I don't have faith, I'm glad you do

[Anonymous]

Thread totally getting hijacked by ppl who don't have faith, but ARE kind of pissed off at ppl who do have faith. Start your own thread! OP I agree with you. I am agnostic, but have super fond feelings about the faith I was raised in, minus some points the angry PPs have raised which I won't dwell on here or when chatting with religious ppl for the most part. Because for the most part, religious ppl are not making my life any different. MD law notwithstanding. Would love to have assisted suicide & I live in MD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's all I want to say. I don't have faith although I have a fondness for the religion I was raised with. I believe in a moral order. If your faith guides and supports you, that's terrific. We don't have to be at odds.

What's "moral order"?

I believe there are moral truths, such as the immorality of murdering a human being is most circumstances, and I, like many, do not think you need a supreme being to hand down these truths. Some people call it external moral order. Just as 1 + 1 = 2 doesn't require someone to make it so and just as it isn't opinion but truth. Determining moral truth can be hard, of course.

Really? And Who comes up with these "moral truths?" Man? Ha. You have to be kidding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's all I want to say. I don't have faith although I have a fondness for the religion I was raised with. I believe in a moral order. If your faith guides and supports you, that's terrific. We don't have to be at odds.

What's "moral order"?

I believe there are moral truths, such as the immorality of murdering a human being is most circumstances, and I, like many, do not think you need a supreme being to hand down these truths. Some people call it external moral order. Just as 1 + 1 = 2 doesn't require someone to make it so and just as it isn't opinion but truth. Determining moral truth can be hard, of course.

Really? And Who comes up with these "moral truths?" Man? Ha. You have to be kidding.

humans do have an inherent sense of morality - it's evolutionary and exists in other animals as well. Other primates, for instance, (who don't have religion), protect each other and shame those who do notuphold group norms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's all I want to say. I don't have faith although I have a fondness for the religion I was raised with. I believe in a moral order. If your faith guides and supports you, that's terrific. We don't have to be at odds.

What's "moral order"?

I believe there are moral truths, such as the immorality of murdering a human being is most circumstances, and I, like many, do not think you need a supreme being to hand down these truths. Some people call it external moral order. Just as 1 + 1 = 2 doesn't require someone to make it so and just as it isn't opinion but truth. Determining moral truth can be hard, of course.

Really? And Who comes up with these "moral truths?" Man? Ha. You have to be kidding.

humans do have an inherent sense of morality - it's evolutionary and exists in other animals as well. Other primates, for instance, (who don't have religion), protect each other and shame those who do notuphold group norms.

Yes, well, humans have repeatedly proved to be an exception to your moral-primate rule. The idea that any sense of morality humans have is "inherent" is laughable. Unlike other primates, humans have to be taught how to walk and toilet themselves. You really think they could figure out the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" thing on their own?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's all I want to say. I don't have faith although I have a fondness for the religion I was raised with. I believe in a moral order. If your faith guides and supports you, that's terrific. We don't have to be at odds.

What's "moral order"?

I believe there are moral truths, such as the immorality of murdering a human being is most circumstances, and I, like many, do not think you need a supreme being to hand down these truths. Some people call it external moral order. Just as 1 + 1 = 2 doesn't require someone to make it so and just as it isn't opinion but truth. Determining moral truth can be hard, of course.

Really? And Who comes up with these "moral truths?" Man? Ha. You have to be kidding.

humans do have an inherent sense of morality - it's evolutionary and exists in other animals as well. Other primates, for instance, (who don't have religion), protect each other and shame those who do notuphold group norms.

Yes, well, humans have repeatedly proved to be an exception to your moral-primate rule. The idea that any sense of morality humans have is "inherent" is laughable. Unlike other primates, humans have to be taught how to walk and toilet themselves. You really think they could figure out the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" thing on their own?

Yes, because other primates figured it out -- in a crude fashion, yes, but they get the idea that such behavior helps the group survive.

PS - dogs can be taught to "toilet themselves"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's all I want to say. I don't have faith although I have a fondness for the religion I was raised with. I believe in a moral order. If your faith guides and supports you, that's terrific. We don't have to be at odds.

What's "moral order"?

I believe there are moral truths, such as the immorality of murdering a human being is most circumstances, and I, like many, do not think you need a supreme being to hand down these truths. Some people call it external moral order. Just as 1 + 1 = 2 doesn't require someone to make it so and just as it isn't opinion but truth. Determining moral truth can be hard, of course.

Really? And Who comes up with these "moral truths?" Man? Ha. You have to be kidding.

humans do have an inherent sense of morality - it's evolutionary and exists in other animals as well. Other primates, for instance, (who don't have religion), protect each other and shame those who do notuphold group norms.

Yes, well, humans have repeatedly proved to be an exception to your moral-primate rule. The idea that any sense of morality humans have is "inherent" is laughable. Unlike other primates, humans have to be taught how to walk and toilet themselves. You really think they could figure out the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" thing on their own?

Yes, because other primates figured it out -- in a crude fashion, yes, but they get the idea that such behavior helps the group survive.

