Workload at Richard Montgomery IB magnet program

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a great thread to read today...

-a parent who is not sure that she wants her child to get in to a magnet.

That it is.
I have a smart girl and when she was applying for high schools I called some parents of kids in various public magnet programs.
One mom told me that the 'special program' at our local high school wasn't good enough because the kids 'have time for things like sports' whereas in the magnet programs they don't. What? I was shocked at how these parents thought their child being stressed out and overwhelmed was the ultimate badge of honor.
Another program (not a magnet) was described as a 'full time job' with papers 'of length rather than substance' that needed to be churned out every day.
Kind of like having a bad desk job as an adult? She said her child needed a gap year and some meds to recover from the stress.

We ended up sending DD to a private school that has a great program but that has learned to scale down the excessive work so that there is balance.
It's been great for her.
I wonder why some of the public programs don't consider this? Is it because the parents would wig out about the lack of work?

It's not a race - kids don't have to do college level work starting at age 13 so that college is easy. Not only that but you have a lot more free time in college as you are never in classes from 8-2 every day (it's more like 11-1).

Although the RM IB Magnet is a program within a public school, you have to understand that the rigorous workload is because of the International Baccalaureate's specific course requirements, not because the school in and of itself demands this of students. Teachers aren't just making it hard for the sake of it - they're adhering to a specific program, philosophy, and thus that program's assessment requirements. That said, yes, it is quite an intense program; I've seen students soar and excel, and I've seen others crash and burn due to the excessive workload and pressure from being in the program. However, the fact that we have the Middle Years Programme in grades 9 and 10 does help prepare students for the rigors of the Diploma Programme in grades 11 and 12.

- Teacher of an IB Arts class at RM

[Anonymous]

I was in the IB program in the early '00s and did not spend 4-5 hours on HW a night. Maybe once in a while but it was by no means routine. I didn't do a sport but I did play an instrument at a high level and had associated activities 2-3 days a week. I did usually try to start homework by working through lunch (and eating), which my friends did as well, but I never stayed up past midnight. I graduated with mostly A's and went to a very good SLAC. It was a lot of work but I never felt like it was unmanageable. High school was the best 4 years of my life and the peer group was fantastic.

Some kids did leave after 9th or 10th but it's really an individual fit. I do agree that it definitely needs to be your child's decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was in the IB program in the early '00s and did not spend 4-5 hours on HW a night. Maybe once in a while but it was by no means routine. I didn't do a sport but I did play an instrument at a high level and had associated activities 2-3 days a week. I did usually try to start homework by working through lunch (and eating), which my friends did as well, but I never stayed up past midnight. I graduated with mostly A's and went to a very good SLAC. It was a lot of work but I never felt like it was unmanageable. High school was the best 4 years of my life and the peer group was fantastic.

Some kids did leave after 9th or 10th but it's really an individual fit. I do agree that it definitely needs to be your child's decision.

This is good to hear. I was skeptical that every kid needs to study 4-5 hours a night. It seems like the program is good for the right kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what do you mean by missing out on the high school experience? Would a student have enough time for an extracurricular activity (sports, theater, orchestra, whatever) if they are in the program?

Yes, I was wondering what this means too. I'm not too worried about my kid missing out on the "social scene" of high school, if that means parties and hanging out. I do, however, want my kid to have friends, and to be able to do things like sports or other fun interests. I am also concerned about stress, lack of sleep, and health issues. How did the PPs who graduated from the program feel about the stress, lack of sleep, etc? Were you "hating life" in high school because of the pressure of the program?

I think these kids become adept in making time for fun. If an exam finishes early, they go and have lunch in a restaurant before heading home. Birthdays and stuff get celebrated but the invites go out weeks in advance - because people are super busy with studies or with EC activities. My DD went to all the homecoming dances and her senior prom and it was planned months in advance. However, they do not have time to hang out every day. It becomes more like the social scene of a full time working adult who is a single parent of 3 kids under five years. Things need to be planned wayyyy in advance, and academic work has to be finished in advance to make leisure activity with friends happen. This is not how typical HS kids roll.

The usual hs drama of having cliques is not there because no one really have the time to waste. Magnet kids tend to get along with everyone in the program. My DD friends were supportive and really a good bunch of kids. I also liked all the parents because they were there to offer rides etc when needed. I do not think these kids are "hating life" in HS. I think the closest analogy I would use that if HS was like joining the NAVY, the magnet programs are like being recruited into the highly specialized Navy Seals. It is different and more gruelling training. However, just like the Seals, these kids have been chosen because they can handle the rigor. There is a sense of camaraderie between these kids because they all are in the same boat. It is also a super smart and sharp set of kids. Their academic and EC achievements are mind boggling.

Sleep deprivation and stress can be a real issue. So, parents need to make sure that they are being somewhat of a sleep nazi and making sure that the lights are out at a reasonable time (maybe midnight or 1 am). Make sure that they catch up on sleep during weekends. Stress is usually a result of not steller time management and parental pressure. The workload is what it is (brutal), but if parents are hoping for straight As all the time - that's not gonna happen.

