Oldest Quran Manuscript discovered in Birmingham

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL way to make everything about you. Actually, as Muslims, we don't believe our religion is superior and we see Christians and Jews as our brothers and sisters on a different path. As a Muslim, any time I see old versions of the Quran it just amazes me that over all this time, it hasn't changed and that we are reading the same book that our ancestors read. That to me is amazing.

It doesn't have anything to do with Christians or the Bible or Hindus or anyone else. Sorry to take the attention away from you :'(

A key tenet of Islam is that the Jews and Christians got it wrong, so God sent Mohammed to set everybody straight. You're definitely not speaking for all Muslims, or even most Muslims, or even many Muslims at all.

In any case, the age of a piece of paper/papyrus/stone proves nothing about the presence, or lack thereof, of divine inspiration behind the document.

PP at the top, I have to ask: why did you post something that you know to be untrue? Lots of us know that Muslims believe that Jews and Christians got it wrong. It only takes one person to call you out on this. I suspect you were involved in last year's crazy threads that were precipitated by claims about fantasy conversion rates to Islam, equal treatment of women, and so on, and I also suspect that you don't want a repeat of being called out by people on this stuff.

There's a big difference between theological differences and feeling "superior" as someone was claiming. I can respect theological differences without feeling superior than someone who isn't of the same faith as me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL way to make everything about you. Actually, as Muslims, we don't believe our religion is superior and we see Christians and Jews as our brothers and sisters on a different path. As a Muslim, any time I see old versions of the Quran it just amazes me that over all this time, it hasn't changed and that we are reading the same book that our ancestors read. That to me is amazing.

It doesn't have anything to do with Christians or the Bible or Hindus or anyone else. Sorry to take the attention away from you :'(

A key tenet of Islam is that the Jews and Christians got it wrong, so God sent Mohammed to set everybody straight. You're definitely not speaking for all Muslims, or even most Muslims, or even many Muslims at all.

In any case, the age of a piece of paper/papyrus/stone proves nothing about the presence, or lack thereof, of divine inspiration behind the document.

PP at the top, I have to ask: why did you post something that you know to be untrue? Lots of us know that Muslims believe that Jews and Christians got it wrong. It only takes one person to call you out on this. I suspect you were involved in last year's crazy threads that were precipitated by claims about fantasy conversion rates to Islam, equal treatment of women, and so on, and I also suspect that you don't want a repeat of being called out by people on this stuff.

There's a big difference between theological differences and feeling "superior" as someone was claiming. I can respect theological differences without feeling superior than someone who isn't of the same faith as me.

Do Muslims respect the differences in faith with regards to non-Abrahamic religions too?

Do they also consider Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Jains, and Zorastrians as Brothers and Sisters on an equally valid, yet different path?

[Anonymous]

These texts are DH's academic area of study and he is rubbing his hands with glee for insights into the original language of the document.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL way to make everything about you. Actually, as Muslims, we don't believe our religion is superior and we see Christians and Jews as our brothers and sisters on a different path. As a Muslim, any time I see old versions of the Quran it just amazes me that over all this time, it hasn't changed and that we are reading the same book that our ancestors read. That to me is amazing.

It doesn't have anything to do with Christians or the Bible or Hindus or anyone else. Sorry to take the attention away from you :'(

A key tenet of Islam is that the Jews and Christians got it wrong, so God sent Mohammed to set everybody straight. You're definitely not speaking for all Muslims, or even most Muslims, or even many Muslims at all.

In any case, the age of a piece of paper/papyrus/stone proves nothing about the presence, or lack thereof, of divine inspiration behind the document.

PP at the top, I have to ask: why did you post something that you know to be untrue? Lots of us know that Muslims believe that Jews and Christians got it wrong. It only takes one person to call you out on this. I suspect you were involved in last year's crazy threads that were precipitated by claims about fantasy conversion rates to Islam, equal treatment of women, and so on, and I also suspect that you don't want a repeat of being called out by people on this stuff.

