Including Parents in IEP Meetings

[Anonymous]

Checkout wrightslaw.com. There was a case within the past few years that ruled in favor of the parents and I think the conclusion was it is more important to have parents attend (if they want to) then it is to do the IEP by a certain date.

As others have said, give 3 possible dates. Keep it classy and don't be as rude as they are back. I would not mention the court case unless they say you cannot attend.

[Anonymous]

It is not rocket science - pick up the phone or email out to get a list of proposed times so parents can know the school's list of preferred times (more than one would be great) and parents can plan to fit into one of those options

This is the way we do it with our FCPS team. I understand the difficulty in coordinating the schedules of so many people (we also come with our advocate). The school team emails me a number of potential dates, I email them back which one works best and then I get the official letter later on - either by snail mail or in my kid's backpack.

[Anonymous]

I want to give a shout out to 14:25. You hit the nail on the head.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It is not rocket science - pick up the phone or email out to get a list of proposed times so parents can know the school's list of preferred times (more than one would be great) and parents can plan to fit into one of those options

This is the way we do it with our FCPS team. I understand the difficulty in coordinating the schedules of so many people (we also come with our advocate). The school team emails me a number of potential dates, I email them back which one works best and then I get the official letter later on - either by snail mail or in my kid's backpack.

So if FCPS has a means of collaboratively working with parents to find dates and times that work with everyone's schedules, why the push back in MCPS? Seriously, MCPS spends so much time spinning their wheels only offering 1 date and 1 time out of thin air.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It is not rocket science - pick up the phone or email out to get a list of proposed times so parents can know the school's list of preferred times (more than one would be great) and parents can plan to fit into one of those options

This is the way we do it with our FCPS team. I understand the difficulty in coordinating the schedules of so many people (we also come with our advocate). The school team emails me a number of potential dates, I email them back which one works best and then I get the official letter later on - either by snail mail or in my kid's backpack.

So if FCPS has a means of collaboratively working with parents to find dates and times that work with everyone's schedules, why the push back in MCPS? Seriously, MCPS spends so much time spinning their wheels only offering 1 date and 1 time out of thin air.

Really, it's a mystery to me. I can only think that they think they are saving money by keeping the number of special education students and services down. But, like in many situations, whatever their cost/benefit analysis is, it doesn't include the vast amount of staff time that is spent to do this jerking around. Seriously, our school could probably cut a special ed person entirely if they just complied the first time and offered appropriate services the first time, (not to mention they'd have better academic outcomes and fewer behavior problems for all).

That's why I support burden of proof legislation that would shift the burden of proof in due process cases to the school system -- they would have the prima facie showing that they met the legal process constraints and provided an appropriate education. Now, the school system knows that they can just say no and unless you are wealthy and knowledgeable about special ed law and knowledgeable about child development and education, the likelihood is that you will just give up and go away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many times would be acceptable for them to try to reschedule the meeting? It usually involves getting multiple teachers and support staff together in the same room, so there are limited time slots where it is possible.

You can do it as a phone call if you can't be there in person.

This is how I do scheduling in my job. Before the formal invite, I would check with the people whom I am trying to schedule a meeting with. The school has my contact information including email and cell phone. I know the school team usually meets on Wednesday so just ask me to hold several Wednesdays on my calendar till the rest of the team can be confirmed.

Another issue is the delay in getting the invites out. It usually takes me about 10 days to get the letter via certified mail. I think it must sit in the office a few days because the stamp on the envelope is 3 days after the letter invite date. I have offered to pick up the letters at school within 24 hours when ready so they would expedite the delivery and my response plus save $8 in postage. As it is, I often do not get the legally minimal amount of parental notification when the meeting is.

One complicating factor is when parents have experts, advocates, or attorneys to attend as well. These are professionals that have other clients and appointments. I'm sure the school would love for parents and children to be unrepresented at IEP meetings and they try to intimidate and force a meeting even when such tactics are uncalled for. In the real world, scheduling meetings takes time and coordination. Parents have the right to bring in professionals that they think would be helpful and schools should be accommodating to everyone's schedules.

It is not rocket science - pick up the phone or email out to get a list of proposed times so parents can know the school's list of preferred times (more than one would be great) and parents can plan to fit into one of those options,

This is so not true. As a teacher, I desperately want every single person who knows anything about a child in those meetings. I promise you that the people I work with WANT your child to be successful--truly.