As parents we did small things for my child that could make life somewhat easier for her. We drove her to school each day so could catch some extra zzzs. Her siblings took over chores that she used to do previously...stuff like that.

[Anonymous]

Sobering thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a great thread to read today...

-a parent who is not sure that she wants her child to get in to a magnet.

That it is.
I have a smart girl and when she was applying for high schools I called some parents of kids in various public magnet programs.
One mom told me that the 'special program' at our local high school wasn't good enough because the kids 'have time for things like sports' whereas in the magnet programs they don't. What? I was shocked at how these parents thought their child being stressed out and overwhelmed was the ultimate badge of honor.
Another program (not a magnet) was described as a 'full time job' with papers 'of length rather than substance' that needed to be churned out every day.
Kind of like having a bad desk job as an adult? She said her child needed a gap year and some meds to recover from the stress.

We ended up sending DD to a private school that has a great program but that has learned to scale down the excessive work so that there is balance.
It's been great for her.
I wonder why some of the public programs don't consider this? Is it because the parents would wig out about the lack of work?

It's not a race - kids don't have to do college level work starting at age 13 so that college is easy. Not only that but you have a lot more free time in college as you are never in classes from 8-2 every day (it's more like 11-1).

Although the RM IB Magnet is a program within a public school, you have to understand that the rigorous workload is because of the International Baccalaureate's specific course requirements, not because the school in and of itself demands this of students. Teachers aren't just making it hard for the sake of it - they're adhering to a specific program, philosophy, and thus that program's assessment requirements. That said, yes, it is quite an intense program; I've seen students soar and excel, and I've seen others crash and burn due to the excessive workload and pressure from being in the program. However, the fact that we have the Middle Years Programme in grades 9 and 10 does help prepare students for the rigors of the Diploma Programme in grades 11 and 12.

- Teacher of an IB Arts class at RM

PP - Sounds like change needs to come from the IB program then.

Husband and I both have grad degrees - phD and masters. One in science, one in social science.
Creativity and original thought require some free time to think and that's what is ultimately important. If these programs were still rigorous but some of the daily work was decreased it would be much better.

[Anonymous]

What are the entrance requirements to the IB program, if a child comes in from a private school, or from a British school, for example? Do the entrance exams vary, or kids just take a generic test? Thank you!

[Anonymous]

We loved it. I think it's the best thing out if your child is able to keep up.

@10:20 - everyone uses the same app process unless you live within RM zone. In that case, you can use MYP route as someone above stated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What are the entrance requirements to the IB program, if a child comes in from a private school, or from a British school, for example? Do the entrance exams vary, or kids just take a generic test? Thank you!

Everyone takes the same test..

[Anonymous]

NP. Here's the thing. My child is smart and all thru ES and MS she was a straight A student with barely doing much work. Of course she seemed like a candidate as well as many of her friends. Thing problem is schooling before is way too easy. HGC was easy and she chose not to go to a magnet to stay with friends. She didn't like HGC because she didn't feel that school spirit and friendship she craved. I am pretty sure she had a good chance of getting in IB but the results are fickle and I know she liked being somewhat social. I think she would have gotten depressed at IB. So she and I chose not to apply. She had multiple friends that chose to. Four got in and two didn't. One of the ones that didn't get in was by far the smartest in the group and was self reliant. Everyone was shocked. Three of the four kids accepted were helicopter kids. Parents that pushed, probably helped with assignments and projects, essays and have their kids lives carved out. Fast forward a year and the only child not struggling is the one out of four who WANTS to do good on her own, challenges herself and is not only book smart but has incredible time management skills. Her parents are not involved AT ALL. Two of the other kids received mostly C's and even a D, the other is getting B's and C's and is holding her own with tutors and outside help.

My point being is this program is for those above and beyond gifted AND have meticulous organization skills and time management. The ones that barely had to study for any test. Naturally smart. Common sense and WANTS to push themselves and craves that challenge daily. Who would be depressed without the work and challenges. Who wouldn't be social and want to go to dances, weeknight games or get involved with much of anything outside of school anyway. I am not talking about parties but all that comes with high school.

I just think too many parents see their kids tracking high in school and are having an easy time with a pretty easy curriculum and assume their kids will be up for the IB challenge. But you need to step back and look at how much you have helped, how much you encouraged/push, etc.. and be honest with if this type of atmosphere would be more of a positive or negative. And do you and your child want it for the right reasons. Are you looking for bragging rights, a possible scholarship, Ivy League? Those aren't guaranteed. Would you happy without just to have the challenge?

Many many factors to consider

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what do you mean by missing out on the high school experience? Would a student have enough time for an extracurricular activity (sports, theater, orchestra, whatever) if they are in the program?

Yes, I was wondering what this means too. I'm not too worried about my kid missing out on the "social scene" of high school, if that means parties and hanging out. I do, however, want my kid to have friends, and to be able to do things like sports or other fun interests. I am also concerned about stress, lack of sleep, and health issues. How did the PPs who graduated from the program feel about the stress, lack of sleep, etc? Were you "hating life" in high school because of the pressure of the program?