There's a big difference between theological differences and feeling "superior" as someone was claiming. I can respect theological differences without feeling superior than someone who isn't of the same faith as me.

The jizhya tax on other Abrahamic faiths has historically been a demonstration of their inferior status (although today it's often spun as a way to get out of fighting).

I'll let someone else answer about the Buddhists, Hindus and so on. I doubt top PP will answer this, however.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
There's a big difference between theological differences and feeling "superior" as someone was claiming. I can respect theological differences without feeling superior than someone who isn't of the same faith as me.

This isn't about feeling superior, but believing that your religion is superior to another. Superior in the sense of being better, more correct, more authentic, and etc.

Do you not believe that Muslim is a superior religion to Christianity? Or you think they are equals?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There's a big difference between theological differences and feeling "superior" as someone was claiming. I can respect theological differences without feeling superior than someone who isn't of the same faith as me.

This isn't about feeling superior, but believing that your religion is superior to another. Superior in the sense of being better, more correct, more authentic, and etc.

Do you not believe that Muslim is a superior religion to Christianity? Or you think they are equals?

PP here, sorry, not Muslim, but Islam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There's a big difference between theological differences and feeling "superior" as someone was claiming. I can respect theological differences without feeling superior than someone who isn't of the same faith as me.

This isn't about feeling superior, but believing that your religion is superior to another. Superior in the sense of being better, more correct, more authentic, and etc.

Do you not believe that Muslim is a superior religion to Christianity? Or you think they are equals?

Not the PP you're responding to but had to ask, do Christians see Muslims as equals? What about Jews? Do Christians see Jews as being their equals and vice versa? Do any religions actually see those of other faiths as being "equals" or is that the whole premise of having different faiths? I found your line of questioning the PP pretty inane based on you singling out Muslims as if they are the only ones who don't see others as "equals".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There's a big difference between theological differences and feeling "superior" as someone was claiming. I can respect theological differences without feeling superior than someone who isn't of the same faith as me.

This isn't about feeling superior, but believing that your religion is superior to another. Superior in the sense of being better, more correct, more authentic, and etc.

Do you not believe that Muslim is a superior religion to Christianity? Or you think they are equals?

Not the PP you're responding to but had to ask, do Christians see Muslims as equals? What about Jews? Do Christians see Jews as being their equals and vice versa? Do any religions actually see those of other faiths as being "equals" or is that the whole premise of having different faiths? I found your line of questioning the PP pretty inane based on you singling out Muslims as if they are the only ones who don't see others as "equals".

I'm not any of the above PPs, but if we do a little archaeology (back to the first page), that's exactly the question that started this derailment. Muslima posted something that prompted people to ask whether she was being "provocative" and/or felt superior. So this question about whether she was being provocative/superior is why she's being "singled out."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There's a big difference between theological differences and feeling "superior" as someone was claiming. I can respect theological differences without feeling superior than someone who isn't of the same faith as me.

This isn't about feeling superior, but believing that your religion is superior to another. Superior in the sense of being better, more correct, more authentic, and etc.

Do you not believe that Muslim is a superior religion to Christianity? Or you think they are equals?

Not the PP you're responding to but had to ask, do Christians see Muslims as equals? What about Jews? Do Christians see Jews as being their equals and vice versa? Do any religions actually see those of other faiths as being "equals" or is that the whole premise of having different faiths? I found your line of questioning the PP pretty inane based on you singling out Muslims as if they are the only ones who don't see others as "equals".

I'm not any of the above PPs, but if we do a little archaeology (back to the first page), that's exactly the question that started this derailment. Muslima posted something that prompted people to ask whether she was being "provocative" and/or felt superior. So this question about whether she was being provocative/superior is why she's being "singled out."

