Deleted or moved? Planned Parenthood thread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem with abortion threads is that they always devolve into opinions about whether or not abortion is moral. It only took a page or two for the thread in question to devolve into accusations that Planned Parenthood is a concentration camp, babies are being murdered like Jews, PP is a serial killer, nobody ever gets contraception or mammograms from PP, etc. It's not possible to have a nuanced conversation about the video because pro-lifers want to make the conversation about abortion itself. Do you see the difference?

NP here. I reported the thread and suggested that it be removed. The above is why.

You can oppose abortion and remain in the rational world. When you start saying that a medical clinic is the same as a death camp, that's the point at which it is no longer a debate about issues. In this particular case, the debate began in a place of distortions and half truths. Saying that PP is in the fetal parts business as though they're organ traffickers is disingenuous at best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with abortion threads is that they always devolve into opinions about whether or not abortion is moral. It only took a page or two for the thread in question to devolve into accusations that Planned Parenthood is a concentration camp, babies are being murdered like Jews, PP is a serial killer, nobody ever gets contraception or mammograms from PP, etc. It's not possible to have a nuanced conversation about the video because pro-lifers want to make the conversation about abortion itself. Do you see the difference?

NP here. I reported the thread and suggested that it be removed. The above is why.

You can oppose abortion and remain in the rational world. When you start saying that a medical clinic is the same as a death camp, that's the point at which it is no longer a debate about issues. In this particular case, the debate began in a place of distortions and half truths. Saying that PP is in the fetal parts business as though they're organ traffickers is disingenuous at best.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to jump in here. A "nuanced" conversation about the video? How do you "nuance" the fact that this PP executive sat there for over two hours (length of the entire video), talking about these illegal actions that involve the selling of baby parts? What, exactly, is "nuanced" about that? And second, how can the conversation NOT be about abortion itself? That is what we are discussing.

As a long time DCUM reader and participant, I am disappointed that this topic is apparently off bounds. If you noticed, it is even in the Washington Post today, with something like 1,500 comments there. Obviously, it is a topic that many people want to discuss. I have to ask Jeff and this person who reported posts they are so uncomfortable with: What, exactly, are you afraid of?

[Anonymous]

I'm not afraid of having a conversation about a current event, provided that the conversation is based in reality. That one wasn't.

[Anonymous]

Planned Parenthood: Selling aborted babies’ organs was a ‘humanitarian undertaking’

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/planned-parenthood-selling-aborted-babies-organs-and-tissue-was-a-humanitar

[Anonymous]

Curbing the ugliness on DCUM is a full-time effort. I didn't see the thread. It's not something I would even click on because of the ugliness I know would be found there.

PPs cite where discussion is taking place. So there are other avenues available. Go there.

Personally, I'm glad to be spared the viciousness and spite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not afraid of having a conversation about a current event, provided that the conversation is based in reality. That one wasn't.

No. You are just denying reality.

I concede that some of the analogies were inflammatory and perhaps even a little off-base, but the story itself is so sickening, so vile that many people who have a moral compass are stretching to find words to describe how they feel about this. Can't you understand at least that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with abortion threads is that they always devolve into opinions about whether or not abortion is moral. It only took a page or two for the thread in question to devolve into accusations that Planned Parenthood is a concentration camp, babies are being murdered like Jews, PP is a serial killer, nobody ever gets contraception or mammograms from PP, etc. It's not possible to have a nuanced conversation about the video because pro-lifers want to make the conversation about abortion itself. Do you see the difference?

NP here. I reported the thread and suggested that it be removed. The above is why.

You can oppose abortion and remain in the rational world. When you start saying that a medical clinic is the same as a death camp, that's the point at which it is no longer a debate about issues. In this particular case, the debate began in a place of distortions and half truths. Saying that PP is in the fetal parts business as though they're organ traffickers is disingenuous at best.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to jump in here. A "nuanced" conversation about the video? How do you "nuance" the fact that this PP executive sat there for over two hours (length of the entire video), talking about these illegal actions that involve the selling of baby parts? What, exactly, is "nuanced" about that? And second, how can the conversation NOT be about abortion itself? That is what we are discussing.

