maybe some other LDs, and their parents pulled them and put them into MCPS where, I gather, their learning needs are better addressed. It was a two-fer: parents were told that school really wasn't able to serve the older child who wasn't disruptive and that kid wasn't welcome back. parents took kid out and the disruptive younger kid too, for good measure.

that leaves the two other disruptive kids in my son's grade. one has stopped being immaturely and gratuitously violent after -several- years of complaints by parents -- including me. this kid used to sucker punch other students, kick them in the head/face on the playground, knock them down. the school's response was that they were aware of it and working with this person and were pleased that we felt comfortable having these candid conversations. we responded that if they didn't intervene to guarantee our child's safety, we would withdraw him and expect full tuition back, contract notwithstanding. sounds hysterical, i know, but the other kid had drawn blood from more than one classmate. we were sick of this school's preaching of tolerance and differences.

the other kid is still unpredictably explosive but hurts other kids far less frequently during outbursts (as a non-psychiatrist, i'd guess this kid has emotional disturbance disorder.) this kid also gets to stay and is welcomed again with the mantra of "we celebrate all kinds of students." we stopped complaining about this kid when this kid stopped physically hurting our child a few years ago; however, i know that this kid still interrupts and sometimes the entire class comes to a standstill while teachers deal.

we put up with that, because there's some truth to the school's stance that it's good for all the kids to learn to deal with "all types." but the repeated physical violence thing really had to stop and the school needed to hear the words "lawsuit" and "safe" a few times.

With rare exception, I've found it has happened in every one of my children's schools and grades. Most of the time I find parents are hyper-sensitive to it. They lack understanding and empathy and cling to the opportunity to talk about the child with other parents. Sure schools need to make sure that children are safe. Beyond that, I agree with the comments above that it's a learning opportunity for my children. Got to deal with it. Life's not always easy. Some have difficulty getting through the days. What I won't do is join the chorus of parents who complain about it to the school, whisper about the parents and child at cocktail parties or in the carline, tell my child that i'll handle it, or criticize a teacher over how they manage the classroom.

All of us can benefit from reading this piece again.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2014/11/14/teacher-to-parents-about-that-kid-the-one-who-hits-disrupts-and-influences-your-kid/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our son is in the later grades now of a washington area K-6/8 (either: norwood, sheridan, nps, green acres, lowell)

in his small grade there have been 3 extremely disruptive students. two were repeatedly violent, one was not. the non-violent child and his sibling have ADHD and maybe some other LDs, and their parents pulled them and put them into MCPS where, I gather, their learning needs are better addressed. It was a two-fer: parents were told that school really wasn't able to serve the older child who wasn't disruptive and that kid wasn't welcome back. parents took kid out and the disruptive younger kid too, for good measure.

that leaves the two other disruptive kids in my son's grade. one has stopped being immaturely and gratuitously violent after -several- years of complaints by parents -- including me. this kid used to sucker punch other students, kick them in the head/face on the playground, knock them down. the school's response was that they were aware of it and working with this person and were pleased that we felt comfortable having these candid conversations. we responded that if they didn't intervene to guarantee our child's safety, we would withdraw him and expect full tuition back, contract notwithstanding. sounds hysterical, i know, but the other kid had drawn blood from more than one classmate. we were sick of this school's preaching of tolerance and differences.

the other kid is still unpredictably explosive but hurts other kids far less frequently during outbursts (as a non-psychiatrist, i'd guess this kid has emotional disturbance disorder.) this kid also gets to stay and is welcomed again with the mantra of "we celebrate all kinds of students." we stopped complaining about this kid when this kid stopped physically hurting our child a few years ago; however, i know that this kid still interrupts and sometimes the entire class comes to a standstill while teachers deal.

we put up with that, because there's some truth to the school's stance that it's good for all the kids to learn to deal with "all types." but the repeated physical violence thing really had to stop and the school needed to hear the words "lawsuit" and "safe" a few times.

With rare exception, I've found it has happened in every one of my children's schools and grades. Most of the time I find parents are hyper-sensitive to it. They lack understanding and empathy and cling to the opportunity to talk about the child with other parents. Sure schools need to make sure that children are safe. Beyond that, I agree with the comments above that it's a learning opportunity for my children. Got to deal with it. Life's not always easy. Some have difficulty getting through the days. What I won't do is join the chorus of parents who complain about it to the school, whisper about the parents and child at cocktail parties or in the carline, tell my child that i'll handle it, or criticize a teacher over how they manage the classroom.