Ohh ok I see. I didn't get a superior vibe from her fwiw

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL way to make everything about you. Actually, as Muslims, we don't believe our religion is superior and we see Christians and Jews as our brothers and sisters on a different path. As a Muslim, any time I see old versions of the Quran it just amazes me that over all this time, it hasn't changed and that we are reading the same book that our ancestors read. That to me is amazing.

It doesn't have anything to do with Christians or the Bible or Hindus or anyone else. Sorry to take the attention away from you :'(

A key tenet of Islam is that the Jews and Christians got it wrong, so God sent Mohammed to set everybody straight. You're definitely not speaking for all Muslims, or even most Muslims, or even many Muslims at all.

In any case, the age of a piece of paper/papyrus/stone proves nothing about the presence, or lack thereof, of divine inspiration behind the document.

PP at the top, I have to ask: why did you post something that you know to be untrue? Lots of us know that Muslims believe that Jews and Christians got it wrong. It only takes one person to call you out on this. I suspect you were involved in last year's crazy threads that were precipitated by claims about fantasy conversion rates to Islam, equal treatment of women, and so on, and I also suspect that you don't want a repeat of being called out by people on this stuff.

There's a big difference between theological differences and feeling "superior" as someone was claiming. I can respect theological differences without feeling superior than someone who isn't of the same faith as me.

The jizhya tax on other Abrahamic faiths has historically been a demonstration of their inferior status (although today it's often spun as a way to get out of fighting).

I'll let someone else answer about the Buddhists, Hindus and so on. I doubt top PP will answer this, however.

Hindus, Buddhists, etc were not given the 'decency' of jizhya tax, they were (and in some places still even today) forced to convert or die.

[Anonymous]

I think her un-nuanced statement that "Muslims don't see themselves as superior" combined with her assertion that "we're just on a different path" was what set some people off. Some of us are veterans of a series of threads a year ago, where she was making all sorts of highly debatable claims about what's in the Quran. Maybe it's just PTSD, though.

As you say, most religions consider themselves superior to other religions. Otherwise, why belong to that particular religion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL way to make everything about you. Actually, as Muslims, we don't believe our religion is superior and we see Christians and Jews as our brothers and sisters on a different path. As a Muslim, any time I see old versions of the Quran it just amazes me that over all this time, it hasn't changed and that we are reading the same book that our ancestors read. That to me is amazing.

It doesn't have anything to do with Christians or the Bible or Hindus or anyone else. Sorry to take the attention away from you :'(

A key tenet of Islam is that the Jews and Christians got it wrong, so God sent Mohammed to set everybody straight. You're definitely not speaking for all Muslims, or even most Muslims, or even many Muslims at all.

In any case, the age of a piece of paper/papyrus/stone proves nothing about the presence, or lack thereof, of divine inspiration behind the document.

PP at the top, I have to ask: why did you post something that you know to be untrue? Lots of us know that Muslims believe that Jews and Christians got it wrong. It only takes one person to call you out on this. I suspect you were involved in last year's crazy threads that were precipitated by claims about fantasy conversion rates to Islam, equal treatment of women, and so on, and I also suspect that you don't want a repeat of being called out by people on this stuff.

There's a big difference between theological differences and feeling "superior" as someone was claiming. I can respect theological differences without feeling superior than someone who isn't of the same faith as me.

The jizhya tax on other Abrahamic faiths has historically been a demonstration of their inferior status (although today it's often spun as a way to get out of fighting).

I'll let someone else answer about the Buddhists, Hindus and so on. I doubt top PP will answer this, however.

Hindus, Buddhists, etc were not given the 'decency' of jizhya tax, they were (and in some places still even today) forced to convert or die.

PP here. Yup. It's God's word.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These texts are DH's academic area of study and he is rubbing his hands with glee for insights into the original language of the document.

