Repeating kindergarten at same school - need advice /perspective

[Anonymous]

I'm the pp with the ADHD dd. Here is some of the research that I did.

In addition, students who have been retained typically have been required simply to repeat the same curriculum they’ve already failed--a prescription for failure, some research suggests. When these children finally are promoted, they often end up on a school’s lowest academic track studying a watered-down curriculum that ensures they’ll remain behind.

"Research shows that children don’t get better over time, especially if they’re held back as 1st graders," says Reynolds, who has followed a cohort of students in the Chicago Public Schools. According to Reynolds’s work, children who are retained in 1st grade are usually among the most underperforming students, and when they are retained in grade, they fall further behind.

[Anonymous]

Here's some more information.

I'm an elementary school principal and have been in public education for over 20 years. There is no solid research that retention does any good. For the first year or two, your child may do fine. But by the third year, children who are retained are found back in the same place--struggling.

Often, teachers and administrators want to give "the gift of time" thinking that they are doing the child a favor. It's not the answer. Challenge them to show you the research that supports their position. You wouldn't expect your pediatrician to prescribe a treatment because it "feels like the right thing to do" or because "it worked for another kid..." This is a decision that will impact your kid for the rest of his life.

The piece that is often overlooked is the age of the child in future years, ie 13 year olds in 6th grade or 18 year olds as juniors in high school. Thirteen year olds have different social needs and behaviors than the 11 year olds that start out in 6th grade. It's not appropriate to put them in the same class. At the far end, there is the danger of dropping out. An 18 year old who is struggling in high school AND happens to be a junior is more inclined to drop out. The greatest predictor for dropping out of high school is retention.

There are kids in my school, both with IEPs and without, who were retained before I arrived. The fifth and sixth graders who were retained at the primary grades are still struggling, they're still behind in reading and they clearly stand out in either size or by their "junior high" behavior.

Clearly, I feel very strongly about this. I take my job very seriously and get very frustrated when others in my profession suggest something that has such a profound impact without regard for research and what the negative implications could be further down the road.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have to say that he sounds a lot like my dd who was diagnosed with ADHD in first grade. If it were me, I would have him evaluated. My dd was not held back, and I remember meeting with her preschool, K and first grade teachers all with concerns. She won't sit still for circle time, she moves around on the rug, she is behind in reading, she won't complete her worksheets in class. Through all this, my dd was a social, happy child, but all of her teachers thought she was "immature." Holding back my dd wouldn't have helped because the ADHD follows her along. I will also say that a K student in my school was held back because of similar problems, and he was also diagnosed with ADHD later. His mom now regrets holding him back. She said that after the diagnosis, she was able to get a lot of extra help for her son, and that he should not have been retained.

So again, consider having him evaluated. You can do it at this age. If they suspect ADHD, then I personally would not retain him in K. Move him along, but give him the supports he needs. My dd had extra reading help and lots of other supports along the way that have been invaluable for her.

I wrote this, and I want to add that after my dd had extra help from the reading specialist every day during 2nd grade, and she attended summer school, she caught up in reading. In third grade, she is now at grade level. I'm not sure if your private school could offer similar help, but some interventions can help with the problems he is experiencing instead of retaining him. And I am not against retention. I think it can be useful in certain limited situations, but you need more information about why your ds is struggling before you decide to retain. It is not a cure all.

[Anonymous]

My nephew did. His parents told him and subsequently he told all his friends that his birthday was not at the right time to be able to go to the next grade. It wasn't really an issue at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's some more information.

I'm an elementary school principal and have been in public education for over 20 years. There is no solid research that retention does any good. For the first year or two, your child may do fine. But by the third year, children who are retained are found back in the same place--struggling.

Often, teachers and administrators want to give "the gift of time" thinking that they are doing the child a favor. It's not the answer. Challenge them to show you the research that supports their position. You wouldn't expect your pediatrician to prescribe a treatment because it "feels like the right thing to do" or because "it worked for another kid..." This is a decision that will impact your kid for the rest of his life.

The piece that is often overlooked is the age of the child in future years, ie 13 year olds in 6th grade or 18 year olds as juniors in high school. Thirteen year olds have different social needs and behaviors than the 11 year olds that start out in 6th grade. It's not appropriate to put them in the same class. At the far end, there is the danger of dropping out. An 18 year old who is struggling in high school AND happens to be a junior is more inclined to drop out. The greatest predictor for dropping out of high school is retention.

There are kids in my school, both with IEPs and without, who were retained before I arrived. The fifth and sixth graders who were retained at the primary grades are still struggling, they're still behind in reading and they clearly stand out in either size or by their "junior high" behavior.

