How attractive would religion be if there were no heaven attached to it?

[Anonymous]

There are religions without a heaven attached, so obviously heaven isn't the only attraction of religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jews dont really believe in heaven and hell and even though there is discussion and theories of the world to come (which is generally good and not bad), very few religious/observant Jews act in the current world for that purpose.

Judaism is all about the present world and doing your best here.

I was going to say something similar and Judiasm is still quite attractive to many.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
not attractive at all. That's why religion is selfish. It's all about being temporarily good in order to secure a spot in the afterlife. that's all . . .

This is an example of sad misunderstanding of a religion (including atheism). Very typical among young Americans, and very distructive.

How is this destructive?

I own that line, btw.

The most selfless folks are those who do good on this earth w/o relying on "payment" in the afterlife.

How can you argue against that? or even call it "destructive?"

fear-based way of controlling the masses

I'm definitely not young either.

Your response is difficult to sort out, because you seem to jumble lots of assumptions together.

The most selfless folks may or may not be religious. Their religion may or may not say this, that, or the other about afterlife.

This is not what I called distructive.

Faith is not about control. Lots of other things are.


What I consider destructive is the loss of traditional faith with nothing to stand in for it. The emptiness of a shallow mind. No spiritual beginning to speak of. It does not lead to selflessness. Selfless people have faith, even though it may differ from traditional religions.

[Anonymous]

Accusing a, say, Christian of giving in hopes of a reward in the afterlife is like accusing an atheist of giving in order to get the tax breaks. You have to understand people are not always that linear LOL

[Anonymous]

Trolling against religion on DCUM must be hell on earth, in terms of pointlessness and the nasty character it must require to keep coming up with all that snark. IMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
not attractive at all. That's why religion is selfish. It's all about being temporarily good in order to secure a spot in the afterlife. that's all . . .

This is an example of sad misunderstanding of a religion (including atheism). Very typical among young Americans, and very distructive.

How is this destructive?

I own that line, btw.

The most selfless folks are those who do good on this earth w/o relying on "payment" in the afterlife.

How can you argue against that? or even call it "destructive?"

fear-based way of controlling the masses

I'm definitely not young either.

Your response is difficult to sort out, because you seem to jumble lots of assumptions together.

The most selfless folks may or may not be religious. Their religion may or may not say this, that, or the other about afterlife.

This is not what I called distructive.

Faith is not about control. Lots of other things are.


What I consider destructive is the loss of traditional faith with nothing to stand in for it. The emptiness of a shallow mind. No spiritual beginning to speak of. It does not lead to selflessness. Selfless people have faith, even though it may differ from traditional religions.

Selfless atheists have faith in humankind.

Having faith in humankind is not akin to having faith in some supreme being and looking forward to a posthumous reward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jews dont really believe in heaven and hell and even though there is discussion and theories of the world to come (which is generally good and not bad), very few religious/observant Jews act in the current world for that purpose.

Judaism is all about the present world and doing your best here.

I was going to say something similar and Judiasm is still quite attractive to many.

Yes, and that's why there isn't much "talk" of an afterlife. However, there is no denial of one either, as many believe death brings the soul closer to God. Furthermore, there is also some discussion around reincarnation. And souls who were wicked may indeed suffer in the afterlife or end up being destroyed.

[Anonymous]

Religion provides a community where you can work with others to try to become a better (more selfless, more humble, et cetera) person, whatever the state of your belief.

Now if you're an Ayn Rand fanatic, like the poster on the "Why Believe?" thread, then there's no point to selflessness, period. It's YOYO, every man for himself, social Darwinism where the strongest succeed. FWIW, that sounds like hell on earth to me!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
not attractive at all. That's why religion is selfish. It's all about being temporarily good in order to secure a spot in the afterlife. that's all . . .

This is an example of sad misunderstanding of a religion (including atheism). Very typical among young Americans, and very distructive.

How is this destructive?

