Any Jewish parents who chose not to circumcise?

[Anonymous]

I'm the non-circing Jewish poster, and I want to clarify that though folks may not agree with my decision, I would not categorize them as bigots, or imply that this in itself has caused ostracism from my community. This is not a simple black and white thing.

[Anonymous]

...hit the submit button too fast...

There are a lot of things folks of every stripe in any community disagree on. A disagreement does not automatically equal bigotry, or mean that we have no common ground.

[Anonymous]

I was raised Jewish; my husband is Agnostic. We don't take the kids to any type of religious services. We just try to teach them that there are many different ideas about religion and hope they will make their own decisions when they are old enough. I don't know if we will try to expose them more to formal religion as they get older, but that's the idea for now. In any event, I say that so you understand my religious beliefs before I answer your question. My son is not circumcised. But I have a strong belief that formalized religious practices are not necessary to have a spiritual life. I'm talking about dietary practices connected with religion, or ceremonies. I feel very secure in this belief. I just fail to see how not eating fish on Friday or not being circumcised or not going to temple each week or not going to confession, etc. (all religious practices included here) can keep one from leading a good and spiritual life. I know this isn't common practice, so I don't mean to slander anyone's personal beliefs, these are just my own feelings. The bottom line is, if my son decides to follow the Jewish religion when he gets older, I feel he can do so with or without foreskin (who's going to check?) or he can make the choice himself.

[Anonymous]

It depends upon whether your idea of raising him Jewish includes the prevalent practice in the Jewish community (including the community and family in which I was brought up) of emphasizing that it's important to marry a Jewish person, and to marry one who also takes that intra-tribe commitment seriously. If so, and you want to raise your child to desire a Jewish wedding and to raise his kids Jewish, you might be better off circumcising because you'll be asking him to stay in a community that values/requires that.

From my own perspective, growing up, I found that message very offensive and yes, bigoted. Many people would and did take issue with it, but I'm talking about they way I felt. The message was that you choose a person based on their being born into a certain group; no one else is good enough. In my upbringing, the synagogue only gave charitable contributions to Jewish groups too, though Jewish people were among the least needy in our area. My family and their group of friends did the same. That left a bad taste in my mouth, and I am not raising my children in that mindset, though I am raising them to have a somewhat Jewish identity and to take the best of the belief system (seek forgiveness from your neighbors, because they and not a higher power are the ones you really wronged; give charity, though you need to give it to people who might not seem to have much in common with you).

Because I personally don't buy into the tribalistic aspect of the community that my own parents tried to instill, I am not circumcising my DS who is on the way. Family members will argue that I am "taking away" access to something that they value and that I do not. I believe that I am giving him (a) his whole body as it came out of me; and (b) the perspective that we don't have to alter ourselves to be accepted by anyone else. I am not raising him to believe that his identity hinges upon acceptance by the most fervent believers of one community that is 1.5% of the population. If he wants it that badly on his own someday (hard to imagine in that this is not the belief system of anyone he's around every day), then he can commit to it as an adult. It will be his free will, as it is my free will to keep him intact.

Decide how you want to raise him, and go from there.

[Anonymous]

OP here - thanks for the many responses.

Just to clarify, I was not raised to be very observant - we celebrated major holidays but did not keep kosher or observe the sabbath every week. I have recently joined a Reform synagogue, and I will probably always stay in the Reform or Reconstructionist tradition. I don't think my point of view would go over very well in the Orthodox community, but I am hoping that the Reform community will be more receptive.

The bottom line is that I think that a child's genitals are a private matter. I appreciate that this forum provides a place for me to raise the issue among thoughtful people with different experiences and perspectives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It depends upon whether your idea of raising him Jewish includes the prevalent practice in the Jewish community (including the community and family in which I was brought up) of emphasizing that it's important to marry a Jewish person, and to marry one who also takes that intra-tribe commitment seriously. If so, and you want to raise your child to desire a Jewish wedding and to raise his kids Jewish, you might be better off circumcising because you'll be asking him to stay in a community that values/requires that.

