How permanent is the Shepherd -> Deal feeder?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looking at moving within the District, and giving some strong consideration to something IB for Shepherd, both based on its performance, as well as the fact that it's in the Deal feeder pattern.

My understanding from previous discussions on here is that it's long standing, and has a court case to back it up. Can anyone provide a link/discussion as to the background of this? I'm sure the folks in Crestwood thought that they'd be feeding into Deal forever, but that seems to be coming to an end. I'd like to see what kind of assurances we have (or don't) about sticking to the Deal feeder pattern before investing in a new house.

Thanks!

Besides the fact that the neighborhood and school are very good and worthy on their own merits, residents are likely to retain feeder rights to Deal for at least the next ten years. Beyond that, no one can say.

OP here.

Interesting inputs, all. Thanks. I clearly understand that feeder rights are by no means guaranteed, but I wanted to hear perspectives on people more plugged into the issue than I am.

As for the neighborhood, it's gorgeous...but kind of boring and not very accessible by transit (a hike to the SS metro, which is itself a hike to downtown...or a bus that sits in lots of traffic) compared to our current place in Columbia Heights. So working through that debate.

Accessibility all depends on what part of the neighborhood you are. You can be 5-6 blocks from Takoma or SS metro at best. Also very accessible to GA ave and 16th street buses. You can also walk to Takoma or DT ss from many places in SP. It really is a lovely neighborhood. Many neighborhood events (Halloween parades) as well as street parties.

[Anonymous]

Excited for the new Harris Teeter coming to neighborhood in 2015 and to see how WR develops.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How come the lawsuit that kept Shepard in Deal was no help to 16th Street Heights/Crestwood being left out of Deal.

Was there a lawsuit or is that just conjecture?

My understanding is that Shepherd went to Deal after Paul went charter (before that door was closed). Deal wasn't full at the time, so it really didn't bother anyone.

Correct. The lawsuit in question is Hobson vs. Hansen, it dealt with whether schools fed Hardy or Deal. (Technically it wasn't Hardy but Gordon JHS, Gordon has since been rechristened Hardy.) Shepherd had nothing to do with that lawsuit, Shepherd has only been a Deal feeder for about ten years, since Paul closed. The lawsuit was long-running but wrapped up circa 1972.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looking at moving within the District, and giving some strong consideration to something IB for Shepherd, both based on its performance, as well as the fact that it's in the Deal feeder pattern.

My understanding from previous discussions on here is that it's long standing, and has a court case to back it up. Can anyone provide a link/discussion as to the background of this? I'm sure the folks in Crestwood thought that they'd be feeding into Deal forever, but that seems to be coming to an end. I'd like to see what kind of assurances we have (or don't) about sticking to the Deal feeder pattern before investing in a new house.

Thanks!

Besides the fact that the neighborhood and school are very good and worthy on their own merits, residents are likely to retain feeder rights to Deal for at least the next ten years. Beyond that, no one can say.

OP here.

Interesting inputs, all. Thanks. I clearly understand that feeder rights are by no means guaranteed, but I wanted to hear perspectives on people more plugged into the issue than I am.

As for the neighborhood, it's gorgeous...but kind of boring and not very accessible by transit (a hike to the SS metro, which is itself a hike to downtown...or a bus that sits in lots of traffic) compared to our current place in Columbia Heights. So working through that debate.

OP again: yeah, I agree. The Walter Reed development is the potential game changer (and value adder) for the area, which gives it a little more stock than I may otherwise assign to it. Getting into these pricey houses, the likelihood of returning investment gets dicier - so anything that helps push it makes the decision easier.

By "boring", yes, it certainly qualifies by new urbanism standards. However, within five years the new Walter Reed development should begin to come on line and I think that will change the landscape significantly for the better: new shops, restaurants, grocery store, etc.

The S4 and S9 buses aren't bad for heading downtown...the Express bus is 10 to 12 mins to Columbia Heights.

[Anonymous]

NP. We bought in Shepherd Park last year, and you're right, it's a gorgeous, sleepy neighborhood, especially the further west you go of Georgia Ave., towards Rock Creek Park--feels more like the 'burbs, definitely. While I would ideally have preferred a more walkable/accessible neighborhood, the locale works for us as a midpoint between our jobs (one of us works in MD).

As for schools, we started sending our kid to Shepherd Elementary this year for PK. I'd say we are moderately risk-averse: we hope that Shepherd will continue to be zoned for Deal, but if not and there's no other desirable middle school on the horizon when the time approaches, we will either try to lottery into a charter, move, or scrimp for private.

GL with your decision!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. We bought in Shepherd Park last year, and you're right, it's a gorgeous, sleepy neighborhood, especially the further west you go of Georgia Ave., towards Rock Creek Park--feels more like the 'burbs, definitely. While I would ideally have preferred a more walkable/accessible neighborhood, the locale works for us as a midpoint between our jobs (one of us works in MD).

As for schools, we started sending our kid to Shepherd Elementary this year for PK. I'd say we are moderately risk-averse: we hope that Shepherd will continue to be zoned for Deal, but if not and there's no other desirable middle school on the horizon when the time approaches, we will either try to lottery into a charter, move, or scrimp for private.

GL with your decision!

How are you liking Shepherd for PK so far? There's not a ton of discussion on here about it.

