FCPS NNAT 2 Result Interpretation and Retest suggestions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First of all, your child got in the 88th percentile. That's not an "only" result. It's very high. Why do you think it is not accurate?

Secondly, you can request a one-time retake of either the CogAT or the NNAT through FCPS for free. The NNAT was online this year so your child may have rushed. You could do an NNAT retake in the fall through FCPS if you really need to. I don't know why you are dismissing these very high results, though.

FCPS average is somewhere in the 75th percentile.

Is that true? So FCPS students score that much higher than nationwide students?

Absolutely.

When you get the 2nd grade test results back, the score report shows a national percentage and a fcps percentage.

The difference between the two percentages is significant, I believe close to a 10% difference. I can't remember exact scores, but my child's national scores would have easily qualified him for GT services in other states we lived in, but was much lower and out of the range for fc AAP.

[Anonymous]

I wonder if they just sprung a random test on a FCPS second graders with no chance for test-prep if the difference would be statistically different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if they just sprung a random test on a FCPS second graders with no chance for test-prep if the difference would be statistically different.

Doubtful. The mega-preppers have their kids taking NNAT prep classes in Kindergarten.

[Anonymous]

My 1st grader just told me over dinner that some of his classmates are doing Kumon on Saturday afternoons ... Wow, why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if they just sprung a random test on a FCPS second graders with no chance for test-prep if the difference would be statistically different.

This is exactly what they should be doing. No warning, just a random test on a random day. Then you'd really see who does well naturally and who needs to be prepped to do well. Though, as another PP noted, the preppers have been prepped since birth anyway, so that might not work for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My 1st grader just told me over dinner that some of his classmates are doing Kumon on Saturday afternoons ... Wow, why?

Probably to teach math facts. I'm not a prepare and my kids did Kumon for a short time to solidify math facts. The FCPS don't teach the facts. I was told the kids "pick them up organically."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hello, I really needed some guidance. My son tested for the NNAT in 1st grade and got only 119 (88th Percentile). He is yet to test the CoGAT in 2nd grade, but I am struggling with the decision on whether we should have him take a NNAT retest at GMU or not in September 2015. Or shall we wait for January 2016 until after we have her CoGAT scores? The parent referral deadline is usually February 3rd or so and so was confused as to what I should do...

I know he would do extremely well in AAP but I know he may not make it to the pool on his NNAT result. I would sincerely appreciate some advice. Also does anyone have an experience of getting their child into AAP with a similar NNAT score?

Thanks much!

Do not go to GMU to take the NNAT. You are better off (a) planning on a parent referral, no matter what the CogAT scores are next year and (b) if you are doing testing, planning for the WISC instead of the NNAT. Good luck.[Thanks so much for your response. I am so new to this process and appreciate the guidance. Why is it not a good idea to go to GMU? Why is WISC a better idea? /quote]

You need more data and it's way too early in the process to stress this much. AAP admission is a marathon, not a sprint, and the AAP selection process won't even officially start until early 2016. Also, I can't believe that even if a second NNAT is much higher it would be taken seriously so soon after the first-- it would look like he was prepped. Wait for the COGAT and see if he is in pool based on that. My DS had a lowish NNAT (low 120s, I think), but high COGAT, and was in pool and selected based on that. If he isn't in pool, talk to his teacher about whether to parent refer. It could be that AAP just isn't right, though no parent wants to believe it. If you parent refer, there is a good chance he will be denied, so consider getting a good private psychologist to administer a WISC to include if it is strong. There are past threads about which psychologists are good at this. GL[ Thanks so much! The fact that a second NNAT score within 6 months of the first, even if higher, would like it was based on prep makes good sense. The 119 was not based on any prep. I had no idea then what to do. Also, do you think it is a good idea to speak to the AART at his school? I don't know because sometimes I feel these teachers are not cooperative and may think I am a presumptuous or overconfident parent and I have a fear that that may put my child in the wrong light. I am sharing my concerns openly. /quote]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First of all, your child got in the 88th percentile. That's not an "only" result. It's very high. Why do you think it is not accurate?

