Maret/GDS US - pressure cooker or more laid back but still academically rigorous?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At which point the school has a series of options -- e.g. don't offer APUSH, offer it but devote 2 course periods to it (as they do to math and science APs), limit the number of APs a kid can take each year.

Basically, the college has defined its position in a way that leaves it up to the HS how pressured the most rigorous courseload can be.

omg - GDS has AP classes take up two periods? They don't do this at every private do they? And what about at BCC? Isn't it just one period?

[Anonymous]

Many privates chools don't even have AP classes any more. I'm surprised GDS still teaches to a standardized test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many privates chools don't even have AP classes any more. I'm surprised GDS still teaches to a standardized test.

That's like saying many good colleges don't require the SATs. All of the good schools that emphasize academics like the Big 3 here, Exeter, Andover, TJ, etc offer APs bc there is a demand for them. You can save a lot of tuition if the college will give credit and it's a way to show that the kid is a more than capable student.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know any GDS kids who are really suffering under the pressure. The kids who take the rigorous schedule are the ones who love that sort of thing.

Every college bound kid at every private school is stressed out junior year.

or at any good public...that's what Junior year seems to be about.

As my son's junior year (at a private outside the immediate DC area but not too far away) comes to an end, I find myself so appreciative of how my approach to parenting has been informed by his school experience. He is a very high achiever - 35 ACT, 2320 SAT - and when he moved from public to private school in 9th grade, we were seeking "rigor." He really liked school from the start, but we - his parents - were a little disappointed in the lack of homework, and the non-existence of honors sections for freshmen. Everyone told us it would get harder, especially junior year.

Well, it has gotten a little harder - though not terribly so - through his junior year. But what's also happened in the intervening years is that he's had the room to breathe, to try new things in athletics and extra-curriculars, and to develop a meaningful and deep-seated academic interest in a subject that he's pursued in his own time (online through CTY and then in the summer) because it's not offered at his school. He has become that kind of outstanding student with a demonstrated commitment to a "passion" that highly selective schools seem to find so enticing. As a result, his counselor tells us that he has a realistic shot at HYP (even while making sure we all understand that a "realistic shot" is still probably less than 50-50 but also more than 5 percent). More than that, he is happy and confident. And it strikes me that if he had been weighted down with 4 hours of homework every night, he probably could have handled the workload and still made good grades, but there's no way he would have taken up 2 sports, and no way he would have had the time or mental energy to study an additional subject for at least a couple of hours every week. In short, the academic rigor would have forestalled him from ever doing anything except working rigorously on homework.

What I had initially viewed as a shortcoming of his school now looks like wisdom to me.

So how many students does this private school normally send to HYP, Stanford, etc. every year?

There is a difference between private schools and "elite" private and public schools that send 20% + of their graduating class to elite colleges year after year. And yes, they are ALL pressure cookers.

I'd say they send, on average, about 2 kids out of 90 per year. Are there really any schools in the DC area that send 20% + of their graduating class to HYPS year after year?

Many people who opt to send their kids to a "pressure cooker" are already a kind of self-selecting group. Those kids are entering the 9th grade with test scores in the 95th percentile, and there's a perception that going to an "elite" school where kids complete grinding workloads is the path to Harvard Yard. My point is that while that's clearly one way, there are also other ways, potentially ones that are more enjoyable and maybe healthier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many privates chools don't even have AP classes any more. I'm surprised GDS still teaches to a standardized test.

That's like saying many good colleges don't require the SATs. All of the good schools that emphasize academics like the Big 3 here, Exeter, Andover, TJ, etc offer APs bc there is a demand for them. You can save a lot of tuition if the college will give credit and it's a way to show that the kid is a more than capable student.

Fact Check: Exeter doesn't have AP clasess.

[Anonymous]

Yup. It is a select group and many (not all) private school parents send their kids to these schools and pay a lot of money with the hope that their kid will attend an elite college.