I have attended 20+ IEPs this year as the gen ed teacher in the room, and I assure you that we do our best when it comes to scheduling. I often end up having to find coverage for my class so I can attend (meaning that 25+ other kids go without a teacher so that one child can have 30 minutes of my undivided attention). I'm sorry that you are not satisfied with the way your school is handling things.

As for the notification, that is handled by the central office (in FCPS at least). We write up all the documentation at the school, then send it to the central office who ultimately sends it home to parents. (Maybe they do something with the info first? I don't know). That's why it takes so long. I agree that it should be electronicized (or whatever the word would be) at this point.

Dear Teacher -- The way you characterize your participation in IEP meetings is a classic example of the stigma Special Ed students face. Special Ed students are often characterized as unfairly taking time away from other children. (You say, 25+ kids go without a teacher so that one child can have 30 minutes of my undivided attention). In reality, the way that school ( a public good paid for by citizen taxes) is organized has the effect of not serving or underserving disabled students. Your school could easily structure its workforce to enable you to participate AND have a fully qualified teacher cover your class, but, I'm sure that they would rather pay for more upper management, a higher superintendent salary, more BoE entertaining expenses, renovated football fields or whatever. If you want to be mad at someone that YOU have to "find coverage" and your students "go without a teacher," then blame the administrative staff who staff and set up the system this way.

BTW, you are not supposed to "do your best" in scheduling a meeting; you are supposed to comply with the LAW, which provides a certain number of days to schedule a meeting and requires that school systems enable parents to participate as EQUAL IEP team members.

Finally, it is my experience that schools absolutely DO bully parents into not attending meetings or attending without their advocate. My own school principal and I had a long running difference about whether and how my child would be coded for an IEP and what kind of service he would be provided. When my advocate had an unexpected funeral to attend, the principal refused to reschedule the meeting and tried to bully me into attending without the advocate. Thankfully, my advocate advised me to write the kind of letter advised by PPs above -- expressing my desire to attend, providing three alternative dates when the advocate and I could attend, and using my now-favorite closing phrase, "I hope that you will work collaboratively with me, so I do not have to resort to due process remedies."

In 24 hours, I had a new meeting date, without waiving the timeline.

Schools make it extremely difficult to schedule meetings. I am ALWAYS told "well we only do these on X day and we are full up for the next month". I have been pressed to waive timelines more than once. (I never do, and I always get a meeting within the timeline, because IT'S THE LAW).

Schools also make it extremely difficult for parents to participate as equal IEP team members in other ways -- they refuse to allow parents to observe their kids in the classroom, they refuse to allow parents to observe a proposed placement, they refuse to tell parents what instructional program offerings are available in the system and what qualifications a child needs, they meet as a team without the parents to agree on steps prior to the IEP meeting, etc.

The ONLY time I have not experienced being jerked around scheduling meetings is when I finally broke down and hired an attorney. In that scenario, the attorney enters his representation and the school staff must coordinate attorney to attorney to schedule the meeting (because it is considered unethical in the legal profession to talk directly to a client who is represented by counsel because that is considered an attempt to exert undue influence against a less knowledgeable person).

The school DOES do things the way you say. 90% of meetings are scheduled perfectly during planning periods, months in advance, with parents and other specialists in attendance. The trouble with classroom coverage comes when the parent cancels at the last minute, is late, reschedules the day before, etc--then the school has to scramble to get us all in the room at the same time.

I have stayed at school until 6 pm multiple times to hold these meetings, arranging alternate child care for my own children so that I could be present at an important IEP that we could not schedule during the school day. For a parent willing to work with the school, who physically could not get to school between 7-3 pm, we will move mountains to make something work.

For a parent who just responds with, "Can't do 10:00 tomorrow, important meeting came up, I'll be there at noon", then yes, I'm going to be ticked off that I had to leave my entire class (filled with other children who have IEPs just as valid as your child's).

[Anonymous]

This topic is so timely for me as well. I have my yearly coming up - which includes a re-eval decision to have my child coded for autism. While scheduling the meeting was not an issue, I ran into a thousand issues trying to get info about potential placement options. I was stymied and blocked by almost everyone from even getting any info on placement options. I even had an assistant principal make a joke about "secret" aspergers programs! I was furious!

I complained multiple times up the chain that by denying me this info, the school system was denying my ability to participate as a full member in the IEP process. That argument went no where... predictably.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The school DOES do things the way you say. 90% of meetings are scheduled perfectly during planning periods, months in advance, with parents and other specialists in attendance. The trouble with classroom coverage comes when the parent cancels at the last minute, is late, reschedules the day before, etc--then the school has to scramble to get us all in the room at the same time.