From my own perspective, growing up, I found that message very offensive and yes, bigoted. Many people would and did take issue with it, but I'm talking about they way I felt. The message was that you choose a person based on their being born into a certain group; no one else is good enough. In my upbringing, the synagogue only gave charitable contributions to Jewish groups too, though Jewish people were among the least needy in our area. My family and their group of friends did the same. That left a bad taste in my mouth, and I am not raising my children in that mindset, though I am raising them to have a somewhat Jewish identity and to take the best of the belief system (seek forgiveness from your neighbors, because they and not a higher power are the ones you really wronged; give charity, though you need to give it to people who might not seem to have much in common with you).

Because I personally don't buy into the tribalistic aspect of the community that my own parents tried to instill, I am not circumcising my DS who is on the way. Family members will argue that I am "taking away" access to something that they value and that I do not. I believe that I am giving him (a) his whole body as it came out of me; and (b) the perspective that we don't have to alter ourselves to be accepted by anyone else. I am not raising him to believe that his identity hinges upon acceptance by the most fervent believers of one community that is 1.5% of the population. If he wants it that badly on his own someday (hard to imagine in that this is not the belief system of anyone he's around every day), then he can commit to it as an adult. It will be his free will, as it is my free will to keep him intact.

Decide how you want to raise him, and go from there.

I think that this post clarifies the view that if you are choosing not to circ. that is fine, but you really are making a statement about how jewish you want him to be. I don't think that this is bigotted. I did not grow up in the type of community you describe. I grew up in a place that was filled with anti-semitism, and it's important for my kids to know that it's okay to be jewish. And this is one of those ways.

It's such a personal choice, though, and I don't look down on what others choose to do. In other words, this is my view of how to raise my own children, it has nothing to do with any view of how you choose to raise yours. I don't care if other people marry non-jews or choose not to circumcise. But it's naive to say that it doesn't matter. It does- that is why you are asking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that this post clarifies the view that if you are choosing not to circ. that is fine, but you really are making a statement about how jewish you want him to be. I don't think that this is bigotted. I did not grow up in the type of community you describe. I grew up in a place that was filled with anti-semitism, and it's important for my kids to know that it's okay to be jewish. And this is one of those ways.

It's such a personal choice, though, and I don't look down on what others choose to do. In other words, this is my view of how to raise my own children, it has nothing to do with any view of how you choose to raise yours. I don't care if other people marry non-jews or choose not to circumcise. But it's naive to say that it doesn't matter. It does- that is why you are asking.

9:22 non-circing Jew again. And OP, I apologize because I think I'm about to majorly hijack your thread, but this is really interesting. I grew up in a place that was so very, very Jewish. My little community was very much an enclave of sorts. We had all the Jewish holidays off in public school and were surrounded by Jewish culture in its many forms, and I thought I was a very assimilated secular person, until I moved away. It wasn't until I grew up and left that I realized how un-assimilated I was in some ways. So for me, with this very particular experiance that is very different from the above-quoted poster's, I made different choices about how to make my son realize it's OK to be Jewish. PP, thanks for the food for thought.

[Anonymous]

It is interesting that you mention this because at my Temple just this past weekend one of the speakers was talking about her history at the Temple and mentioned how the Rabbi was supportive when she made the choice not to have a bris/circumcision for her son and had a baby naming for him done by the Rabbi instead. So I think that at the right Temple (we are reform) this would be viewed as totally a matter of personal conscience and would certainly not be viewed as making someone not Jewish. This speaker in fact is on the Temple Board and her family including her son are quite active, go to Jewish summer camp and are preparing for Bar Mitzvah. (I had two girls so I didn't have to deal with it, but I think it is OK to do what you think is right for your family).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is interesting that you mention this because at my Temple just this past weekend one of the speakers was talking about her history at the Temple and mentioned how the Rabbi was supportive when she made the choice not to have a bris/circumcision for her son and had a baby naming for him done by the Rabbi instead. So I think that at the right Temple (we are reform) this would be viewed as totally a matter of personal conscience and would certainly not be viewed as making someone not Jewish. This speaker in fact is on the Temple Board and her family including her son are quite active, go to Jewish summer camp and are preparing for Bar Mitzvah. (I had two girls so I didn't have to deal with it, but I think it is OK to do what you think is right for your family).