I own that line, btw.

The most selfless folks are those who do good on this earth w/o relying on "payment" in the afterlife.

How can you argue against that? or even call it "destructive?"

fear-based way of controlling the masses

I'm definitely not young either.

Your response is difficult to sort out, because you seem to jumble lots of assumptions together.

The most selfless folks may or may not be religious. Their religion may or may not say this, that, or the other about afterlife.

This is not what I called distructive.

Faith is not about control. Lots of other things are.


What I consider destructive is the loss of traditional faith with nothing to stand in for it. The emptiness of a shallow mind. No spiritual beginning to speak of. It does not lead to selflessness. Selfless people have faith, even though it may differ from traditional religions.

Selfless atheists have faith in humankind.

Having faith in humankind is not akin to having faith in some supreme being and looking forward to a posthumous reward.

Again, not every religion examplifies faith in an anthropmorphic god.

"Faith in humankind" sounds like a meaningless concept. What is the nature of that faith? Trolling religion on DCUM? (LOL Loved the PP's post!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an Episcopalian and (currently) my religion helps me get through life day to day. The afterlife has never been a big motivator for me.

do you think there is an afterlife?

Maybe. But it's like what some atheists say; if there was no afterlife, does that mean I would stop doing the right things?

I do remember my 60 year old cousin in tears when his mother died because she would finally be with her son who died when he was five days old. That sticks with me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are religions without a heaven attached, so obviously heaven isn't the only attraction of religion.

This. My religion does not have heaven or hell.

That said, I do think the belief in heaven is a necessitating motivation for the type of person that does better in their life when there are discouraging factors (hell) and rewarding factors (heaven). This is completely okay and should not be looked down upon.

There are different types of people and it is my belief that the abundance of different religions is a good thing so that people can gravitate towards what works for them to become better people. If someone needs to believe in heaven and hell to keep their moral compass in check, than that's better than not having that religion in their life at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If heaven was not attached religion would still be attractive in the sense that the holy sprit still guides me and lives in my heart.

Do you think heaven exists?

NP. What heaven? Be specific.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are religions without a heaven attached, so obviously heaven isn't the only attraction of religion.

This. My religion does not have heaven or hell.

That said, I do think the belief in heaven is a necessitating motivation for the type of person that does better in their life when there are discouraging factors (hell) and rewarding factors (heaven). This is completely okay and should not be looked down upon.

There are different types of people and it is my belief that the abundance of different religions is a good thing so that people can gravitate towards what works for them to become better people. If someone needs to believe in heaven and hell to keep their moral compass in check, than that's better than not having that religion in their life at all.

So it's better to be controlled by lies than it is to learn how to self-manage?

fine as a temporary fix for a 5 yo but hardly acceptable for an adult

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are religions without a heaven attached, so obviously heaven isn't the only attraction of religion.

This. My religion does not have heaven or hell.

That said, I do think the belief in heaven is a necessitating motivation for the type of person that does better in their life when there are discouraging factors (hell) and rewarding factors (heaven). This is completely okay and should not be looked down upon.

There are different types of people and it is my belief that the abundance of different religions is a good thing so that people can gravitate towards what works for them to become better people. If someone needs to believe in heaven and hell to keep their moral compass in check, than that's better than not having that religion in their life at all.

So it's better to be controlled by lies than it is to learn how to self-manage?

fine as a temporary fix for a 5 yo but hardly acceptable for an adult

It's not a lie if you believe it

On a more serious note, you don't get to tell people what's the truth and what are the lies. It's as simple as that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an Episcopalian and (currently) my religion helps me get through life day to day. The afterlife has never been a big motivator for me.

do you think there is an afterlife?

Maybe. But it's like what some atheists say; if there was no afterlife, does that mean I would stop doing the right things?

I do remember my 60 year old cousin in tears when his mother died because she would finally be with her son who died when he was five days old. That sticks with me.

are you hoping for an afterlife?