I have stayed at school until 6 pm multiple times to hold these meetings, arranging alternate child care for my own children so that I could be present at an important IEP that we could not schedule during the school day. For a parent willing to work with the school, who physically could not get to school between 7-3 pm, we will move mountains to make something work.

For a parent who just responds with, "Can't do 10:00 tomorrow, important meeting came up, I'll be there at noon", then yes, I'm going to be ticked off that I had to leave my entire class (filled with other children who have IEPs just as valid as your child's).

Life happens. People die unexpectedly. People get sick unexpectedly. People have last minute work meetings they have to attend or risk losing their job. If your school hasn't figured out a systematic way to cope with this, it's their own fault. Are you really telling me in the whole school, there's not one person to cover a class in an emergency? What happens if a teacher gets ill during the day?

And, I'm not exactly sympathetic to your anger about having to stay until 6pm for meetings and having to find alternate child care. For many of us that is a frequent reality of life.

Again, your anger speaks volumes about how you feel about special ed parents and children -- we are demanding more than is "fair", in your opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The school DOES do things the way you say. 90% of meetings are scheduled perfectly during planning periods, months in advance, with parents and other specialists in attendance. The trouble with classroom coverage comes when the parent cancels at the last minute, is late, reschedules the day before, etc--then the school has to scramble to get us all in the room at the same time.

I have stayed at school until 6 pm multiple times to hold these meetings, arranging alternate child care for my own children so that I could be present at an important IEP that we could not schedule during the school day. For a parent willing to work with the school, who physically could not get to school between 7-3 pm, we will move mountains to make something work.

For a parent who just responds with, "Can't do 10:00 tomorrow, important meeting came up, I'll be there at noon", then yes, I'm going to be ticked off that I had to leave my entire class (filled with other children who have IEPs just as valid as your child's).

Life happens. People die unexpectedly. People get sick unexpectedly. People have last minute work meetings they have to attend or risk losing their job. If your school hasn't figured out a systematic way to cope with this, it's their own fault. Are you really telling me in the whole school, there's not one person to cover a class in an emergency? What happens if a teacher gets ill during the day?

And, I'm not exactly sympathetic to your anger about having to stay until 6pm for meetings and having to find alternate child care. For many of us that is a frequent reality of life.

Again, your anger speaks volumes about how you feel about special ed parents and children -- we are demanding more than is "fair", in your opinion.

What school in MCPS stays till 6pm for an IEP meeting? I have requested an afterhours meetings because of my work situation and the school refused and held the meeting without me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The school DOES do things the way you say. 90% of meetings are scheduled perfectly during planning periods, months in advance, with parents and other specialists in attendance. The trouble with classroom coverage comes when the parent cancels at the last minute, is late, reschedules the day before, etc--then the school has to scramble to get us all in the room at the same time.

I have stayed at school until 6 pm multiple times to hold these meetings, arranging alternate child care for my own children so that I could be present at an important IEP that we could not schedule during the school day. For a parent willing to work with the school, who physically could not get to school between 7-3 pm, we will move mountains to make something work.

For a parent who just responds with, "Can't do 10:00 tomorrow, important meeting came up, I'll be there at noon", then yes, I'm going to be ticked off that I had to leave my entire class (filled with other children who have IEPs just as valid as your child's).

Life happens. People die unexpectedly. People get sick unexpectedly. People have last minute work meetings they have to attend or risk losing their job. If your school hasn't figured out a systematic way to cope with this, it's their own fault. Are you really telling me in the whole school, there's not one person to cover a class in an emergency? What happens if a teacher gets ill during the day?

And, I'm not exactly sympathetic to your anger about having to stay until 6pm for meetings and having to find alternate child care. For many of us that is a frequent reality of life.

Again, your anger speaks volumes about how you feel about special ed parents and children -- we are demanding more than is "fair", in your opinion.

What school in MCPS stays till 6pm for an IEP meeting? I have requested an afterhours meetings because of my work situation and the school refused and held the meeting without me.

What is your "work situation" that won;t let you take a few hours off. Teacher have lives outside of the school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The school DOES do things the way you say. 90% of meetings are scheduled perfectly during planning periods, months in advance, with parents and other specialists in attendance. The trouble with classroom coverage comes when the parent cancels at the last minute, is late, reschedules the day before, etc--then the school has to scramble to get us all in the room at the same time.

I have stayed at school until 6 pm multiple times to hold these meetings, arranging alternate child care for my own children so that I could be present at an important IEP that we could not schedule during the school day. For a parent willing to work with the school, who physically could not get to school between 7-3 pm, we will move mountains to make something work.