Secondly, you can request a one-time retake of either the CogAT or the NNAT through FCPS for free. The NNAT was online this year so your child may have rushed. You could do an NNAT retake in the fall through FCPS if you really need to. I don't know why you are dismissing these very high results, though.

It must be accurate I am sure, and you are absolutely right, my son told me he was rushed during the test. Unfortunately the opportunity is lost I feel because his peers (at least 2) have a much higher score (140s). These peers are in the same reading group and math group as my child and that is what makes me feel so bad - I am sure test scores are given a lot of weight in the decision making process. And I don't think NNAT is administered again through FCPS until the 3rd grade if requested. That is why I was wondering if I should get him retested at GMU this Sept but from what other readers have mentioned, it seems to not be a good idea...


Students can only be retested beginning in the third grade:
http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/faqs.shtml
"Can students be re-tested?
Parent/guardians of students enrolled in and attending FCPS may request one re-test in grades three through seven. This test may be administered during the fall testing cycle. Please let the testing coordinator and Advanced Academic Resource Teacher at your local school know at the start of the school year if you wish to have your student re-tested. Additional testing may be obtained from George Mason University Psychological Clinic (703-993-4200, http://cap.gmu.edu/). Students must wait at least 6 months before retaking any group ability test or individual intelligence test. Students may take a different approved individual intelligence test administered by a state licensed clinical psychologist within the 6 month period."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if they just sprung a random test on a FCPS second graders with no chance for test-prep if the difference would be statistically different.

Doubtful. The mega-preppers have their kids taking NNAT prep classes in Kindergarten.

That's why it would be HILARIOUS if all of a sudden one year they gave the kids a different, new test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My 1st grader just told me over dinner that some of his classmates are doing Kumon on Saturday afternoons ... Wow, why?

I'm in Centreville and there are learning centers like Kumon in every shopping center. Someone has to go to all of them, right? We had a birthday party on a Sunday for a preschool class of 14 and 1 of the kids had school at his temple (Indian) and 2 of the other kids had Kumon. Can I just say my daughter was in a 3s class? Most of the kids were 4 but still!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First of all, your child got in the 88th percentile. That's not an "only" result. It's very high. Why do you think it is not accurate?

Secondly, you can request a one-time retake of either the CogAT or the NNAT through FCPS for free. The NNAT was online this year so your child may have rushed. You could do an NNAT retake in the fall through FCPS if you really need to. I don't know why you are dismissing these very high results, though.

It must be accurate I am sure, and you are absolutely right, my son told me he was rushed during the test. Unfortunately the opportunity is lost I feel because his peers (at least 2) have a much higher score (140s). These peers are in the same reading group and math group as my child and that is what makes me feel so bad - I am sure test scores are given a lot of weight in the decision making process. And I don't think NNAT is administered again through FCPS until the 3rd grade if requested. That is why I was wondering if I should get him retested at GMU this Sept but from what other readers have mentioned, it seems to not be a good idea...


Students can only be retested beginning in the third grade:
http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/faqs.shtml
"Can students be re-tested?
Parent/guardians of students enrolled in and attending FCPS may request one re-test in grades three through seven. This test may be administered during the fall testing cycle. Please let the testing coordinator and Advanced Academic Resource Teacher at your local school know at the start of the school year if you wish to have your student re-tested. Additional testing may be obtained from George Mason University Psychological Clinic (703-993-4200, http://cap.gmu.edu/). Students must wait at least 6 months before retaking any group ability test or individual intelligence test. Students may take a different approved individual intelligence test administered by a state licensed clinical psychologist within the 6 month period."

Look, hon, I think you are obsessing too much. (How do you know what his friends scored? Do people really talk about this?) The NNAT is used to catch bright ESOL kids who might bomb the Cogat due to language issues. It is not used to exclude kids. People have posted that their kids scored lower and were admitted to AAP.