PS - dogs can be taught to "toilet themselves"

NP. Bonobos are all about "do unto others." All the other ape families, not so much. In fact the word "vicious" often describes interactions within other primate clans. Stop making stuff up.

[Anonymous]

Basic ETHICS is what really matters in any civilized society.

Who cares about your personal beliefs? No one. They can change with the wind. Who cares?

Again, basic ethics is all that really matters for civilized people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's all I want to say. I don't have faith although I have a fondness for the religion I was raised with. I believe in a moral order. If your faith guides and supports you, that's terrific. We don't have to be at odds.

What's "moral order"?

I believe there are moral truths, such as the immorality of murdering a human being is most circumstances, and I, like many, do not think you need a supreme being to hand down these truths. Some people call it external moral order. Just as 1 + 1 = 2 doesn't require someone to make it so and just as it isn't opinion but truth. Determining moral truth can be hard, of course.

Really? And Who comes up with these "moral truths?" Man? Ha. You have to be kidding.

humans do have an inherent sense of morality - it's evolutionary and exists in other animals as well. Other primates, for instance, (who don't have religion), protect each other and shame those who do notuphold group norms.

Yes, well, humans have repeatedly proved to be an exception to your moral-primate rule. The idea that any sense of morality humans have is "inherent" is laughable. Unlike other primates, humans have to be taught how to walk and toilet themselves. You really think they could figure out the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" thing on their own?

Yes, because other primates figured it out -- in a crude fashion, yes, but they get the idea that such behavior helps the group survive.

PS - dogs can be taught to "toilet themselves"

NP. Bonobos are all about "do unto others." All the other ape families, not so much. In fact the word "vicious" often describes interactions within other primate clans. Stop making stuff up.

Nothing made up, bonobos are primates. So are humans, who can be vicious too, and are commanded to be vicious in some Bible stories.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's all I want to say. I don't have faith although I have a fondness for the religion I was raised with. I believe in a moral order. If your faith guides and supports you, that's terrific. We don't have to be at odds.

What's "moral order"?

I believe there are moral truths, such as the immorality of murdering a human being is most circumstances, and I, like many, do not think you need a supreme being to hand down these truths. Some people call it external moral order. Just as 1 + 1 = 2 doesn't require someone to make it so and just as it isn't opinion but truth. Determining moral truth can be hard, of course.

Really? And Who comes up with these "moral truths?" Man? Ha. You have to be kidding.

humans do have an inherent sense of morality - it's evolutionary and exists in other animals as well. Other primates, for instance, (who don't have religion), protect each other and shame those who do notuphold group norms.

Yes, well, humans have repeatedly proved to be an exception to your moral-primate rule. The idea that any sense of morality humans have is "inherent" is laughable. Unlike other primates, humans have to be taught how to walk and toilet themselves. You really think they could figure out the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" thing on their own?

Yes, because other primates figured it out -- in a crude fashion, yes, but they get the idea that such behavior helps the group survive.

PS - dogs can be taught to "toilet themselves"

NP. Bonobos are all about "do unto others." All the other ape families, not so much. In fact the word "vicious" often describes interactions within other primate clans. Stop making stuff up.

Nothing made up, bonobos are primates. So are humans, who can be vicious too, and are commanded to be vicious in some Bible stories.

Major logic fail. Or troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Basic ETHICS is what really matters in any civilized society.

Who cares about your personal beliefs? No one. They can change with the wind. Who cares?

Again, basic ethics is all that really matters for civilized people.

Yes. And ethics come from God, eg the 10 commandments

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Basic ETHICS is what really matters in any civilized society.

Who cares about your personal beliefs? No one. They can change with the wind. Who cares?

Again, basic ethics is all that really matters for civilized people.

Yes. And ethics come from God, eg the 10 commandments

Humans had ethics long before the 10 commandments came along

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That's all I want to say. I don't have faith although I have a fondness for the religion I was raised with. I believe in a moral order. If your faith guides and supports you, that's terrific. We don't have to be at odds.

Where does "moral order" come from and why should we follow it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's all I want to say. I don't have faith although I have a fondness for the religion I was raised with. I believe in a moral order. If your faith guides and supports you, that's terrific. We don't have to be at odds.

Where does "moral order" come from and why should we follow it?

from an invisible person in the sky and we should follow it because he said so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's all I want to say. I don't have faith although I have a fondness for the religion I was raised with. I believe in a moral order. If your faith guides and supports you, that's terrific. We don't have to be at odds.

Where does "moral order" come from and why should we follow it?

from an invisible person in the sky and we should follow it because he said so.

That's more plausible than the evolutionary answer, which reduces morality to opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's all I want to say. I don't have faith although I have a fondness for the religion I was raised with. I believe in a moral order. If your faith guides and supports you, that's terrific. We don't have to be at odds.

Where does "moral order" come from and why should we follow it?

from an invisible person in the sky and we should follow it because he said so.

That's more plausible than the evolutionary answer, which reduces morality to opinion.

From an invisible person on another planet and we should follow it because she said so. (according to pp this would be more plausible than evolution)