For a parent who just responds with, "Can't do 10:00 tomorrow, important meeting came up, I'll be there at noon", then yes, I'm going to be ticked off that I had to leave my entire class (filled with other children who have IEPs just as valid as your child's).

Life happens. People die unexpectedly. People get sick unexpectedly. People have last minute work meetings they have to attend or risk losing their job. If your school hasn't figured out a systematic way to cope with this, it's their own fault. Are you really telling me in the whole school, there's not one person to cover a class in an emergency? What happens if a teacher gets ill during the day?

And, I'm not exactly sympathetic to your anger about having to stay until 6pm for meetings and having to find alternate child care. For many of us that is a frequent reality of life.

Again, your anger speaks volumes about how you feel about special ed parents and children -- we are demanding more than is "fair", in your opinion.

If your job is in jeopardy because of one missed last minute work meeting, then it isn't because you miss one meeting. Parents of children with special needs often have to make adjustments in their lives and jobs to make it all work. It stinks, but it is reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The school DOES do things the way you say. 90% of meetings are scheduled perfectly during planning periods, months in advance, with parents and other specialists in attendance. The trouble with classroom coverage comes when the parent cancels at the last minute, is late, reschedules the day before, etc--then the school has to scramble to get us all in the room at the same time.

I have stayed at school until 6 pm multiple times to hold these meetings, arranging alternate child care for my own children so that I could be present at an important IEP that we could not schedule during the school day. For a parent willing to work with the school, who physically could not get to school between 7-3 pm, we will move mountains to make something work.

For a parent who just responds with, "Can't do 10:00 tomorrow, important meeting came up, I'll be there at noon", then yes, I'm going to be ticked off that I had to leave my entire class (filled with other children who have IEPs just as valid as your child's).

Life happens. People die unexpectedly. People get sick unexpectedly. People have last minute work meetings they have to attend or risk losing their job. If your school hasn't figured out a systematic way to cope with this, it's their own fault. Are you really telling me in the whole school, there's not one person to cover a class in an emergency? What happens if a teacher gets ill during the day?

And, I'm not exactly sympathetic to your anger about having to stay until 6pm for meetings and having to find alternate child care. For many of us that is a frequent reality of life.

Again, your anger speaks volumes about how you feel about special ed parents and children -- we are demanding more than is "fair", in your opinion.

If your job is in jeopardy because of one missed last minute work meeting, then it isn't because you miss one meeting. Parents of children with special needs often have to make adjustments in their lives and jobs to make it all work. It stinks, but it is reality.

Exactly, which is why schools need to be more understand of parents scheduling constraints. It is difficult enough juggling work schedules when: the school calls to pick up the child early for a "bad day" (multiple times) or when they can't get the child on the bus; therapy appointments; psychiatrist and psychologist and neuropsychologist and bloodwork appointments; multiple meetings about an FBA/BIP; multiple IEP meetings in a few months' time during a rough year. This all happened in our family in a few months' time. Often the parent's schedule should be given the most deference-after all, the school staff is doing their job and being paid to attend the meeting-the parent is juggling many other obligations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The school DOES do things the way you say. 90% of meetings are scheduled perfectly during planning periods, months in advance, with parents and other specialists in attendance. The trouble with classroom coverage comes when the parent cancels at the last minute, is late, reschedules the day before, etc--then the school has to scramble to get us all in the room at the same time.

I have stayed at school until 6 pm multiple times to hold these meetings, arranging alternate child care for my own children so that I could be present at an important IEP that we could not schedule during the school day. For a parent willing to work with the school, who physically could not get to school between 7-3 pm, we will move mountains to make something work.

For a parent who just responds with, "Can't do 10:00 tomorrow, important meeting came up, I'll be there at noon", then yes, I'm going to be ticked off that I had to leave my entire class (filled with other children who have IEPs just as valid as your child's).

Life happens. People die unexpectedly. People get sick unexpectedly. People have last minute work meetings they have to attend or risk losing their job. If your school hasn't figured out a systematic way to cope with this, it's their own fault. Are you really telling me in the whole school, there's not one person to cover a class in an emergency? What happens if a teacher gets ill during the day?

And, I'm not exactly sympathetic to your anger about having to stay until 6pm for meetings and having to find alternate child care. For many of us that is a frequent reality of life.

Again, your anger speaks volumes about how you feel about special ed parents and children -- we are demanding more than is "fair", in your opinion.