That is so nice to hear. As a recovering Orthodox kid who still has terrible memories of how judgmental, exclusive, and doctrinaire that strain of Judaism can be, it warms my heart to hear about congregations that focus on what really matters-- what's in your heart and not what's in your pants. Hopefully there will be more choices like this as time goes on. DC is so rich with diversity-- ethnic, socioeconomic, and intellectual-- there is room for all kinds of interpretations of any tradition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that this post clarifies the view that if you are choosing not to circ. that is fine, but you really are making a statement about how jewish you want him to be. I don't think that this is bigotted. I did not grow up in the type of community you describe. I grew up in a place that was filled with anti-semitism, and it's important for my kids to know that it's okay to be jewish. And this is one of those ways.

It's such a personal choice, though, and I don't look down on what others choose to do. In other words, this is my view of how to raise my own children, it has nothing to do with any view of how you choose to raise yours. I don't care if other people marry non-jews or choose not to circumcise. But it's naive to say that it doesn't matter. It does- that is why you are asking.

9:22 non-circing Jew again. And OP, I apologize because I think I'm about to majorly hijack your thread, but this is really interesting. I grew up in a place that was so very, very Jewish. My little community was very much an enclave of sorts. We had all the Jewish holidays off in public school and were surrounded by Jewish culture in its many forms, and I thought I was a very assimilated secular person, until I moved away. It wasn't until I grew up and left that I realized how un-assimilated I was in some ways. So for me, with this very particular experiance that is very different from the above-quoted poster's, I made different choices about how to make my son realize it's OK to be Jewish. PP, thanks for the food for thought.

I'm the PP and your post helped me understand another perspective too. FWIW, and I think that this may have been clear from my first point, since having kids and living in this area we have belonged to Reconstructionist and Reform congregations and send our kids to school at a Reform preschool. If for some (weird) reason I learned someone did not circ their son I would see it as a personal choice and would not think of them as less Jewish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

That is so nice to hear. As a recovering Orthodox kid who still has terrible memories of how judgmental, exclusive, and doctrinaire that strain of Judaism can be, it warms my heart to hear about congregations that focus on what really matters-- what's in your heart and not what's in your pants. Hopefully there will be more choices like this as time goes on. DC is so rich with diversity-- ethnic, socioeconomic, and intellectual-- there is room for all kinds of interpretations of any tradition.

As a current practicing orthodox jew, I am sorry you had such a poor experience as a child, but not every orthodox community is "judgmental, exclusive, and doctrinaire." I happen to belong to a community that is open and inviting and respects everyone who comes into our congregation. We have members of our community who come from all different backgrounds, and currently practice at a variety of levels.

As for OP, In any community, I would hope no one would judge a child/adult for a decision that his parents made for him. Your son may have his own feelings about the issue when he gets older, depending on how he chooses to observe his judaism. As a previous poster stated, it may affect him if he chooses to marry a jewish woman who is bothered by it - and yes, it could be a valid concern for a jewish woman.

[Anonymous]

Yup, it may very well be a marriage issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yup, it may very well be a marriage issue.

In which case, couldn't the OP's son choose for himself to undergo circumcision as an adult? Even though there is a widely prevalent myth that circ is worse for an adult, this simply is not true. Unlike babies, adult male foreskins are already loose so there is no pain associated with separating it from the glans. Plus adults are able to receive the proper anesthetic for the procedure. Most importantly, they can self medicate post-op as much as desired.

I wonder if the orthodox Jewish community would make a differentiation between a man who had been circ'd by his parents as a newborn, versus a man who had been raised Jewish but circed as an adult due to his own choice. And really, isn't it the orthodox community that would be most concerned with circumcision in the first place?

[Anonymous]

Let's continue the debate. Oh hell yeah.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I wonder if the orthodox Jewish community would make a differentiation between a man who had been circ'd by his parents as a newborn, versus a man who had been raised Jewish but circed as an adult due to his own choice. And really, isn't it the orthodox community that would be most concerned with circumcision in the first place?

The orthodox community would not likely make the differentiation between someone who was circ'ed as an infant and someone who chose to be circ'ed as an adult. I only imagine it would be harder on the man to make such a choice.