Specialty School Programs in PG for all or just the elite?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually think the opposite on the specialty programs. I guess we would be considered "elite", and lotteried into French Immersion. We really wanted an immersion program for our children. Our next option was to buy a home in one of the better performing school zones. Private was option 3.

However - the lottery is too late for parents who are heavily leaning toward private. So I think a lot of the people who you are talking about have already signed on the dotted line for private school by the time the lottery rolls around.

This is us exactly. Between DH and I we have 6 degrees; we live in PG because we're cheap and have a lot of debt from paying off those 6 degrees! HHI currently 180K and we will move out before our daughter hits school age (she's not yet 2) because the lottery timing is terrible. Public education is my priority and I can't count on PG. So to speak to the original question, the lottery is and should be for all, but those programs need to be expanded so there's a better chance of middle and upper middle class people sticking around. Ideally, yes, our local school would also be improved, but I think you have to prioritize charter expansion first.

If you want more specialty schools, are you actively advocating for that? There is a form letter on another thread on this board, have you sent it to your school board representative or school CEO Maxwell? We are where you will be (DD is 4) and moving is easier said than done. The math has worked for us just going for private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually think the opposite on the specialty programs. I guess we would be considered "elite", and lotteried into French Immersion. We really wanted an immersion program for our children. Our next option was to buy a home in one of the better performing school zones. Private was option 3.

However - the lottery is too late for parents who are heavily leaning toward private. So I think a lot of the people who you are talking about have already signed on the dotted line for private school by the time the lottery rolls around.

This is us exactly. Between DH and I we have 6 degrees; we live in PG because we're cheap and have a lot of debt from paying off those 6 degrees! HHI currently 180K and we will move out before our daughter hits school age (she's not yet 2) because the lottery timing is terrible. Public education is my priority and I can't count on PG. So to speak to the original question, the lottery is and should be for all, but those programs need to be expanded so there's a better chance of middle and upper middle class people sticking around. Ideally, yes, our local school would also be improved, but I think you have to prioritize charter expansion first.

If you want more specialty schools, are you actively advocating for that? There is a form letter on another thread on this board, have you sent it to your school board representative or school CEO Maxwell? We are where you will be (DD is 4) and moving is easier said than done. The math has worked for us just going for private.

I totally understand, and no, I haven't done as much as I should to advocate for the change. I guess I'm cynical and don't believe the desire is really there.

For us, we'd move even if the math said do private over relocating. I don't like living so far from the city and really miss where we used to rent (dodgy end of Takoma Park).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually think the opposite on the specialty programs. I guess we would be considered "elite", and lotteried into French Immersion. We really wanted an immersion program for our children. Our next option was to buy a home in one of the better performing school zones. Private was option 3.

However - the lottery is too late for parents who are heavily leaning toward private. So I think a lot of the people who you are talking about have already signed on the dotted line for private school by the time the lottery rolls around.

This is us exactly. Between DH and I we have 6 degrees; we live in PG because we're cheap and have a lot of debt from paying off those 6 degrees! HHI currently 180K and we will move out before our daughter hits school age (she's not yet 2) because the lottery timing is terrible. Public education is my priority and I can't count on PG. So to speak to the original question, the lottery is and should be for all, but those programs need to be expanded so there's a better chance of middle and upper middle class people sticking around. Ideally, yes, our local school would also be improved, but I think you have to prioritize charter expansion first.

If you want more specialty schools, are you actively advocating for that? There is a form letter on another thread on this board, have you sent it to your school board representative or school CEO Maxwell? We are where you will be (DD is 4) and moving is easier said than done. The math has worked for us just going for private.

I totally understand, and no, I haven't done as much as I should to advocate for the change. I guess I'm cynical and don't believe the desire is really there.

For us, we'd move even if the math said do private over relocating. I don't like living so far from the city and really miss where we used to rent (dodgy end of Takoma Park).

Well for us we said we'd move to somewhere with a better commute *and* better schools (because moving is a freaking pain). I don't know where you live, but we could not find anything that satisfied both of those criteria that was a sane financial proposition. Like I said, I was where you are, and I had almost your exact reasoning, and I probably wrote exactly the same thing you just wrote on some discussion thread a few years ago.

If you are so committed to public schools that you will move over the issue, you should probably at least attempt to advocate for your interests. It's not like you don't have to do that in other counties because their school systems are just peachy keen with no problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fastest way to bring up the scores and reputation of PGCPS is to expand specialty programs (GT and others) that would draw upper middle class kids (with involved, educated parents) back into the public schools system. They come back into PGCPS, they are already firing on all cylinders, they get good test scores, and suddenly PGCPS raises its standing in the state.

It is much harder (as history shows) to bring up the scores of those in the lower SES bracket. Not saying that it should be ignored, but obviously, PGCPS and the state have been trying to do this for decades and it hasn't had much success. PGCPS just needs more of the not-so-needy students in its population to bring up the averages. Special programs are the way to win back the kids who are in privates and win educated families looking for a reasonably priced house to move into PGCPS. Families that have high scoring kids are looking for schools with a proven track record or special programs.

I agree there are a lot of good performing schools that's can be easily great performing school. Like Woodmore, Glen Dale, Perrywood etc all of whom score around a 7 on great school website. They could easily be a 8 or 9. So I think the county should concentrate on those schools in the 5-7 score range, their are plenty of them. Yes also give better MS options

I think this is a great idea. Why can't we find out what is holding these schools back? There are MANY schools in the county that are 5-7. The test scores when you did in are not terrible, but they can be improved.