Clearly, I feel very strongly about this. I take my job very seriously and get very frustrated when others in my profession suggest something that has such a profound impact without regard for research and what the negative implications could be further down the road.

But with a late august birthday, her son will be 12 the entire year of 6th grade and 18 his entire senior year, right? Does this change your analysis at all?

[Anonymous]

OP, I have struggled with the issue of whether to have my 3 year old, who has special needs, repeat preschool because of the same issues you've identified about whether he will feel sad not to be with his friends from this year and will suffer stigma either now or eventually for being older.

I read some of the research that I think the educator above is referring to that says grade retention is not a good idea. Here is a resource about this--it's special ed focused but the research is not necessarily about kids with special needs: http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/retain.index.htm

In my case we did decide to have my son repeat preschool. Obviously he is younger so that factored in--3 year olds will have less understanding about "repeating" a grade than older kids. But, we did struggle with it and I hope that in 10 years I dont feel like we made a mistake.

I would agree with the previous posters who suggested having your son evaluated for learning disabilities. If there are any, it can help you identify strategies that will help him. If not (and it's certainly possible he's just a high-energy kid in a structured setting) no harm done other than some money spent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's some more information.

I'm an elementary school principal and have been in public education for over 20 years. There is no solid research that retention does any good. For the first year or two, your child may do fine. But by the third year, children who are retained are found back in the same place--struggling.

Often, teachers and administrators want to give "the gift of time" thinking that they are doing the child a favor. It's not the answer. Challenge them to show you the research that supports their position. You wouldn't expect your pediatrician to prescribe a treatment because it "feels like the right thing to do" or because "it worked for another kid..." This is a decision that will impact your kid for the rest of his life.

The piece that is often overlooked is the age of the child in future years, ie 13 year olds in 6th grade or 18 year olds as juniors in high school. Thirteen year olds have different social needs and behaviors than the 11 year olds that start out in 6th grade. It's not appropriate to put them in the same class. At the far end, there is the danger of dropping out. An 18 year old who is struggling in high school AND happens to be a junior is more inclined to drop out. The greatest predictor for dropping out of high school is retention.

There are kids in my school, both with IEPs and without, who were retained before I arrived. The fifth and sixth graders who were retained at the primary grades are still struggling, they're still behind in reading and they clearly stand out in either size or by their "junior high" behavior.

Clearly, I feel very strongly about this. I take my job very seriously and get very frustrated when others in my profession suggest something that has such a profound impact without regard for research and what the negative implications could be further down the road.

OK, here. I really appreciate this post. How can I get him evaluated? Both the school and professionals have advised against it bc of his young age. I'm having such a hard time with this decision.

To address your comment about age... So many parents here, red shirt, so even if I hold him back he'll be the same age as many of his peers bc of his late August bday.

[Anonymous]

OP,

At three it is hard to tell. I think, if you can afford it, I would put him in a strong pre-k instead of K. If not, I would start him in K and consider repeating it. Of course, I am thinking of a traditional K--not the academic kind that seems so prevalent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's some more information.

I'm an elementary school principal and have been in public education for over 20 years. There is no solid research that retention does any good. For the first year or two, your child may do fine. But by the third year, children who are retained are found back in the same place--struggling.

Often, teachers and administrators want to give "the gift of time" thinking that they are doing the child a favor. It's not the answer. Challenge them to show you the research that supports their position. You wouldn't expect your pediatrician to prescribe a treatment because it "feels like the right thing to do" or because "it worked for another kid..." This is a decision that will impact your kid for the rest of his life.

The piece that is often overlooked is the age of the child in future years, ie 13 year olds in 6th grade or 18 year olds as juniors in high school. Thirteen year olds have different social needs and behaviors than the 11 year olds that start out in 6th grade. It's not appropriate to put them in the same class. At the far end, there is the danger of dropping out. An 18 year old who is struggling in high school AND happens to be a junior is more inclined to drop out. The greatest predictor for dropping out of high school is retention.

There are kids in my school, both with IEPs and without, who were retained before I arrived. The fifth and sixth graders who were retained at the primary grades are still struggling, they're still behind in reading and they clearly stand out in either size or by their "junior high" behavior.

Clearly, I feel very strongly about this. I take my job very seriously and get very frustrated when others in my profession suggest something that has such a profound impact without regard for research and what the negative implications could be further down the road.

OK, here. I really appreciate this post. How can I get him evaluated? Both the school and professionals have advised against it bc of his young age. I'm having such a hard time with this decision.

To address your comment about age... So many parents here, red shirt, so even if I hold him back he'll be the same age as many of his peers bc of his late August bday.

