Obama/Volkswagen

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

MikeL wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Defective ignition switches and software designed for the explicit purpose of circumventing federal emissions regulations are entirely different from the standpoint of federal regulators. There is a NHTSA recall system and GM agreed to pay a $35 million fine. This of course does does not absolve the company of liability for damages in civil claims.

You're making far too much sense for the Tea Party type that started this thread to understand what you're typing.

Again, the problem is Federal emissions regulations to begin with. And Obama's personal beef with Volkswagen.

What's your basis for your assertion that Obama has a personal beef with Volkswagen? Just that they oppose clean air regulations? Um, that would describe every auto company in the world, duh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I knew there had to be more to the recalls - to destroy a company using global warming as an excuse is hella bullshit. This is really about unions and revenge over Volkswagen not supporting Obama's green agenda:

http://www.autonews.com/article/20140214/OEM01/140219901/obama-weighs-in-on-contentious-union-vote-at-volkswagen-plant

http://dailycaller.com/2015/10/13/volkswagen-lobbied-obama-administration-for-green-tax-credits/

Yet GM, aka 'Government Motors' recall of their ignition switches directly led to the deaths of people, and escaped with a fine and no charges filed.


Just gross.

Big Business breaks the law; Republican shill blames Obama. Just another Monday.

There's your issue right there. The ridiculous legislation.

Think of a buffet. In Constitutional Republic allows you to go to many buffets with many choices. The business owner has freedom to choose what's on his/her buffet and to change it at will. With Communism, there is one type of buffet with the same food choices. Don't complain; you might 'disappear'. With democratic socialism, there are many buffets (come privately owned, some government-owned) with many choices, but those choices are heavily regulated, i.e. you can serve only foods that are deemed healthy and/or approved to serve.

Is this a joke? Are you not familiar with the concept of externalities in economics. If you are, the you should realize that air pollution standards are fully consistent with capitalism.

I merely described the differences between the types of government, and how progressives are indeed socialists.

You may think that's what you described, but what you in fact described was a dumbed-down delusional alternate reality. But enjoy your incoherent rant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

MikeL wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Defective ignition switches and software designed for the explicit purpose of circumventing federal emissions regulations are entirely different from the standpoint of federal regulators. There is a NHTSA recall system and GM agreed to pay a $35 million fine. This of course does does not absolve the company of liability for damages in civil claims.

You're making far too much sense for the Tea Party type that started this thread to understand what you're typing.

Again, the problem is Federal emissions regulations to begin with. And Obama's personal beef with Volkswagen.

What is your problem with Federal emissions regulations? (I mean, to the extent you know anything about them.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I knew there had to be more to the recalls - to destroy a company using global warming as an excuse is hella bullshit. This is really about unions and revenge over Volkswagen not supporting Obama's green agenda:

http://www.autonews.com/article/20140214/OEM01/140219901/obama-weighs-in-on-contentious-union-vote-at-volkswagen-plant

http://dailycaller.com/2015/10/13/volkswagen-lobbied-obama-administration-for-green-tax-credits/

Yet GM, aka 'Government Motors' recall of their ignition switches directly led to the deaths of people, and escaped with a fine and no charges filed.


Just gross.

Big Business breaks the law; Republican shill blames Obama. Just another Monday.

There's your issue right there. The ridiculous legislation.

Think of a buffet. In Constitutional Republic allows you to go to many buffets with many choices. The business owner has freedom to choose what's on his/her buffet and to change it at will. With Communism, there is one type of buffet with the same food choices. Don't complain; you might 'disappear'. With democratic socialism, there are many buffets (come privately owned, some government-owned) with many choices, but those choices are heavily regulated, i.e. you can serve only foods that are deemed healthy and/or approved to serve.

Sigh. How to explain an externality to someone who views governments in terms of buffets.

[b]When you burn a gallon of gas, you pollute the air, water, and land that belong to all of us. Therefore you owe us an amount of money equal to what it takes to clean it. We could just put a tax on a gallon of gasoline equal to what it takes to clean up the pollution it produces. Then we would not need to regulate fuel efficiency. Let's just say the price of the buffet needs to cover the repair to the toilet you clog afterward.

But you would go apeshit if you had to pay the real cost of fuel including environmental cleanup. So we compromise and ask auto makers to ever-so-gradually improve fuel efficiency. You should be damn glad, too. Because the fuel cost of that Suburban you drive would skyrocket if the rest of the world wasn't driving Camrys and Civics.

So yes, it is only ridiculous to the extent that it's a poor substitute for the indisputable economic principle of taxing gas to pay for the externality.

There's regulation and there's over-regulation. Progressives like Obama tell you what's good for you and that you need to comply because they say it's good for you and the environment (think Bloomberg and the soda and salt regulations). So it's their way or the highway. One of the Scandinavian countries (I believe Denmark?) have some pretty interesting issues regarding coercion/mental illness and as socialism creeps into this country, we are seeing a trend towards the same.