As a long time DCUM reader and participant, I am disappointed that this topic is apparently off bounds. If you noticed, it is even in the Washington Post today, with something like 1,500 comments there. Obviously, it is a topic that many people want to discuss. I have to ask Jeff and this person who reported posts they are so uncomfortable with: What, exactly, are you afraid of?

No, you don't get it. That's the "nuance" that you're missing. The question for discussion should be: What should be done with the leftover fetal tissue once the abortion is finished? Is it ethical for PP to transfer it to private research companies? Is it ethical to try to perform the abortion in a way that preserves certain tissues for research?

But it's not possible for some people on DCUM to set aside the question of whether abortion should be legal to discuss any other ethical questions. Blame the "concentration camp" poster for shutting down the discussion, not Jeff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with abortion threads is that they always devolve into opinions about whether or not abortion is moral. It only took a page or two for the thread in question to devolve into accusations that Planned Parenthood is a concentration camp, babies are being murdered like Jews, PP is a serial killer, nobody ever gets contraception or mammograms from PP, etc. It's not possible to have a nuanced conversation about the video because pro-lifers want to make the conversation about abortion itself. Do you see the difference?

NP here. I reported the thread and suggested that it be removed. The above is why.

You can oppose abortion and remain in the rational world. When you start saying that a medical clinic is the same as a death camp, that's the point at which it is no longer a debate about issues. In this particular case, the debate began in a place of distortions and half truths. Saying that PP is in the fetal parts business as though they're organ traffickers is disingenuous at best.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to jump in here. A "nuanced" conversation about the video? How do you "nuance" the fact that this PP executive sat there for over two hours (length of the entire video), talking about these illegal actions that involve the selling of baby parts? What, exactly, is "nuanced" about that? And second, how can the conversation NOT be about abortion itself? That is what we are discussing.

As a long time DCUM reader and participant, I am disappointed that this topic is apparently off bounds. If you noticed, it is even in the Washington Post today, with something like 1,500 comments there. Obviously, it is a topic that many people want to discuss. I have to ask Jeff and this person who reported posts they are so uncomfortable with: What, exactly, are you afraid of?

No, you don't get it. That's the "nuance" that you're missing. The question for discussion should be: What should be done with the leftover fetal tissue once the abortion is finished? Is it ethical for PP to transfer it to private research companies? Is it ethical to try to perform the abortion in a way that preserves certain tissues for research?

But it's not possible for some people on DCUM to set aside the question of whether abortion should be legal to discuss any other ethical questions. Blame the "concentration camp" poster for shutting down the discussion, not Jeff.

The topic of discussion should be the video itself. That was the news maker on July 14, 2015, making it current and relevant to DCUM discussion. The issue of what to be done with discarded fetal tissue is a tangent at best, and far beyond the understanding, technically, of DCUM readers.

And the video itself was nothing short of horrifying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not afraid of having a conversation about a current event, provided that the conversation is based in reality. That one wasn't.

No. You are just denying reality.

I concede that some of the analogies were inflammatory and perhaps even a little off-base, but the story itself is so sickening, so vile that many people who have a moral compass are stretching to find words to describe how they feel about this. Can't you understand at least that?

I'm really not. Patients volunteer to donate tissue. Based on need, doctors perform the procedure slightly differently. Tissue and organs then donated to science. The money changing hands is related to the collection and transport of donated tissue and organs. This is being classified as illegal trafficking in organs, which is not true.

My moral compass is just fine. I would like to know more about what, scientifically, these specimens are being used for, research-wise - not to approve or disapprove the collection of them but because I am actually interested in the science. I do not have a problem with voluntary organ donation. Whether you like it or not, the fetus being aborted is not a person capable of giving consent for that procedure. It is the decision of the female patient undergoing the abortion, and I do not think it's vile at all.

I do understand that you don't see it that way. If I saw it the way you do, I would think it was vile too. But I do not. Can you understand that?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to jump in here. A "nuanced" conversation about the video? How do you "nuance" the fact that this PP executive sat there for over two hours (length of the entire video), talking about these illegal actions that involve the selling of baby parts? What, exactly, is "nuanced" about that? And second, how can the conversation NOT be about abortion itself? That is what we are discussing.

Your understanding of what was depicted in the video not only lacks "nuance", but lacks fact. There was no discussion of selling baby parts. That is a distortion of what was portrayed. The actions were, in fact, not illegal.

And, with that, I'm going to lock this thread.