[Anonymous]

I grew up in Shepherd Park. I think Shepherd's been a feeder to Deal for more than 10 years. But even before it was officially a feeder, there were few, if any neighborhood kids that went to Paul or Ribeau (how long ago did that close??) and then on to Coolidge. It was just understood that if you stayed in public for junior high (now middle), you would go to Deal or maybe Jefferson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in Shepherd Park. I think Shepherd's been a feeder to Deal for more than 10 years. But even before it was officially a feeder, there were few, if any neighborhood kids that went to Paul or Ribeau (how long ago did that close??) and then on to Coolidge. It was just understood that if you stayed in public for junior high (now middle), you would go to Deal or maybe Jefferson.

Until about five years ago anyone could pretty much go OOB to any school.

[Anonymous]

16th Street Heights (and I assume Crestwood) was specifically put at Deal in Hobson v Hansen in 1968--not as feeders per se but as matter of geographic right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. We bought in Shepherd Park last year, and you're right, it's a gorgeous, sleepy neighborhood, especially the further west you go of Georgia Ave., towards Rock Creek Park--feels more like the 'burbs, definitely. While I would ideally have preferred a more walkable/accessible neighborhood, the locale works for us as a midpoint between our jobs (one of us works in MD).

As for schools, we started sending our kid to Shepherd Elementary this year for PK. I'd say we are moderately risk-averse: we hope that Shepherd will continue to be zoned for Deal, but if not and there's no other desirable middle school on the horizon when the time approaches, we will either try to lottery into a charter, move, or scrimp for private.

GL with your decision!

How are you liking Shepherd for PK so far? There's not a ton of discussion on here about it.

At the risk of being labeled a "booster," we're happy so far with Shepherd for PK. However, this is our first child and first experience with any public school system (our child was at a Bethesda daycare previously), so we admittedly have little basis for comparison. There are a couple of minor complaints that I don't think are unique to Shepherd re: communication, etc., but we're not expecting miracles in DCPS. FWIW, we really like the classroom teacher and aide, the IB curriculum, and our child seems to be doing really well thus far.

Of course, time will tell, as this is still the first month of school, and like many DC residents, we plan on taking it year by year. If we got lucky for a language immersion school like LAMB in the future (I know, fat chance), it's possible we'd leave. But for now, we're happy, she's happy, and we're all enjoying walking to school instead of a 1 hour commute by car daily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:16th Street Heights (and I assume Crestwood) was specifically put at Deal in Hobson v Hansen in 1968--not as feeders per se but as matter of geographic right.

You can read the whole decision here:
https://www.courtlistener.com/dcd/aemG/hobson-v-hansen/

No mention of 16th street heights. Here's what it says:
"It is FURTHER ORDERED, ADJUDGED and DECREED that the defendants, beginning with the school year 1967-68, provide transportation for volunteering children in overcrowded school districts east of Rock Creek Park to underpopulated schools west of the Park. It is FURTHER ORDERED that on October 2, 1967, the defendants file in the record in this case a report of their compliance with this order of the court."

I'd believe that the Deal boundary was moved in response to the case, but it wasn't part of the decree.

There's also this nugget:
"For junior high schools, the predominantly white (Deal) and the integrated (Gordon) schools each rank among the least crowded third of all junior highs. For high schools the Negro/white variation is even more prominent. Wilson, the one predominantly white high school, has been holding constant in the vicinity of only 92.3% of capacity; Western (integrated), growing slowly, now records 101.1%. The other high schools, all predominantly Negro, reach at least 108.4% (Roosevelt), leaping as high as 127.1% (Cardozo)"

Quite a change from today. Gordon is now Hardy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:16th Street Heights (and I assume Crestwood) was specifically put at Deal in Hobson v Hansen in 1968--not as feeders per se but as matter of geographic right.

You can read the whole decision here:
https://www.courtlistener.com/dcd/aemG/hobson-v-hansen/

No mention of 16th street heights. Here's what it says:
"It is FURTHER ORDERED, ADJUDGED and DECREED that the defendants, beginning with the school year 1967-68, provide transportation for volunteering children in overcrowded school districts east of Rock Creek Park to underpopulated schools west of the Park. It is FURTHER ORDERED that on October 2, 1967, the defendants file in the record in this case a report of their compliance with this order of the court."

I'd believe that the Deal boundary was moved in response to the case, but it wasn't part of the decree.

There's also this nugget:
"For junior high schools, the predominantly white (Deal) and the integrated (Gordon) schools each rank among the least crowded third of all junior highs. For high schools the Negro/white variation is even more prominent. Wilson, the one predominantly white high school, has been holding constant in the vicinity of only 92.3% of capacity; Western (integrated), growing slowly, now records 101.1%. The other high schools, all predominantly Negro, reach at least 108.4% (Roosevelt), leaping as high as 127.1% (Cardozo)"

Quite a change from today. Gordon is now Hardy.

Thanks for posting this and yes, that's quite a change from today. I'm assuming that overcrowded at that time was a pure negative in that more kids didn't mean more funding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Thanks for posting this and yes, that's quite a change from today. I'm assuming that overcrowded at that time was a pure negative in that more kids didn't mean more funding.

One of the complaints in Hobson v. Hansen was that per-pupil spending in the black schools was significantly lower than in the white schools.

[Anonymous]

Shepherd feeding to Deal makes no sense. I expect that to change, and Shepherd will be funneled to a more proximate neighborhood school. That whole section of town is improving though, so the school options will improve too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Shepherd feeding to Deal makes no sense. I expect that to change, and Shepherd will be funneled to a more proximate neighborhood school. That whole section of town is improving though, so the school options will improve too.

You can argue that Shepherd to Deal shouldn't be, but I don't think it is correct to say it makes "no sense".