Advice re Word Study Group

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]OP here. Why would we need more testing. We already know there is a problem. I would like advice as to how to address it with the school.


Father of HFA kid here. You need to tease out these other factors so you can get a stronger 504 or, if you want something effective, an IEP. You need to have outside testing done because the school will fight you for an IEP. You need to be able to have a tester or psychiatrist (we had both) come to the IEP meeting with the school district to act as an advocate to get special service via an IEP (504s are worthless). My high-functioning asperger's kid is now an adult and cannot write a paper to save his life. It's just the way he is hard-wired and no amount of special tutoring could overcome it. Same with dysgraphia, dyslexia, etc. You cannot begin to understand your child until you know - via a GOOD tester and GOOD psychiatrist (they are hard to find) what you and the school are dealing with.

[Anonymous]

Dysgraphia can cover an incredibly wide range of writing problems -- understanding what is being asked for in the writing prompt, generating ideas, responding on topic, responding in an organized fashion, responding according to the teacher-mandated conventions, incorporating correct grammar, syntax, spelling, punctuation and capitalization, writing the letters in the proper format, writing the letters properly in relation to the page (i.e. on the line, with proper spacing), writing with the proper grip, free hand and seat position, etc.

Problems in any one of these areas can cause significant trouble with writing. These cover a wide range of individual skills, which are tested by different kinds of assessment. For example, an OT should be testing for muscle strength and coordination to assess for problems in the purely physical aspect of writing. A neuropsych can also assess physical coordination (and our experience has been that the neuropsych can identify these problems more finely, whereas the OT was merely looking for the grossest problems -- YMMV). A neuropsych can also assess visual processing problems and visual/motor coordination which may result in problems aligning letters and words properly. A neuropsych or OT can also assess production of the individual letters, which if done improperly can soak up a lot of cognitive energy, making it harder and slower to focus on the overall writing. A good SPL or neuropsych can assess the underlying grasp of language -- semantics, phonic knowledge for decoding and encoding, grasp of conventions such as capitalization, punctuation, etc. The neuropsych can also assess for overall slow processing and organizational problems that are often a result of ADHD and associated executive functioning difficulty.

IME, our school would have been fine assessing our child as ADHD and trying to just get away with a 504 plan. In reality, I knew that my child had a long history of irregular language development. Thus, I presented comprehensive private testing that showed a language-based learning disability. The testing was sufficient to show that my child had dysgraphia. Sadly, the school did not know at all how to educate for this. But, I am happy to report with private intervention -- explicit handwriting instruction and practice, increased use of the computer for writing and editing, explicit sound/symbol instruction for decoding and encoding, explicit instruction in organization of writing, etc., my child is now a functional writer. I am sure that he will continue to need this type of explicit instruction as he ages thru the education system. Regardless of how he improved, he will still need accommodations throughout his lifetime (access to computer for writing and editing and extra time).

This is why you need more testing. Writing is a complex operation. At age 7, your child is just beginning to write and what is a "problem" now, may in another year or two become, more clearly, a "learning disability".

Remember any gap of more than one standard deviation indicates between achievement and ability represents a "significant deviation". Your school may try to convince you that since your child is not "below average" or "below grade level" there is "no problem" or he/she is "doing fine". This is not true. The law does not require your child to be failing to get help. If your child remains in the lowest word study group and continues to be "below grade level" or "hasn't made progress" or continues to fall behind as she ages in terms of percentiles against her peers, then she is "not responding to regular instruction" or "not responding to general education" and may need "special instruction" that is provided on an IEP.

Seven is a tough age to identify dysgraphia. That is not to say that it doesn't exist, but that school officials are more able to say that writing difficulties are within the normal span of development (which is very wide at this age). By 8 or 9, the school can no longer say that your child is within that normal development span. What typically happens is that writing expectations increase dramatically in 3rd and 4th grade, and the kid with dysgraphia who was "average" at age 7 is totally unable to keep up with the increasing expectations and is by 3rd or 4th grade more clearly "behind". Of course, as a parent, the question is do you want to wait for it to get that bad or do you want to intervene now with special instruction that you pay for privately?