If your job is in jeopardy because of one missed last minute work meeting, then it isn't because you miss one meeting. Parents of children with special needs often have to make adjustments in their lives and jobs to make it all work. It stinks, but it is reality.

Exactly, which is why schools need to be more understand of parents scheduling constraints. It is difficult enough juggling work schedules when: the school calls to pick up the child early for a "bad day" (multiple times) or when they can't get the child on the bus; therapy appointments; psychiatrist and psychologist and neuropsychologist and bloodwork appointments; multiple meetings about an FBA/BIP; multiple IEP meetings in a few months' time during a rough year. This all happened in our family in a few months' time.[google] Often the parent's schedule should be given the most deference-after all, the school staff is doing their job and being paid to attend the meeting-the parent is juggling many other obligations.

I disagree. I do not think anyone's schedule should be given the most deference. Our SN children are not the only students teachers have, they can not be at the beck and call of one parent's schedule. It should be a mutually agreed upon time and respect for everyone's time. If you have to cancel once, fine and everyone understands, but if it is a habit- then that is a problem- regardless of if you are a parent, teacher, admin, specialist.....

As a parent, my DH has a tight schedule. So, we schedule the IEP well advance and he takes a half day off from work in case it goes long. There are very few jobs that do not allow a parent to take time if scheduled in advanced. Use FMLA if you have to.

I have found, if we bend when the school needs us to do so, they will b end when we need them to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The school DOES do things the way you say. 90% of meetings are scheduled perfectly during planning periods, months in advance, with parents and other specialists in attendance. The trouble with classroom coverage comes when the parent cancels at the last minute, is late, reschedules the day before, etc--then the school has to scramble to get us all in the room at the same time.

I have stayed at school until 6 pm multiple times to hold these meetings, arranging alternate child care for my own children so that I could be present at an important IEP that we could not schedule during the school day. For a parent willing to work with the school, who physically could not get to school between 7-3 pm, we will move mountains to make something work.

For a parent who just responds with, "Can't do 10:00 tomorrow, important meeting came up, I'll be there at noon", then yes, I'm going to be ticked off that I had to leave my entire class (filled with other children who have IEPs just as valid as your child's).

Life happens. People die unexpectedly. People get sick unexpectedly. People have last minute work meetings they have to attend or risk losing their job. If your school hasn't figured out a systematic way to cope with this, it's their own fault. Are you really telling me in the whole school, there's not one person to cover a class in an emergency? What happens if a teacher gets ill during the day?

And, I'm not exactly sympathetic to your anger about having to stay until 6pm for meetings and having to find alternate child care. For many of us that is a frequent reality of life.

Again, your anger speaks volumes about how you feel about special ed parents and children -- we are demanding more than is "fair", in your opinion.

If your job is in jeopardy because of one missed last minute work meeting, then it isn't because you miss one meeting. Parents of children with special needs often have to make adjustments in their lives and jobs to make it all work. It stinks, but it is reality.

Exactly, which is why schools need to be more understand of parents scheduling constraints. It is difficult enough juggling work schedules when: the school calls to pick up the child early for a "bad day" (multiple times) or when they can't get the child on the bus; therapy appointments; psychiatrist and psychologist and neuropsychologist and bloodwork appointments; multiple meetings about an FBA/BIP; multiple IEP meetings in a few months' time during a rough year. This all happened in our family in a few months' time. Often the parent's schedule should be given the most deference-after all, the school staff is doing their job and being paid to attend the meeting-the parent is juggling many other obligations.

+1000 - IEP meetings that last 2-3 hours is just one obstacle for working parents. We also have to coordinate med checks and specialists (for services the county doesn't provide) which is a drain on a family's available leave. Also, not all jobs come with leave. I am a private contractor so I do not get paid for hours I don't work. Other families in MCPS, parents work more than 1 part time job which also doesn't come with leave benefits. Whatever the situation, most parents want to be involved in their child's education. MCPS should be accommodating and consider families individual situations for scheduling IEP meetings. Sorry if it means school staff should be as flexible as they expect parents to be.

[Anonymous]

Parents get threatened with a letter that the team will hold a meeting without them if they ask the team to reschedule, but what does MCPS expect from parents when they ask to reschedule and for an extension waiver because of a scheduling conflict? I have to laugh because that is just what happened to me.

Professional training is deeply needed for MCPS staff. Treating parents badly really sets up an adversarial relationship between home and school and it creates a barrier to collaboration. It sets the tone that any issue will be a battle even before anyone sets foot into the IEP meeting.