Any other doctors thinking of calling it quits?

[Anonymous]

I would echo what some of the other PPs say about going part-time or switching to a different model of practice (one that doesn't accept insurance, one that offers the option of declining calls, etc.) before giving up your career. That is a pretty drastic move, particularly for a physician who has to take boards and to keep up with changes in medical literature and learning. You don't say what type of doctor you are, but there are options out there, even in this dire age of HMOs running the show. Good luck to you, and I hope that you don't leave the practice altogether!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, do you REALLY think that the mall retail worker makes more money than you? She probably has no health insurance. And here you are griping about health care reform. Get real.

Not the OP, but I think the OP was just venting about how people who have invested less money and time into their education can make more money than a doctor.

One example that comes to my mind is realtors. Our realtor makes a TON of money. And, she invests in real estate also. She'll be doing much better than my DH and I (2 professionals who went to grad school).

[Anonymous]

op, what is your area of practice? can you take a pay cut for better quality of life?

if so, i'd look into some of the non-profit clinics (community health centers, FQHCs) in the area. the docs make 6 figures and they have reasonable clinic hours. best of all--they do not handle any of the insurance/billing issues whatsoever. the patients don't have insurance or they have public insurance or are on grants and other forms of assistance. in any case, the clinic adminstration handles that, not the docs. these clinics often also have other departments in-house that can offer support to your patients (dental, nutrition, mental health, substance abuse)--the availabiliy of these services might make you feel better about the way your patients are being served, even if your time with them is limited.

also, a lot of these clinics have a fair amount of money flowing in from the Fed or the city/state in order to make improvements. the DC CHCs, for example, all now utilize state of the art electronic health record software.

[Anonymous]

OP -- look into working for a federal agency as a medical officer, or at a veteran's hospital or at one of the military hospitals. All offer great pay and normal hours. Another option is one of the "free" clinics, as suggested by a previous poster. Another thought is working for a nursing home or assisted living facility. I just got an ad in the mail from a search firm looking for FPs and internists for (I think) Riderwood Village, a senior living facility, that boasted 30 minute visits and none of the insurance crap.
Also, what about doing urgent care or doing prn hospitalist work? Or working for student health at one of the local colleges?
I'm an internist who left practice for the reasons you cite. There are lots of options for you that don't require completely leaving medicine.
Check the Washington POst and NEJM ads too. I often see ads for jobs that offer regular hours.

[Anonymous]

This post is just sad. Doctors have to go through so much school and so much training they SHOULD be well-paid. Heck, they should be rich when it is all said and done.

I've had some really bad doctors, now I know why. It sounds like the profession either just beats you down or drives you out.

[Anonymous]

It isn't smart to go into medicine for the $$. Some medical specialties do make big money but they are harder and more competitive. With every profession there is a range of salaries, level of competition (how good you need to be), and amount of work involved. Not all lawyers make six figures nor could all lawyers make seven figures if they just worked more.

Peds, psych and internal medicine, I believe make the least but they also are not as difficult as say neurosurgery. You could try working at a hospital as a staff doctor. I don't believe these doctors need to deal with the office admin and insurance issues the way private practice do. If you are not making much working in a private practice anyway you could also try finding work at a clinic for lower income patients. The pay would still be low but it could be rewarding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, do you REALLY think that the mall retail worker makes more money than you? She probably has no health insurance. And here you are griping about health care reform. Get real.

Not the OP, but I think the OP was just venting about how people who have invested less money and time into their education can make more money than a doctor.

One example that comes to my mind is realtors. Our realtor makes a TON of money. And, she invests in real estate also. She'll be doing much better than my DH and I (2 professionals who went to grad school).

The OP actually makes a good point. I used to work for an insurance company in customer service. I have seen claims that have been denied, and they were denied in such a way that the provider couldn't legally bill the patient for the services. So the Dr didn't receive any payment for seeing this patient.

I have seen expensive chemo drugs with an allowed amount of $.27. The provider calling, begging for the drug cost to be covered, and for us to not even worry about paying them for the professional fees (we denied those).

So, you see, the person at the mall piercing ears, at least has a guaranteed payment for the procedure she does.

[Anonymous]

OP have you considered moving to a an area with smaller towns and fewer doctors? The DC area has one of the highest densities of doctors around. Unlike many of the better paying professions that really require you to be in a major metropolitan area or regional specific area, doctors are employed all over the country. The pay may be slighly less but the cost of living can be substantially lower. We'd love to move to the midwest or someplace where everyone leaves work at 5 and a 4 bedroom house costs $250,000 but our jobs don't exist there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, do you REALLY think that the mall retail worker makes more money than you? She probably has no health insurance. And here you are griping about health care reform. Get real.

Not the OP, but I think the OP was just venting about how people who have invested less money and time into their education can make more money than a doctor.

One example that comes to my mind is realtors. Our realtor makes a TON of money. And, she invests in real estate also. She'll be doing much better than my DH and I (2 professionals who went to grad school).