BTW, when you get further assessment, make sure that you get the right kind of tester, as dictated by your school system's rules about testers. For example, MCPS doesn't accept assessments from speech and language pathologists in relation to "academic achievement" in reading and writing (even though SPLs are well-qualified in this area).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dysgraphia can cover an incredibly wide range of writing problems -- understanding what is being asked for in the writing prompt, generating ideas, responding on topic, responding in an organized fashion, responding according to the teacher-mandated conventions, incorporating correct grammar, syntax, spelling, punctuation and capitalization, writing the letters in the proper format, writing the letters properly in relation to the page (i.e. on the line, with proper spacing), writing with the proper grip, free hand and seat position, etc.

Problems in any one of these areas can cause significant trouble with writing. These cover a wide range of individual skills, which are tested by different kinds of assessment. For example, an OT should be testing for muscle strength and coordination to assess for problems in the purely physical aspect of writing. A neuropsych can also assess physical coordination (and our experience has been that the neuropsych can identify these problems more finely, whereas the OT was merely looking for the grossest problems -- YMMV). A neuropsych can also assess visual processing problems and visual/motor coordination which may result in problems aligning letters and words properly. A neuropsych or OT can also assess production of the individual letters, which if done improperly can soak up a lot of cognitive energy, making it harder and slower to focus on the overall writing. A good SPL or neuropsych can assess the underlying grasp of language -- semantics, phonic knowledge for decoding and encoding, grasp of conventions such as capitalization, punctuation, etc. The neuropsych can also assess for overall slow processing and organizational problems that are often a result of ADHD and associated executive functioning difficulty.

IME, our school would have been fine assessing our child as ADHD and trying to just get away with a 504 plan. In reality, I knew that my child had a long history of irregular language development. Thus, I presented comprehensive private testing that showed a language-based learning disability. The testing was sufficient to show that my child had dysgraphia. Sadly, the school did not know at all how to educate for this. But, I am happy to report with private intervention -- explicit handwriting instruction and practice, increased use of the computer for writing and editing, explicit sound/symbol instruction for decoding and encoding, explicit instruction in organization of writing, etc., my child is now a functional writer. I am sure that he will continue to need this type of explicit instruction as he ages thru the education system. Regardless of how he improved, he will still need accommodations throughout his lifetime (access to computer for writing and editing and extra time).

This is why you need more testing. Writing is a complex operation. At age 7, your child is just beginning to write and what is a "problem" now, may in another year or two become, more clearly, a "learning disability".

Remember any gap of more than one standard deviation indicates between achievement and ability represents a "significant deviation". Your school may try to convince you that since your child is not "below average" or "below grade level" there is "no problem" or he/she is "doing fine". This is not true. The law does not require your child to be failing to get help. If your child remains in the lowest word study group and continues to be "below grade level" or "hasn't made progress" or continues to fall behind as she ages in terms of percentiles against her peers, then she is "not responding to regular instruction" or "not responding to general education" and may need "special instruction" that is provided on an IEP.

Seven is a tough age to identify dysgraphia. That is not to say that it doesn't exist, but that school officials are more able to say that writing difficulties are within the normal span of development (which is very wide at this age). By 8 or 9, the school can no longer say that your child is within that normal development span. What typically happens is that writing expectations increase dramatically in 3rd and 4th grade, and the kid with dysgraphia who was "average" at age 7 is totally unable to keep up with the increasing expectations and is by 3rd or 4th grade more clearly "behind". Of course, as a parent, the question is do you want to wait for it to get that bad or do you want to intervene now with special instruction that you pay for privately?

BTW, when you get further assessment, make sure that you get the right kind of tester, as dictated by your school system's rules about testers. For example, MCPS doesn't accept assessments from speech and language pathologists in relation to "academic achievement" in reading and writing (even though SPLs are well-qualified in this area).

Thank you. No, I am not waiting for her to get further behind. I am getting her private tutoring and will have her evaluated for dysgraphia.

[Anonymous]

This could also be non verbal learning disability. Yes, additional testing is needed. Op it sounds like you have decided that dysgraphia is the only concern. It often accompanies other disabilites.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dysgraphia can cover an incredibly wide range of writing problems -- understanding what is being asked for in the writing prompt, generating ideas, responding on topic, responding in an organized fashion, responding according to the teacher-mandated conventions, incorporating correct grammar, syntax, spelling, punctuation and capitalization, writing the letters in the proper format, writing the letters properly in relation to the page (i.e. on the line, with proper spacing), writing with the proper grip, free hand and seat position, etc.