And what do you mean, the opportunity is lost? There aren't a limited number of spaces in AAP per school or anything like that. He isn't competing with his friends for a scarce commodity. Just chill out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It must be accurate I am sure, and you are absolutely right, my son told me he was rushed during the test. [b]Unfortunately the opportunity is lost I feel because his peers (at least 2) have a much higher score (140s).

Look, hon, I think you are obsessing too much. (How do you know what his friends scored? Do people really talk about this?) The NNAT is used to catch bright ESOL kids who might bomb the Cogat due to language issues. It is not used to exclude kids. People have posted that their kids scored lower and were admitted to AAP.

And what do you mean, the opportunity is lost? There aren't a limited number of spaces in AAP per school or anything like that. He isn't competing with his friends for a scarce commodity. Just chill out.

Totally agree with this poster. While I would love to shout out my child's NNAT2 score to the universe, the only people that know it are me, my spouse, and the grandparents. Do people really ask other people what their child scored on the test? Also, the NNAT2 is a timed test. It's 30 minutes long. If your child felt rushed it was because your child was not able to answer the questions quickly enough. I'm sure with unlimited time most kids could do better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First of all, your child got in the 88th percentile. That's not an "only" result. It's very high. Why do you think it is not accurate?

Secondly, you can request a one-time retake of either the CogAT or the NNAT through FCPS for free. The NNAT was online this year so your child may have rushed. You could do an NNAT retake in the fall through FCPS if you really need to. I don't know why you are dismissing these very high results, though.

It must be accurate I am sure, and you are absolutely right, my son told me he was rushed during the test. Unfortunately the opportunity is lost I feel because his peers (at least 2) have a much higher score (140s). These peers are in the same reading group and math group as my child and that is what makes me feel so bad - I am sure test scores are given a lot of weight in the decision making process. And I don't think NNAT is administered again through FCPS until the 3rd grade if requested. That is why I was wondering if I should get him retested at GMU this Sept but from what other readers have mentioned, it seems to not be a good idea...


Students can only be retested beginning in the third grade:
http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/faqs.shtml
"Can students be re-tested?
Parent/guardians of students enrolled in and attending FCPS may request one re-test in grades three through seven. This test may be administered during the fall testing cycle. Please let the testing coordinator and Advanced Academic Resource Teacher at your local school know at the start of the school year if you wish to have your student re-tested. Additional testing may be obtained from George Mason University Psychological Clinic (703-993-4200, http://cap.gmu.edu/). Students must wait at least 6 months before retaking any group ability test or individual intelligence test. Students may take a different approved individual intelligence test administered by a state licensed clinical psychologist within the 6 month period."

Look, hon, I think you are obsessing too much. (How do you know what his friends scored? Do people really talk about this?) The NNAT is used to catch bright ESOL kids who might bomb the Cogat due to language issues. It is not used to exclude kids. People have posted that their kids scored lower and were admitted to AAP.

And what do you mean, the opportunity is lost? There aren't a limited number of spaces in AAP per school or anything like that. He isn't competing with his friends for a scarce commodity. Just chill out.

Thank you so much. I appreciate it. What you say about nnat makes sense. I hope my son does better with Cogat. What I meant with the lost opportunity is that I know my son would do great in the aap pgm as he needs that additional challenge and rigor.I feel like with the low nnat score, his chances of being accepted are hampered. The cogat is in Oct. I am not sure when the results for cogat are sent out, but parent referrals are due in Feb and I would just need to work on a referral without waiting for the cogat scores? Also I don't know how much importance the scores are given during the decision making. They say they take a holistic approach but again I wonder how much emphasis is given to scores - I am sure it is the easiest measure to base decisions on. Also I worry that a referral is sort of looked at differently than the pool files. Just thinking aloud. But still not sure whether I should do the GMU retest in Sept15 or wait for cogat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 1st grader just told me over dinner that some of his classmates are doing Kumon on Saturday afternoons ... Wow, why?