Many if not most of these kids who end up at HYPS probably would have ended up there no matter what school, public or private, they attended. But believe it or not, some kids thrive in these environments. Having a cohort of smart, driven peers can be stimulating in itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many privates chools don't even have AP classes any more. I'm surprised GDS still teaches to a standardized test.

That's like saying many good colleges don't require the SATs. All of the good schools that emphasize academics like the Big 3 here, Exeter, Andover, TJ, etc offer APs bc there is a demand for them. You can save a lot of tuition if the college will give credit and it's a way to show that the kid is a more than capable student.

Fact Check: Exeter doesn't have AP clasess.

Not per se but they have classes on the level so that you can get a "5" on the APs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many privates chools don't even have AP classes any more. I'm surprised GDS still teaches to a standardized test.

That's like saying many good colleges don't require the SATs. All of the good schools that emphasize academics like the Big 3 here, Exeter, Andover, TJ, etc offer APs bc there is a demand for them. You can save a lot of tuition if the college will give credit and it's a way to show that the kid is a more than capable student.

Fact Check: Exeter doesn't have AP clasess.

Not per se but they have classes on the level so that you can get a "5" on the APs.

There is a difference between teaching to an AP test and teaching at such a high level that successful students score a 5. Lot's of progessive schools (why I'm surprised GDS still has AP humanities classes) teach at such high levels that students do well without bowing to the AP curriculum. This is nothing new. Some of the most well-known schools in the nation began phasing out classes based on AP curriculum more than 10 years ago. AP is still going strong with math and science but the most elite math and science students are working at a level far above the testing range of the AP exams. My personal view is that AP classes are an insurance policy for diligent students who may have weak teachers - teachers who need the support of a standardized curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many privates chools don't even have AP classes any more. I'm surprised GDS still teaches to a standardized test.

That's like saying many good colleges don't require the SATs. All of the good schools that emphasize academics like the Big 3 here, Exeter, Andover, TJ, etc offer APs bc there is a demand for them. You can save a lot of tuition if the college will give credit and it's a way to show that the kid is a more than capable student.

Sidwell does not offer AP. but kids are encouraged to take the tests anyway.

[Anonymous]

Exeter offers Calculus, multi variable calculus, Linear Algebra,... Looked it up. Wow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many privates chools don't even have AP classes any more. I'm surprised GDS still teaches to a standardized test.

That's like saying many good colleges don't require the SATs. All of the good schools that emphasize academics like the Big 3 here, Exeter, Andover, TJ, etc offer APs bc there is a demand for them. You can save a lot of tuition if the college will give credit and it's a way to show that the kid is a more than capable student.

Fact Check: Exeter doesn't have AP clasess.

Not per se but they have classes on the level so that you can get a "5" on the APs.

There is a difference between teaching to an AP test and teaching at such a high level that successful students score a 5. Lot's of progessive schools (why I'm surprised GDS still has AP humanities classes) teach at such high levels that students do well without bowing to the AP curriculum. This is nothing new. Some of the most well-known schools in the nation began phasing out classes based on AP curriculum more than 10 years ago. AP is still going strong with math and science but the most elite math and science students are working at a level far above the testing range of the AP exams. My personal view is that AP classes are an insurance policy for diligent students who may have weak teachers - teachers who need the support of a standardized curriculum.

Don't think the kids who can and want to work at that level are "laid back" nor the schools that offer those types of courses in hs are known for being nurturing and gentle I.e. Not pressure cookers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At which point the school has a series of options -- e.g. don't offer APUSH, offer it but devote 2 course periods to it (as they do to math and science APs), limit the number of APs a kid can take each year.

Basically, the college has defined its position in a way that leaves it up to the HS how pressured the most rigorous courseload can be.

omg - GDS has AP classes take up two periods? They don't do this at every private do they? And what about at BCC? Isn't it just one period?