Problems in any one of these areas can cause significant trouble with writing. These cover a wide range of individual skills, which are tested by different kinds of assessment. For example, an OT should be testing for muscle strength and coordination to assess for problems in the purely physical aspect of writing. A neuropsych can also assess physical coordination (and our experience has been that the neuropsych can identify these problems more finely, whereas the OT was merely looking for the grossest problems -- YMMV). A neuropsych can also assess visual processing problems and visual/motor coordination which may result in problems aligning letters and words properly. A neuropsych or OT can also assess production of the individual letters, which if done improperly can soak up a lot of cognitive energy, making it harder and slower to focus on the overall writing. A good SPL or neuropsych can assess the underlying grasp of language -- semantics, phonic knowledge for decoding and encoding, grasp of conventions such as capitalization, punctuation, etc. The neuropsych can also assess for overall slow processing and organizational problems that are often a result of ADHD and associated executive functioning difficulty.

IME, our school would have been fine assessing our child as ADHD and trying to just get away with a 504 plan. In reality, I knew that my child had a long history of irregular language development. Thus, I presented comprehensive private testing that showed a language-based learning disability. The testing was sufficient to show that my child had dysgraphia. Sadly, the school did not know at all how to educate for this. But, I am happy to report with private intervention -- explicit handwriting instruction and practice, increased use of the computer for writing and editing, explicit sound/symbol instruction for decoding and encoding, explicit instruction in organization of writing, etc., my child is now a functional writer. I am sure that he will continue to need this type of explicit instruction as he ages thru the education system. Regardless of how he improved, he will still need accommodations throughout his lifetime (access to computer for writing and editing and extra time).

This is why you need more testing. Writing is a complex operation. At age 7, your child is just beginning to write and what is a "problem" now, may in another year or two become, more clearly, a "learning disability".

Remember any gap of more than one standard deviation indicates between achievement and ability represents a "significant deviation". Your school may try to convince you that since your child is not "below average" or "below grade level" there is "no problem" or he/she is "doing fine". This is not true. The law does not require your child to be failing to get help. If your child remains in the lowest word study group and continues to be "below grade level" or "hasn't made progress" or continues to fall behind as she ages in terms of percentiles against her peers, then she is "not responding to regular instruction" or "not responding to general education" and may need "special instruction" that is provided on an IEP.

Seven is a tough age to identify dysgraphia. That is not to say that it doesn't exist, but that school officials are more able to say that writing difficulties are within the normal span of development (which is very wide at this age). By 8 or 9, the school can no longer say that your child is within that normal development span. What typically happens is that writing expectations increase dramatically in 3rd and 4th grade, and the kid with dysgraphia who was "average" at age 7 is totally unable to keep up with the increasing expectations and is by 3rd or 4th grade more clearly "behind". Of course, as a parent, the question is do you want to wait for it to get that bad or do you want to intervene now with special instruction that you pay for privately?

BTW, when you get further assessment, make sure that you get the right kind of tester, as dictated by your school system's rules about testers. For example, MCPS doesn't accept assessments from speech and language pathologists in relation to "academic achievement" in reading and writing (even though SPLs are well-qualified in this area).

Thank you. No, I am not waiting for her to get further behind. I am getting her private tutoring and will have her evaluated for dysgraphia.

OP, I wasn't trying to flame you but rather pointing out that this is a real dilemma parents face -- if you get the private tutoring, you may be able to keep your DD's head above water sufficiently that she never gets an IEP and remains stuck on the 504 plan (which I think you said she already had). If you're lucky private tutoring may be minimal and very successful. If you're not lucky, private tutoring might be major, unsustainable, and not as effective as necessary since it isn't integrated into the day, particularly if your DD does sufficiently well not to be able to access greater supports in an IEP.

If you do get tutoring, be sure to document what you are doing. Schools are legally bound to consider any private support being provided as a mitigating factor when considering whether the disability is having an adverse educational impact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dysgraphia can cover an incredibly wide range of writing problems -- understanding what is being asked for in the writing prompt, generating ideas, responding on topic, responding in an organized fashion, responding according to the teacher-mandated conventions, incorporating correct grammar, syntax, spelling, punctuation and capitalization, writing the letters in the proper format, writing the letters properly in relation to the page (i.e. on the line, with proper spacing), writing with the proper grip, free hand and seat position, etc.