[Anonymous]

Never mind Obama is again picking and choosing which laws he wants to enforce and which to ignore. He was no less deceitful re: Obamacare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

MikeL wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Defective ignition switches and software designed for the explicit purpose of circumventing federal emissions regulations are entirely different from the standpoint of federal regulators. There is a NHTSA recall system and GM agreed to pay a $35 million fine. This of course does does not absolve the company of liability for damages in civil claims.

You're making far too much sense for the Tea Party type that started this thread to understand what you're typing.

Again, the problem is Federal emissions regulations to begin with. And Obama's personal beef with Volkswagen.

What is your problem with Federal emissions regulations? (I mean, to the extent you know anything about them.)

That they being used as a political sledgehammer to beat a company into submission?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I knew there had to be more to the recalls - to destroy a company using global warming as an excuse is hella bullshit. This is really about unions and revenge over Volkswagen not supporting Obama's green agenda:

http://www.autonews.com/article/20140214/OEM01/140219901/obama-weighs-in-on-contentious-union-vote-at-volkswagen-plant

http://dailycaller.com/2015/10/13/volkswagen-lobbied-obama-administration-for-green-tax-credits/

Yet GM, aka 'Government Motors' recall of their ignition switches directly led to the deaths of people, and escaped with a fine and no charges filed.


Just gross.

Big Business breaks the law; Republican shill blames Obama. Just another Monday.

There's your issue right there. The ridiculous legislation.

Think of a buffet. In Constitutional Republic allows you to go to many buffets with many choices. The business owner has freedom to choose what's on his/her buffet and to change it at will. With Communism, there is one type of buffet with the same food choices. Don't complain; you might 'disappear'. With democratic socialism, there are many buffets (come privately owned, some government-owned) with many choices, but those choices are heavily regulated, i.e. you can serve only foods that are deemed healthy and/or approved to serve.

Is this a joke? Are you not familiar with the concept of externalities in economics. If you are, the you should realize that air pollution standards are fully consistent with capitalism.

I merely described the differences between the types of government, and how progressives are indeed socialists.

You may think that's what you described, but what you in fact described was a dumbed-down delusional alternate reality. But enjoy your incoherent rant.

Tell me where I am wrong. Take a look at the 'one child' rule in China now becoming 'two child'. There's an extreme example of Communism. How many babies have been 'disappeared'? Bloomberg with his crazy-ass laws and attempts at laws is great example of democratic socialism. Attempts at restricting bakeries from giving day-old bagels to homeless shelters because there was no way to get an accurate carb count?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

MikeL wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Defective ignition switches and software designed for the explicit purpose of circumventing federal emissions regulations are entirely different from the standpoint of federal regulators. There is a NHTSA recall system and GM agreed to pay a $35 million fine. This of course does does not absolve the company of liability for damages in civil claims.

You're making far too much sense for the Tea Party type that started this thread to understand what you're typing.

Again, the problem is Federal emissions regulations to begin with. And Obama's personal beef with Volkswagen.

What's your basis for your assertion that Obama has a personal beef with Volkswagen? Just that they oppose clean air regulations? Um, that would describe every auto company in the world, duh.

I linked to an article that went over his anger at Volkswagen/unions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: There's regulation and there's over-regulation. Progressives like Obama tell you what's good for you and that you need to comply because they say it's good for you and the environment (think Bloomberg and the soda and salt regulations). So it's their way or the highway. One of the Scandinavian countries (I believe Denmark?) have some pretty interesting issues regarding coercion/mental illness and as socialism creeps into this country, we are seeing a trend towards the same.

What does any of this have to do with VW intentionally cheating on the emissions test in the US and around the world? The emissions tests are not targeted at VW, they're the same for every car, in those states that have an emissions test for diesel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Never mind Obama is again picking and choosing which laws he wants to enforce and which to ignore. He was no less deceitful re: Obamacare.

Literally every president and every prosecutor ever, has picked and chosen which laws to enforce and against which defendants. A lot of it has to do with 1) their likelihood of prevailing, and 2) the impact of the illegal activity. Here, both factors argue toward enforcement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I knew there had to be more to the recalls - to destroy a company using global warming as an excuse is hella bullshit. This is really about unions and revenge over Volkswagen not supporting Obama's green agenda:

http://www.autonews.com/article/20140214/OEM01/140219901/obama-weighs-in-on-contentious-union-vote-at-volkswagen-plant

http://dailycaller.com/2015/10/13/volkswagen-lobbied-obama-administration-for-green-tax-credits/

Yet GM, aka 'Government Motors' recall of their ignition switches directly led to the deaths of people, and escaped with a fine and no charges filed.


Just gross.

Big Business breaks the law; Republican shill blames Obama. Just another Monday.

There's your issue right there. The ridiculous legislation.

Think of a buffet. In Constitutional Republic allows you to go to many buffets with many choices. The business owner has freedom to choose what's on his/her buffet and to change it at will. With Communism, there is one type of buffet with the same food choices. Don't complain; you might 'disappear'. With democratic socialism, there are many buffets (come privately owned, some government-owned) with many choices, but those choices are heavily regulated, i.e. you can serve only foods that are deemed healthy and/or approved to serve.