Not these days, she doesn't!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not the OP, but cut her some slack. Medical school costs a couple hundred thousand $$$. Not to mention 7 years of school, training, a big chunk of most people's 20s. Why do you assume she was only talking about money?

After investing all that money in time, she has a right to expect she may have a rewarding career and at least be well compensated for the long hours and time away from family. I find it hard to believe you wouldn't expect the same.

I agree completely. Most people go into whatever career they chose to earn a decent salary and get some satisfaction from their work. If you're working and not getting paid, it's called volunteering. Totally different from a career.

Doctors are no different. They work hard and go through years of school expecting to get paid a decent salary after graduation. Same as accountants, lawyers, plumbers, etc.

SOME doctors are no different. But some are, and they are the best of the best. I switched my DC from an upscale practice in Chevy Chase to the medicaid doctor my foster child was seeing. There is a world of difference in their offices -- one is 'decorated' with antiques and filled with light, and the other just has a tiny waiting room with no windows and a bunch of toys (you can guess which is which). The medicaid doctor is by far the best doctor I have EVER been to. He remembers us every time we go into his office, he talks to me at length about both kids. He has charged me $17 for shots for my son, even though he is not on medicaid. He is a great doctor and well-suited to being one, too. He is not rich. Medicine is a caring profession. We as patients can all tell the difference when we have a doctor who is in it for the $ or in it because it is a caring profession. As patients, we all deserve the latter. What that means to a doctor who is in it for the $$ is not my problem.

[Anonymous]

OP--my brothers father in law left his own practice because of all the nonsense and is now working at a VA hospital-he still doesn't make a lot of money but has good hours and doesn't have to deal with all the liability. I fear that you are just the beginning of really smart people deciding against medicine since there is a war on your profits. I would be happy for you to make millions..you are obviously brighter than most and have studied hard. You are not going to get a lot of pity from folks around here since it's "terrible" to be rich. If I were you, I might try and go into another area of speciality that doesn't take insurance--is this possible at this point?? Maybe dermatology?? Maybe be a consultant for all the people who are suing docs..you could be an expert witness of course that might make you sick

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP--my brothers father in law left his own practice because of all the nonsense and is now working at a VA hospital-he still doesn't make a lot of money but has good hours and doesn't have to deal with all the liability. I fear that you are just the beginning of really smart people deciding against medicine since there is a war on your profits. I would be happy for you to make millions..you are obviously brighter than most and have studied hard. You are not going to get a lot of pity from folks around here since it's "terrible" to be rich. If I were you, I might try and go into another area of speciality that doesn't take insurance--is this possible at this point?? Maybe dermatology?? Maybe be a consultant for all the people who are suing docs..you could be an expert witness of course that might make you sick

It's not terrible to be rich. But do you really want your doctor thinking about $$$ when he or she's treating you? Do you really want a doctor who treast only those who can afford to pay out of pocket?

[Anonymous]

This thread makes it sound like all the disgruntled physicians are complaining about how little money they make.

I'm married to an internist and the money (or lack there of) is actually the LEAST of the sources of his disastisfaction (and that of pretty much all of his colleagues. What drives physicians out of the profession is the quality of life of the job.
Working like a dog (no lunch breaks, no bathroom breaks) for 60-70 hours a week PLUS nighttime and weekend call. Seeing 25-40 patients a day---many who are disgruntled themselves because they feel the strain of a physician who has been given exactly 5 minutes to see them.

This is the reward of spending $250,000 on a medical school education and 7+ years of training (of 80 hour work weeks).

My husband LOVES medicine but the lifestyle is slowly killing him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
SOME doctors are no different. But some are, and they are the best of the best. I switched my DC from an upscale practice in Chevy Chase to the medicaid doctor my foster child was seeing. There is a world of difference in their offices -- one is 'decorated' with antiques and filled with light, and the other just has a tiny waiting room with no windows and a bunch of toys (you can guess which is which). The medicaid doctor is by far the best doctor I have EVER been to. He remembers us every time we go into his office, he talks to me at length about both kids. He has charged me $17 for shots for my son, even though he is not on medicaid. He is a great doctor and well-suited to being one, too. He is not rich. Medicine is a caring profession. We as patients can all tell the difference when we have a doctor who is in it for the $ or in it because it is a caring profession. As patients, we all deserve the latter. What that means to a doctor who is in it for the $$ is not my problem.

Is he an older doctor? Recent graduates have a ton of debt (unless med school was paid for by their parents, etc). It is difficult to afford a mortgage in this area (even on a medium sized home), pay off student loans, and pay for general living expenses on $17/shots.

Someone more established, without student loan debt, a home mortgage, a practice loan, etc. can make it work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
So, you see, the person at the mall piercing ears, at least has a guaranteed payment for the procedure she does.

Along those lines.... The person at the mall piercing ears gets paid after each piercing. She doesn't have to send a bill to an insurance company. She doesn't have to wait months for payment. She doesn't have to agree to only pierce 1 ear per person per year, because that is all the insurance company with cover.