You should post on the special needs board and what area of town you are in. I went to Inova Kellar in Fairfax and had a great experience there. Since your child is young, there is a Dr Shapiro in Maryland who only takes young children who is supposed to be great. I think he is still taking new patients. The people on the special needs board could help you with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's some more information.

I'm an elementary school principal and have been in public education for over 20 years. There is no solid research that retention does any good. For the first year or two, your child may do fine. But by the third year, children who are retained are found back in the same place--struggling.

Often, teachers and administrators want to give "the gift of time" thinking that they are doing the child a favor. It's not the answer. Challenge them to show you the research that supports their position. You wouldn't expect your pediatrician to prescribe a treatment because it "feels like the right thing to do" or because "it worked for another kid..." This is a decision that will impact your kid for the rest of his life.

The piece that is often overlooked is the age of the child in future years, ie 13 year olds in 6th grade or 18 year olds as juniors in high school. Thirteen year olds have different social needs and behaviors than the 11 year olds that start out in 6th grade. It's not appropriate to put them in the same class. At the far end, there is the danger of dropping out. An 18 year old who is struggling in high school AND happens to be a junior is more inclined to drop out. The greatest predictor for dropping out of high school is retention.
There are kids in my school, both with IEPs and without, who were retained before I arrived. The fifth and sixth graders who were retained at the primary grades are still struggling, they're still behind in reading and they clearly stand out in either size or by their "junior high" behavior.

Clearly, I feel very strongly about this. I take my job very seriously and get very frustrated when others in my profession suggest something that has such a profound impact without regard for research and what the negative implications could be further down the road.

OK, here. I really appreciate this post. How can I get him evaluated? Both the school and professionals have advised against it bc of his young age. I'm having such a hard time with this decision.

To address your comment about age... So many parents here, red shirt, so even if I hold him back he'll be the same age as many of his peers bc of his late August bday.

But there is a glaring chicken and egg problem with this analysis. The kids who are likely to be flagged for retention are likely to have issues. There is no way to control for that in your analysis, so its honestly pretty meaningless. My take away is, it might not help. But neither will just pushing the kid through. The key is to figure out what WILL help. In our case, we are going with an alternative program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I have struggled with the issue of whether to have my 3 year old, who has special needs, repeat preschool because of the same issues you've identified about whether he will feel sad not to be with his friends from this year and will suffer stigma either now or eventually for being older.

I read some of the research that I think the educator above is referring to that says grade retention is not a good idea. Here is a resource about this--it's special ed focused but the research is not necessarily about kids with special needs: http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/retain.index.htm

In my case we did decide to have my son repeat preschool. Obviously he is younger so that factored in--3 year olds will have less understanding about "repeating" a grade than older kids. But, we did struggle with it and I hope that in 10 years I dont feel like we made a mistake.

I would agree with the previous posters who suggested having your son evaluated for learning disabilities. If there are any, it can help you identify strategies that will help him. If not (and it's certainly possible he's just a high-energy kid in a structured setting) no harm done other than some money spent.

Hi there -- did you have your 3 year old evaluated for LDs already? we have not done so yet - have seen a dev ped and have a dev delay diagnosis - but I would like to know how you did this. I thought 3 was too young.

[Anonymous]

I repeated kindergarten and it affected me my whole life. I felt dumb, not good enough. I still have self esteem issues. This can happen. However, every child is different.

[Anonymous]

Be sure to get a hearing test as well as educational testing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I have struggled with the issue of whether to have my 3 year old, who has special needs, repeat preschool because of the same issues you've identified about whether he will feel sad not to be with his friends from this year and will suffer stigma either now or eventually for being older.

I read some of the research that I think the educator above is referring to that says grade retention is not a good idea. Here is a resource about this--it's special ed focused but the research is not necessarily about kids with special needs: http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/retain.index.htm

In my case we did decide to have my son repeat preschool. Obviously he is younger so that factored in--3 year olds will have less understanding about "repeating" a grade than older kids. But, we did struggle with it and I hope that in 10 years I dont feel like we made a mistake.

I would agree with the previous posters who suggested having your son evaluated for learning disabilities. If there are any, it can help you identify strategies that will help him. If not (and it's certainly possible he's just a high-energy kid in a structured setting) no harm done other than some money spent.

Hi there -- did you have your 3 year old evaluated for LDs already? we have not done so yet - have seen a dev ped and have a dev delay diagnosis - but I would like to know how you did this. I thought 3 was too young.

I am the PP you are responding to. My 3 year old has special needs that we have known about since birth. I don't know when you can test for learning disabilities, but if you search or post on the SN forum I'm sure someone can answer that question.