All of us can benefit from reading this piece again.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2014/11/14/teacher-to-parents-about-that-kid-the-one-who-hits-disrupts-and-influences-your-kid/

Meh, I hated that piece. It's dismissive and ignores the issue that I really don't have to like or find "that kid" special.

[Anonymous]

With rare exception, I've found it has happened in every one of my children's schools and grades. Most of the time I find parents are hyper-sensitive to it. They lack understanding and empathy and cling to the opportunity to talk about the child with other parents. Sure schools need to make sure that children are safe. Beyond that, I agree with the comments above that it's a learning opportunity for my children. Got to deal with it. Life's not always easy. Some have difficulty getting through the days. What I won't do is join the chorus of parents who complain about it to the school, whisper about the parents and child at cocktail parties or in the carline, tell my child that i'll handle it, or criticize a teacher over how they manage the classroom.

All of us can benefit from reading this piece again.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/w...rupts-and-influences-your-kid/

I'm the poster you're responding to. I really resent the implication you are making, that I lack "empathy" and "understanding" because we finally put our foot down with the administration about stopping the injuries. My son "had difficulty getting through the days" after he was hit in the back of his head piece of wood, and the other time he had his front tooth knocked loose because he was kicked in the small of his back and fell forward.

I was "sensitive" to this, because I am a good parent, and I care about my son attending school in an environment where he will not be the victim of repeated assaults. His private school was not keeping him safe because the administration, back then, espoused the lily livered, touchy feely kumbaya blather that you seem to endorse. Much feel-good word salad while kids get punched in the face in the name of never-ending "tolerance." This wasn't about pre-verbal toddlers biting in daycare.

Another kid's right to mature and develop healthy, appropriate coping skills ends at the other kids' physical safety. Period.

[Anonymous]

I'm far from lily livered. You are so touchy. I wasn't responding to you just building on the conversation.

I was suggesting many of the parents are lily livered and therefore are raising those children.

It is interesting to compare the relevance of these types of discussions on the private vs any of the public school discussions on DCUM.

[Anonymous]

What is lily livered?

[Anonymous]

I think our private tolerates bad behavior for far too long. Nobody gets kicked out, as far as I can tell. And this is a highly competitive school that lots of kids want to attend. My kid has never been a victim of some of the delinquents in our class, but I would put a lot of pressure on the administration if he had been. Why should any sort of physical harm be tolerated at all in kids beyond preschool? Honestly, I think kids who hit, scratch, punch, etc. should get one warning and then they should be out the door. But that's not what happens, which is too bad for the rest of us who are spending tens of thousands of dollars a year to send our children to these schools.

[Anonymous]

I love that article and my child has been one of the ones with a special spot on the carpet and special jobs so she can take breaks to cry/ manage anxiety. I do really get that. And my other child has had a shadow in preschool to learn to manage emotions/ behavior. It is amazing the progress that kids can make.

But now I am at a loss as to what to say to my child when she is the one that the child who is much bigger than her chooses to punch or kick or hit. My daughter is more kind than I am- she says the child is having a hard time. And I love that about her and try to reinforce it. But I am scared for the safety of my child. And I don't know what to do about that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

With rare exception, I've found it has happened in every one of my children's schools and grades. Most of the time I find parents are hyper-sensitive to it. They lack understanding and empathy and cling to the opportunity to talk about the child with other parents. Sure schools need to make sure that children are safe. Beyond that, I agree with the comments above that it's a learning opportunity for my children. Got to deal with it. Life's not always easy. Some have difficulty getting through the days. What I won't do is join the chorus of parents who complain about it to the school, whisper about the parents and child at cocktail parties or in the carline, tell my child that i'll handle it, or criticize a teacher over how they manage the classroom.

All of us can benefit from reading this piece again.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/w...rupts-and-influences-your-kid/

I'm the poster you're responding to. I really resent the implication you are making, that I lack "empathy" and "understanding" because we finally put our foot down with the administration about stopping the injuries. My son "had difficulty getting through the days" after he was hit in the back of his head piece of wood, and the other time he had his front tooth knocked loose because he was kicked in the small of his back and fell forward.

I was "sensitive" to this, because I am a good parent, and I care about my son attending school in an environment where he will not be the victim of repeated assaults. His private school was not keeping him safe because the administration, back then, espoused the lily livered, touchy feely kumbaya blather that you seem to endorse. Much feel-good word salad while kids get punched in the face in the name of never-ending "tolerance." This wasn't about pre-verbal toddlers biting in daycare.