I'm in Centreville and there are learning centers like Kumon in every shopping center. Someone has to go to all of them, right? We had a birthday party on a Sunday for a preschool class of 14 and 1 of the kids had school at his temple (Indian) and 2 of the other kids had Kumon. Can I just say my daughter was in a 3s class? Most of the kids were 4 but still!

Only white kids go to Kumon.

The Asian kids are not going, be they Indian or Chinese or otherwise. That Indian kid going to school at his temple is going for either religious or language education, or both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First of all, your child got in the 88th percentile. That's not an "only" result. It's very high. Why do you think it is not accurate?

Secondly, you can request a one-time retake of either the CogAT or the NNAT through FCPS for free. The NNAT was online this year so your child may have rushed. You could do an NNAT retake in the fall through FCPS if you really need to. I don't know why you are dismissing these very high results, though.

It must be accurate I am sure, and you are absolutely right, my son told me he was rushed during the test. Unfortunately the opportunity is lost I feel because his peers (at least 2) have a much higher score (140s). These peers are in the same reading group and math group as my child and that is what makes me feel so bad - I am sure test scores are given a lot of weight in the decision making process. And I don't think NNAT is administered again through FCPS until the 3rd grade if requested. That is why I was wondering if I should get him retested at GMU this Sept but from what other readers have mentioned, it seems to not be a good idea...


Students can only be retested beginning in the third grade:
http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/faqs.shtml
"Can students be re-tested?
Parent/guardians of students enrolled in and attending FCPS may request one re-test in grades three through seven. This test may be administered during the fall testing cycle. Please let the testing coordinator and Advanced Academic Resource Teacher at your local school know at the start of the school year if you wish to have your student re-tested. Additional testing may be obtained from George Mason University Psychological Clinic (703-993-4200, http://cap.gmu.edu/). Students must wait at least 6 months before retaking any group ability test or individual intelligence test. Students may take a different approved individual intelligence test administered by a state licensed clinical psychologist within the 6 month period."

Look, hon, I think you are obsessing too much. (How do you know what his friends scored? Do people really talk about this?) The NNAT is used to catch bright ESOL kids who might bomb the Cogat due to language issues. It is not used to exclude kids. People have posted that their kids scored lower and were admitted to AAP.

And what do you mean, the opportunity is lost? There aren't a limited number of spaces in AAP per school or anything like that. He isn't competing with his friends for a scarce commodity. Just chill out.

Thank you so much. I appreciate it. What you say about nnat makes sense. I hope my son does better with Cogat. What I meant with the lost opportunity is that I know my son would do great in the aap pgm as he needs that additional challenge and rigor.I feel like with the low nnat score, his chances of being accepted are hampered. The cogat is in Oct. I am not sure when the results for cogat are sent out, but parent referrals are due in Feb and I would just need to work on a referral without waiting for the cogat scores? Also I don't know how much importance the scores are given during the decision making. They say they take a holistic approach but again I wonder how much emphasis is given to scores - I am sure it is the easiest measure to base decisions on. Also I worry that a referral is sort of looked at differently than the pool files. Just thinking aloud. But still not sure whether I should do the GMU retest in Sept15 or wait for cogat.

Best thing you can do is feed and rest your kid over the summer, so they can grow up healthy, and read (to and with them), talk and engage with them.

Best determinant of a kid's IQ is that of its main care giver. So are you smarter than the Kumon teachers?

Yes, referrals are looked at differently than pool files. While they evaluate all files the same way, the referrals will be looked at differently because they are different.

Pool files will have good NNAT, COGAT and GBRS scores across the board - maybe some scores a bit stronger, or some a bit weaker, than the average pool file.

Referred files will have one or more weaknesses in these scores. Ideally it would be augmented by other information (work sample, WISC, etc.). So you're asking the selection committee to discount one or more weaknesses in light of the augmented information. After all, if there wasn't a weakness they would be in the pool.