Two periods just means that the class can meet up to 6 times a week rather than being limited to 3 times a week. Re GDS & humanities APs -- no AP English Lit or Euro History offered, but AP U.S. History is offered and so are French and Spanish language APs. Also a few AP social sciences -- e.g. Psych and Comp Govt.

[Anonymous]

OP, while I agree completely that pretty much every serious student these days is working very hard junior year and feels pressure, I have a different take on the public/private and private "pressure cooker" question you posed.

The key difference among schools in terms of pressure is this: what are the expectations of most students in the school (and their families)? The reason certain schools have a pressure cooker reputation is not that they teach more than everyone else does or give more homework in high school classes, it is because schools skewed with a disproportionately large percentage of a very high achievers result in kids feeling that what is "normal" is exceedingly high performance. Some kids in those schools do it and enjoy it, and for others it is tough. If you want to be in the top quarter or third of your class (or higher), you may not be able to do it unless you are both academically talented and very committed. This is what happens at so called "top" or "Big X" schools in the DC area. I think this is also what happens within the BCC full IB program which seems like a private school within BCC junior and senior year but with a lot more kids around.

Why do people often talk about some other privates as nurturing and less of an academic pressure cooker? Is it because they are not rigorous? Not necessarily at all. At St. Andrews, for example, I suspect the "regular classes" may be less demanding than the "regular" classes at "pressure cooker" school X. But the strongest students do not take most of those classes and instead will be in honors, APs or higher level language/math classes that I believe are quite comparable to the most rigorous classes at a "pressure cooker" school. Yes, those kids get a lot of homework probably more like a Big X school, and yes, at times everyone feels some stress especially junior and the first half of senior year (until college apps are sent out). But, here's the thing. At a school like Field, Burke, St. Andrew's, Bullis and others, fewer kids are aiming for ivy league/top LAC type schools. So if you are not one of those kids, you feel normal -- not like you are laggard. And if you are one of the kids loading up on AP or equivalent courses, peer pressure is likely to play a smaller role in your decision to take them. You are more like the kids that some posters say thrive on the intensity at a Big X school much of the time. I will say that in our experience while the homework can get heavy especially in 11th and 12th grade, earlier for the kids in more advanced classes, the "nurturing" side of the school comes through in teachers appreciating the entire student's life and in most cases showing flexibility on deadlines where events -- whether school sanctioned extra curricula activities, important family commitments, illness (of course) etc. -- conflict with a deadline. All work must get done and bogus excuses are not long tolerated, but the school does respect effort as well as outcomes, and that can somewhat reduce stress.

As for block schedules, St. Andrew's is a bit of a hybrid. Usually, three days per week you have all of your classes, but Wed and Thursday are block days so you get that benefit on those days of only needing to focus on half of your classes (the others meet on the other block day). So it is not like a school where you have class every day, but it is not like GDS where the alternating day class schedule is more like what we had in college.

Didn't mean to write such a long post, but hope this information is useful as you mull over the options OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many privates chools don't even have AP classes any more. I'm surprised GDS still teaches to a standardized test.

That's like saying many good colleges don't require the SATs. All of the good schools that emphasize academics like the Big 3 here, Exeter, Andover, TJ, etc offer APs bc there is a demand for them. You can save a lot of tuition if the college will give credit and it's a way to show that the kid is a more than capable student.

Exeter doesn't have APs and I don't think Andover does either. Colleges are increasingly not giving credit. Saying schools like Exeter have classes similar to APs is not the same thing. Schools are preferring to design their own curricula for advanced classes. There is definitely a movement away from APs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At which point the school has a series of options -- e.g. don't offer APUSH, offer it but devote 2 course periods to it (as they do to math and science APs), limit the number of APs a kid can take each year.

Basically, the college has defined its position in a way that leaves it up to the HS how pressured the most rigorous courseload can be.

omg - GDS has AP classes take up two periods? They don't do this at every private do they? And what about at BCC? Isn't it just one period?

This must be GDS' secret sauce for Harvard.