Another kid's right to mature and develop healthy, appropriate coping skills ends at the other kids' physical safety. Period.

+1. Don't allow anyone to emotionally hijack you or your kid.

Same rules apply to all. If someone cannot behave according to the common standards, that someone does not belong there. End of story.

[Anonymous]

I don't know some tough parents. My son in 1 grade has a pretty disruptive kid in class and honestly it does not take away from my son's experience. When the child acts up it is dealt with asap and my son knows that if he does same thing there are implications. As for injuries I have heard other parents complain but there is a huge range in what is an injury and at what age. If you are in 6th grade and hitting people this is a problem. In first meh not great but let's not present a hospital trip and that your child is scarred for life. Lots of drama parents and same parents who regularly exclude other kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

With rare exception, I've found it has happened in every one of my children's schools and grades. Most of the time I find parents are hyper-sensitive to it. They lack understanding and empathy and cling to the opportunity to talk about the child with other parents. Sure schools need to make sure that children are safe. Beyond that, I agree with the comments above that it's a learning opportunity for my children. Got to deal with it. Life's not always easy. Some have difficulty getting through the days. What I won't do is join the chorus of parents who complain about it to the school, whisper about the parents and child at cocktail parties or in the carline, tell my child that i'll handle it, or criticize a teacher over how they manage the classroom.

All of us can benefit from reading this piece again.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/w...rupts-and-influences-your-kid/

I'm the poster you're responding to. I really resent the implication you are making, that I lack "empathy" and "understanding" because we finally put our foot down with the administration about stopping the injuries. My son "had difficulty getting through the days" after he was hit in the back of his head piece of wood, and the other time he had his front tooth knocked loose because he was kicked in the small of his back and fell forward.

I was "sensitive" to this, because I am a good parent, and I care about my son attending school in an environment where he will not be the victim of repeated assaults. His private school was not keeping him safe because the administration, back then, espoused the lily livered, touchy feely kumbaya blather that you seem to endorse. Much feel-good word salad while kids get punched in the face in the name of never-ending "tolerance." This wasn't about pre-verbal toddlers biting in daycare.

Another kid's right to mature and develop healthy, appropriate coping skills ends at the other kids' physical safety. Period.

Your kid is going to be a wuss.

[Anonymous]

I have had children in both public and private, and the disciplinary problems are present in BOTH systems.

Public schools are set up with a lot of resources and solutions to help students with particular needs, BUT this can only happen if the parents are on board, and sometimes they are not, particularly when it comes to ADHD medication in elementary school - parents are slow to make that decision, and I understand it's a big one.

There are also severely disturbed kids whose parents just have no clue. Both my son and daughter were hit in MCPS by a really disturbed child, who was already flagged in the system and receiving services. I had to demand he be escorted out of school by a staff member because he would start hitting kids in front of the school entrance as soon as he walked out and parents were still waiting with siblings to pick up other children. He punched my 18 month old in the face!

In privates, resources are not easily allocated to serving students with issues. Often, there isn't a dedicated paraeducator to shadow them in class and take them out if they're disruptive. There aren't pull-out classes where a staff psychologist can have mini-lessons with him on self-regulation and self-awareness on a regular basis. No speech and language pathologist to hold social skills classes every week. Then there's the whole issue of expelling a child with influential parents.

No school will be perfect, and you can only hope to voice your concerns in a forceful yet constructive manner.

[Anonymous]

Another kid's right to mature and develop healthy, appropriate coping skills ends at the other kids' physical safety. Period.



Your kid is going to be a wuss.

Yeah, well, in 2016 America, raising a pugilistic brawler isn't really a useful skill set.

I could totally see how the ability and willingness to punch the shit out of another guy could be beneficial in another era (1850s prairie? 1900s bootlegger?)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Another kid's right to mature and develop healthy, appropriate coping skills ends at the other kids' physical safety. Period.



Your kid is going to be a wuss.

Yeah, well, in 2016 America, raising a pugilistic brawler isn't really a useful skill set.

I could totally see how the ability and willingness to punch the shit out of another guy could be beneficial in another era (1850s prairie? 1900s bootlegger?)

This is much more fun than the other conversation. 1890s union organizer? 1790s stevedore?

[Anonymous]

2016 Trump supporter?