Problems in any one of these areas can cause significant trouble with writing. These cover a wide range of individual skills, which are tested by different kinds of assessment. For example, an OT should be testing for muscle strength and coordination to assess for problems in the purely physical aspect of writing. A neuropsych can also assess physical coordination (and our experience has been that the neuropsych can identify these problems more finely, whereas the OT was merely looking for the grossest problems -- YMMV). A neuropsych can also assess visual processing problems and visual/motor coordination which may result in problems aligning letters and words properly. A neuropsych or OT can also assess production of the individual letters, which if done improperly can soak up a lot of cognitive energy, making it harder and slower to focus on the overall writing. A good SPL or neuropsych can assess the underlying grasp of language -- semantics, phonic knowledge for decoding and encoding, grasp of conventions such as capitalization, punctuation, etc. The neuropsych can also assess for overall slow processing and organizational problems that are often a result of ADHD and associated executive functioning difficulty.

IME, our school would have been fine assessing our child as ADHD and trying to just get away with a 504 plan. In reality, I knew that my child had a long history of irregular language development. Thus, I presented comprehensive private testing that showed a language-based learning disability. The testing was sufficient to show that my child had dysgraphia. Sadly, the school did not know at all how to educate for this. But, I am happy to report with private intervention -- explicit handwriting instruction and practice, increased use of the computer for writing and editing, explicit sound/symbol instruction for decoding and encoding, explicit instruction in organization of writing, etc., my child is now a functional writer. I am sure that he will continue to need this type of explicit instruction as he ages thru the education system. Regardless of how he improved, he will still need accommodations throughout his lifetime (access to computer for writing and editing and extra time).

This is why you need more testing. Writing is a complex operation. At age 7, your child is just beginning to write and what is a "problem" now, may in another year or two become, more clearly, a "learning disability".

Remember any gap of more than one standard deviation indicates between achievement and ability represents a "significant deviation". Your school may try to convince you that since your child is not "below average" or "below grade level" there is "no problem" or he/she is "doing fine". This is not true. The law does not require your child to be failing to get help. If your child remains in the lowest word study group and continues to be "below grade level" or "hasn't made progress" or continues to fall behind as she ages in terms of percentiles against her peers, then she is "not responding to regular instruction" or "not responding to general education" and may need "special instruction" that is provided on an IEP.

Seven is a tough age to identify dysgraphia. That is not to say that it doesn't exist, but that school officials are more able to say that writing difficulties are within the normal span of development (which is very wide at this age). By 8 or 9, the school can no longer say that your child is within that normal development span. What typically happens is that writing expectations increase dramatically in 3rd and 4th grade, and the kid with dysgraphia who was "average" at age 7 is totally unable to keep up with the increasing expectations and is by 3rd or 4th grade more clearly "behind". Of course, as a parent, the question is do you want to wait for it to get that bad or do you want to intervene now with special instruction that you pay for privately?

BTW, when you get further assessment, make sure that you get the right kind of tester, as dictated by your school system's rules about testers. For example, MCPS doesn't accept assessments from speech and language pathologists in relation to "academic achievement" in reading and writing (even though SPLs are well-qualified in this area).

Thank you. No, I am not waiting for her to get further behind. I am getting her private tutoring and will have her evaluated for dysgraphia.

OP, I wasn't trying to flame you but rather pointing out that this is a real dilemma parents face -- if you get the private tutoring, you may be able to keep your DD's head above water sufficiently that she never gets an IEP and remains stuck on the 504 plan (which I think you said she already had). If you're lucky private tutoring may be minimal and very successful. If you're not lucky, private tutoring might be major, unsustainable, and not as effective as necessary since it isn't integrated into the day, particularly if your DD does sufficiently well not to be able to access greater supports in an IEP.

If you do get tutoring, be sure to document what you are doing. Schools are legally bound to consider any private support being provided as a mitigating factor when considering whether the disability is having an adverse educational impact.

I didn't think you were flaming me. I just can't stand by and do nothing...