Why, its written in Hijazi. I think the 1500 year old bible discovered in Turkey written in Syriac (The Native language of Jesus) much more interesting. It contains Gospels edited from today's Bible. Including Gospel references to Jesus as a prophet and his rise to heaven without death by Crucifixion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL way to make everything about you. Actually, as Muslims, we don't believe our religion is superior and we see Christians and Jews as our brothers and sisters on a different path. As a Muslim, any time I see old versions of the Quran it just amazes me that over all this time, it hasn't changed and that we are reading the same book that our ancestors read. That to me is amazing.

It doesn't have anything to do with Christians or the Bible or Hindus or anyone else. Sorry to take the attention away from you :'(

A key tenet of Islam is that the Jews and Christians got it wrong, so God sent Mohammed to set everybody straight. You're definitely not speaking for all Muslims, or even most Muslims, or even many Muslims at all.

In any case, the age of a piece of paper/papyrus/stone proves nothing about the presence, or lack thereof, of divine inspiration behind the document.

PP at the top, I have to ask: why did you post something that you know to be untrue? Lots of us know that Muslims believe that Jews and Christians got it wrong. It only takes one person to call you out on this. I suspect you were involved in last year's crazy threads that were precipitated by claims about fantasy conversion rates to Islam, equal treatment of women, and so on, and I also suspect that you don't want a repeat of being called out by people on this stuff.

There's a big difference between theological differences and feeling "superior" as someone was claiming. I can respect theological differences without feeling superior than someone who isn't of the same faith as me.

The jizhya tax on other Abrahamic faiths has historically been a demonstration of their inferior status (although today it's often spun as a way to get out of fighting).

I'll let someone else answer about the Buddhists, Hindus and so on. I doubt top PP will answer this, however.

Hindus, Buddhists, etc were not given the 'decency' of jizhya tax, they were (and in some places still even today) forced to convert or die.

Historically, how were they treated under Christian rulers? I'm sure they weren't persecuted at all!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL way to make everything about you. Actually, as Muslims, we don't believe our religion is superior and we see Christians and Jews as our brothers and sisters on a different path. As a Muslim, any time I see old versions of the Quran it just amazes me that over all this time, it hasn't changed and that we are reading the same book that our ancestors read. That to me is amazing.

It doesn't have anything to do with Christians or the Bible or Hindus or anyone else. Sorry to take the attention away from you :'(

A key tenet of Islam is that the Jews and Christians got it wrong, so God sent Mohammed to set everybody straight. You're definitely not speaking for all Muslims, or even most Muslims, or even many Muslims at all.

In any case, the age of a piece of paper/papyrus/stone proves nothing about the presence, or lack thereof, of divine inspiration behind the document.

PP at the top, I have to ask: why did you post something that you know to be untrue? Lots of us know that Muslims believe that Jews and Christians got it wrong. It only takes one person to call you out on this. I suspect you were involved in last year's crazy threads that were precipitated by claims about fantasy conversion rates to Islam, equal treatment of women, and so on, and I also suspect that you don't want a repeat of being called out by people on this stuff.

There's a big difference between theological differences and feeling "superior" as someone was claiming. I can respect theological differences without feeling superior than someone who isn't of the same faith as me.

The jizhya tax on other Abrahamic faiths has historically been a demonstration of their inferior status (although today it's often spun as a way to get out of fighting).

I'll let someone else answer about the Buddhists, Hindus and so on. I doubt top PP will answer this, however.

Hindus, Buddhists, etc were not given the 'decency' of jizhya tax, they were (and in some places still even today) forced to convert or die.

Historically, how were they treated under Christian rulers? I'm sure they weren't persecuted at all!

Obviously, yes they were also persecuted by Christian rulers, however there is a major significant understanding you're omitting. It was not commanded by the Christian religious text to convert or kill. It was done but not theologically commanded. Huge difference. In addition, Christians did not separate their treatment from those that followed non-Abrahamic religions or those that practiced Abrahamic religions. Their stance did not 'de-humanize' those that were not of an Abrahamic faith.

Also, this convert or kill theology is still being practiced today, right now in 2015 under the religious umbrella of Islam.