For example - Montpelier is a 6. They have a 61% free lunch population, yet in 2014, 82% of third graders were proficient in math and 81% were proficient in reading. Why is that so bad for a neighborhood school? Fifth graders were 78% in math and 87% in reading. Yes, that can be improved, but why not send your child there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Sorry I was reading the original thread and while I do agree that it would be fantastic if those programs were expanded ( I feel PG does a great job with them) I wanted know if you felt those programs already in existence function as "private schools" for PG upper class families? I feel improving the neighborhood schools should be first and foremost before we do anything else, but looking at the demographics at the specialty programs it seems they are functioning as private schools. Am I off about this or spot on? Its almost become like the charter schools in upper NW DC.

P.S. Not passing judgement just curious

Please tell us more -- who is this "elite" that lives in PG and sends kids to public school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fastest way to bring up the scores and reputation of PGCPS is to expand specialty programs (GT and others) that would draw upper middle class kids (with involved, educated parents) back into the public schools system. They come back into PGCPS, they are already firing on all cylinders, they get good test scores, and suddenly PGCPS raises its standing in the state.

It is much harder (as history shows) to bring up the scores of those in the lower SES bracket. Not saying that it should be ignored, but obviously, PGCPS and the state have been trying to do this for decades and it hasn't had much success. PGCPS just needs more of the not-so-needy students in its population to bring up the averages. Special programs are the way to win back the kids who are in privates and win educated families looking for a reasonably priced house to move into PGCPS. Families that have high scoring kids are looking for schools with a proven track record or special programs.

I agree there are a lot of good performing schools that's can be easily great performing school. Like Woodmore, Glen Dale, Perrywood etc all of whom score around a 7 on great school website. They could easily be a 8 or 9. So I think the county should concentrate on those schools in the 5-7 score range, their are plenty of them. Yes also give better MS options

I think this is a great idea. Why can't we find out what is holding these schools back? There are MANY schools in the county that are 5-7. The test scores when you did in are not terrible, but they can be improved.

For example - Montpelier is a 6. They have a 61% free lunch population, yet in 2014, 82% of third graders were proficient in math and 81% were proficient in reading. Why is that so bad for a neighborhood school? Fifth graders were 78% in math and 87% in reading. Yes, that can be improved, but why not send your child there?

I agree which is why I'm not sure "parenting" is the big or only problem with our system. Alot of our schools are performing good but not great. That's where a sound curriculum matters.

[Anonymous]

I like many of you are disappointed in both the private and public schools in PG. I am middle class and feel many of the schools teach to the average child and do not expect a lot or greatness from our kids. I chose to stay in PG because I like my neighborhood and house (its affordable and has space I want). However my child attends DC independent school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Sorry I was reading the original thread and while I do agree that it would be fantastic if those programs were expanded ( I feel PG does a great job with them) I wanted know if you felt those programs already in existence function as "private schools" for PG upper class families? I feel improving the neighborhood schools should be first and foremost before we do anything else, but looking at the demographics at the specialty programs it seems they are functioning as private schools. Am I off about this or spot on? Its almost become like the charter schools in upper NW DC.

P.S. Not passing judgement just curious

There are no charter schools in upper NW DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I like many of you are disappointed in both the private and public schools in PG. I am middle class and feel many of the schools teach to the average child and do not expect a lot or greatness from our kids. I chose to stay in PG because I like my neighborhood and house (its affordable and has space I want). However my child attends DC independent school.

Please explain- what didn't you like about it in specifics? I want to know what is around the bend for our family.

[Anonymous]

Maxwell proposed a large budget increase and some of that was to create more spots in specialty programs, but it was voted down by our county taxpayers.

[Anonymous]

OP, what kind of programs are you actually proposing? Just add additional languages to the mix, add additional schools that use the same languages that are already being taught, add more TAG programs, or more performing arts programs? The specialty programs were originally designed as part of a voluntary desegregation program in lieu of bussing. I'm not sure you can say the current policy is effective. The specialty programs tend to be mixed African-American and white, but have a low representation of Hispanic families and a low number of FARMS students in the buildings. I agree that the county needed to add in Spanish immersion programs when they implemented them a few years ago and the argument could be made to make more Mandarin programs available, but I'm not sure I agree that we need more French immersion programs. No offense to the French immersion program, but the reason so many families apply is because they have good scores (largely because it has a lower number of ELL and FARMS students), not because of an overwhelming demand for families to have French speaking children. All the specialty programs tend to be under capacity in the upper grades because some students leave and the system doesn't fill those available seats. I'm also convinced that the two TAG only center schools was a horrible idea and should be broken down into two or three school apiece. TAG programs should be in schools with a comprehensive program that would allow students that are high achieving in one area (for example math) to take classes across programs even if they don't qualify for the whole program. Two of the best schools in the state are Heather Hills and Glenarden Woods, but the county reputation as a whole doesn't hinge on the test scores of two schools. As a result, there are a lot of schools with lower ranked scores that might be boosted up a level or two if the comprehensive program also housed a TAG center rather than pulling those kids out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I'm also convinced that the two TAG only center schools was a horrible idea and should be broken down into two or three school apiece. TAG programs should be in schools with a comprehensive program that would allow students that are high achieving in one area (for example math) to take classes across programs even if they don't qualify for the whole program. Two of the best schools in the state are Heather Hills and Glenarden Woods, but the county reputation as a whole doesn't hinge on the test scores of two schools. As a result, there are a lot of schools with lower ranked scores that might be boosted up a level or two if the comprehensive program also housed a TAG center rather than pulling those kids out.

EXACTLY!!! If PGCPS would invest more in the "TAG in the regular classroom" program AND gave those parents a guaranteed path to an acceptable middle school option everyone would benefit. Right now if you send your kid to the TAG magnet you can be set until graduation because those kids have automatic admission to the TAG middle school magnet and those kids have continuation to IB programs. If you don't send your kids to the TAG ES then you are rolling the dice as far as MS and HS.