Is this a joke? Are you not familiar with the concept of externalities in economics. If you are, the you should realize that air pollution standards are fully consistent with capitalism.

I merely described the differences between the types of government, and how progressives are indeed socialists.

You may think that's what you described, but what you in fact described was a dumbed-down delusional alternate reality. But enjoy your incoherent rant.

Tell me where I am wrong. Take a look at the 'one child' rule in China now becoming 'two child'. There's an extreme example of Communism. How many babies have been 'disappeared'? Bloomberg with his crazy-ass laws and attempts at laws is great example of democratic socialism. Attempts at restricting bakeries from giving day-old bagels to homeless shelters because there was no way to get an accurate carb count?

And that has to do with emissions regulations because....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

MikeL wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Defective ignition switches and software designed for the explicit purpose of circumventing federal emissions regulations are entirely different from the standpoint of federal regulators. There is a NHTSA recall system and GM agreed to pay a $35 million fine. This of course does does not absolve the company of liability for damages in civil claims.

You're making far too much sense for the Tea Party type that started this thread to understand what you're typing.

Again, the problem is Federal emissions regulations to begin with. And Obama's personal beef with Volkswagen.

What is your problem with Federal emissions regulations? (I mean, to the extent you know anything about them.)

That they being used as a political sledgehammer to beat a company into submission?

Because you say so, but in fact all that's happening is that VW was caught (by a nongovernmental entity, by the way, who then reported it) blatantly violating federal emissions requirements. And lying to cover it up. You're going to have a hard time making a case that they're being unfairly persecuted with those facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I knew there had to be more to the recalls - to destroy a company using global warming as an excuse is hella bullshit. This is really about unions and revenge over Volkswagen not supporting Obama's green agenda:

http://www.autonews.com/article/20140214/OEM01/140219901/obama-weighs-in-on-contentious-union-vote-at-volkswagen-plant

http://dailycaller.com/2015/10/13/volkswagen-lobbied-obama-administration-for-green-tax-credits/

Yet GM, aka 'Government Motors' recall of their ignition switches directly led to the deaths of people, and escaped with a fine and no charges filed.


Just gross.

Big Business breaks the law; Republican shill blames Obama. Just another Monday.

There's your issue right there. The ridiculous legislation.

Think of a buffet. In Constitutional Republic allows you to go to many buffets with many choices. The business owner has freedom to choose what's on his/her buffet and to change it at will. With Communism, there is one type of buffet with the same food choices. Don't complain; you might 'disappear'. With democratic socialism, there are many buffets (come privately owned, some government-owned) with many choices, but those choices are heavily regulated, i.e. you can serve only foods that are deemed healthy and/or approved to serve.

Sigh. How to explain an externality to someone who views governments in terms of buffets.

[b]When you burn a gallon of gas, you pollute the air, water, and land that belong to all of us. Therefore you owe us an amount of money equal to what it takes to clean it. We could just put a tax on a gallon of gasoline equal to what it takes to clean up the pollution it produces. Then we would not need to regulate fuel efficiency. Let's just say the price of the buffet needs to cover the repair to the toilet you clog afterward.

But you would go apeshit if you had to pay the real cost of fuel including environmental cleanup. So we compromise and ask auto makers to ever-so-gradually improve fuel efficiency. You should be damn glad, too. Because the fuel cost of that Suburban you drive would skyrocket if the rest of the world wasn't driving Camrys and Civics.

So yes, it is only ridiculous to the extent that it's a poor substitute for the indisputable economic principle of taxing gas to pay for the externality.

There's regulation and there's over-regulation. Progressives like Obama tell you what's good for you and that you need to comply because they say it's good for you and the environment (think Bloomberg and the soda and salt regulations). So it's their way or the highway. One of the Scandinavian countries (I believe Denmark?) have some pretty interesting issues regarding coercion/mental illness and as socialism creeps into this country, we are seeing a trend towards the same.

And you know that this is overregulation, just 'cause you just know. Because emissions are fine and shouldn't be regulated. Cuz papa Fox said so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: There's regulation and there's over-regulation. Progressives like Obama tell you what's good for you and that you need to comply because they say it's good for you and the environment (think Bloomberg and the soda and salt regulations). So it's their way or the highway. One of the Scandinavian countries (I believe Denmark?) have some pretty interesting issues regarding coercion/mental illness and as socialism creeps into this country, we are seeing a trend towards the same.

What does any of this have to do with VW intentionally cheating on the emissions test in the US and around the world? The emissions tests are not targeted at VW, they're the same for every car, in those states that have an emissions test for diesel.

Shhh, the crazy drunk angry uncle might just fall asleep if we ignore him.

[Anonymous]

NP and two more inconvenient facts to inject into the mix:

A.) diesel particulates DO kill people with respiratory issues, plenty of science, studies and articles on that from all around the world: http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/apr/29/diesel-engine-pollution-premature-deaths-costs-nhs-billions

B.) this isn't strictly an "Obama Overregulation" or "Obama Targeting A Political Foe" thing, it's a huge scandal in Germany also: http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article146711288/Die-Bundesregierung-kannte-die-Betrueger-Technik.html