8:29 here---what I mean by missing out on the HS experience is that I never had time just to go hang out with my friends. Everything in my life was scheduled. If something was late, it caused a cascading effect. If practice ran over, I had to leave. Sorry--the practice said 4-6pm and I have to meet a friend for a project starting at 6:30. There just wasn't any downtime. If something came up for a Sat, chances are I couldn't go because I would have already had commitments. Planning your work load is critical and knowing that you need to start something 3-4 weeks in advance because you have another paper, 3 tests, a project, plus homework means that just hanging out with your friends isn't really an option. Going to a Friday night football game was a treat and and factored into the scheduling calendar. That was 3 hours that I wasn't being "productive". Same for going to the school play.

By the end of my senior year, I hated HS. The demands were overwhelming. When I got to college, academically I just shut down. I couldn't do it any more. I just didn't have it in me. I got used to the lack of sleep. And on the nights when I would crash, it was hard. I would sleep for hours and then panic because I would have screwed up my schedule and now I was behind and running late which then led me to stay up late that night to get back on track. Which negates the sleeping.

Stress wise--I didn't feel stress as we know it today. There was a lot of pressure to keep up with your classmates and the workload. I started in 10th grade and I just didn't know any different. I guess I just believed that that's what HS was like for everyone.

Thank you so much for this very very helpful insight.

[Anonymous]

Sort of a spin-off (and frankly, given the comments above, I question whether this would be a good fit for my DC):

RM is our home HS and my understanding is that even if DC doesn't test into the IB magnet in 9th & 10th, it is possible to be in IB in 11th and 12th without a test. Is that the same 11th & 12th IB that the magnet kids are in from 9th grade or is it a different track? And how difficult is it to get into IB on the non-magnet route? TIA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sort of a spin-off (and frankly, given the comments above, I question whether this would be a good fit for my DC):

RM is our home HS and my understanding is that even if DC doesn't test into the IB magnet in 9th & 10th, it is possible to be in IB in 11th and 12th without a test. Is that the same 11th & 12th IB that the magnet kids are in from 9th grade or is it a different track? And how difficult is it to get into IB on the non-magnet route? TIA.

You are correct. If RM is your home school, your kid does not have to "test" into the magnet. They are at a slight disadvantage if they didn't take "magnet" classes in grades 9 & 10, but given that ALL RM students are part of the Middle Years Programme in grades 9 & 10, many students who did not test into the magnet (either because they took the test and didn't get in or because the never took the test at all) go into the Diploma Programme and do quite well. Some of them are my former and even current students.

[Anonymous]

It is the same magnet and there is not much involved aside from successfully completing the MYP program in 10th grade. There is not much competition. About 20-25 kids opt to do it each year. Kind of ridiculous there is so much competition for 9th grade spots and then the door is fairly wide open in 11th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a great thread to read today...

-a parent who is not sure that she wants her child to get in to a magnet.

That it is.
I have a smart girl and when she was applying for high schools I called some parents of kids in various public magnet programs.
One mom told me that the 'special program' at our local high school wasn't good enough because the kids 'have time for things like sports' whereas in the magnet programs they don't. What? I was shocked at how these parents thought their child being stressed out and overwhelmed was the ultimate badge of honor.
Another program (not a magnet) was described as a 'full time job' with papers 'of length rather than substance' that needed to be churned out every day.
Kind of like having a bad desk job as an adult? She said her child needed a gap year and some meds to recover from the stress.

We ended up sending DD to a private school that has a great program but that has learned to scale down the excessive work so that there is balance.
It's been great for her.
I wonder why some of the public programs don't consider this? Is it because the parents would wig out about the lack of work?



It's not a race - kids don't have to do college level work starting at age 13 so that college is easy. Not only that but you have a lot more free time in college as you are never in classes from 8-2 every day (it's more like 11-1).

Although the RM IB Magnet is a program within a public school, you have to understand that the rigorous workload is because of the International Baccalaureate's specific course requirements, not because the school in and of itself demands this of students. Teachers aren't just making it hard for the sake of it - they're adhering to a specific program, philosophy, and thus that program's assessment requirements. That said, yes, it is quite an intense program; I've seen students soar and excel, and I've seen others crash and burn due to the excessive workload and pressure from being in the program. However, the fact that we have the Middle Years Programme in grades 9 and 10 does help prepare students for the rigors of the Diploma Programme in grades 11 and 12.

- Teacher of an IB Arts class at RM

PP - Sounds like change needs to come from the IB program then.

Husband and I both have grad degrees - phD and masters. One in science, one in social science.
Creativity and original thought require some free time to think and that's what is ultimately important. If these programs were still rigorous but some of the daily work was decreased it would be much better.

9:43 here. I agree that creativity and original though require free time, but as many PPs here have stated, being in the DP is a balance of being a smart student and also managing time effectively. It's possible to excel and enjoy yourself if you do not procrastinate. And much of our time for exploration and discovery is built into class activities and exercises.