school auction rant

[Anonymous]

To 11:04, I think it depends on the school.

Our preschool had an auction where there where any number of second homes available from modest off-ocean beach condos that were available only for weeks they were not otherwise rented out to mansions on Nantucket. Nobody thought anything about it.

At our new school, we donated a week at our modest second home because that's what we have always done. When the auction catalogue came out I was shocked to see we were one of the very few who had done so, and the other donations consisted of literally award winning homes that could rent for $10K a week. Now we feel uncomfortable for having donated. I think your school community has a lot to do with whether this is about displaying your vast wealth or everybody sharing whatever they have in hopes of making some money for financial aid for the school. I much prefer the spirit of the latter approach.

[Anonymous]

11:04 to 11:27:

My PERCEPTION that folks are showing off is really not true. I think it is very kind of folks to offer up their homes as a means to raise money for the school, whether the home is modest or fancy. So I commend you for your generosity. It is just my own problem that I would feel uncomfortable actually staying at someone else's vacation home, and the fancier it is, the more discomfort I would feel! I guess I would have to leave my pets at home, as they have a tendency to pee on rugs, etc!!!

[Anonymous]

OP here. OK, I realize it was a rant -- I warned you in the subject! It'd be one thing if the auction were a live and let-live kind of affair -- donate if you want, come if you want, don't if you don't want to. But the reality is that it involves months of pleading, pleading for donations, pleading for leaders of the class basket and creation, pleading for attendees. It's like constant fingernails on the blackboard. This is on top of pleading for volunteers for all the events run with the money from the fundraisers operated with pleas for help. And it tends to all drown out the pleading for for things that the school actually needs desperately, like volunteers to help in the classroom and lunch and recess.

[Anonymous]

I don't have kids in a school that holds parent auctions like that, but I think if I were, I'd just make whatever item I was putting up for auction an anonymous gift to the school. So for example if I am donating a weekend getaway to a B&B on the Eastern Shore, or even just a pack of gift certificates for 10 McDonald's Happy Meals, I'd give the details to the school (and I guess the school would think nice thoughts about me for having donated), but ask that the item be auctioned as an anonymous gift. That way, I'd feel no guilt or comparison or perceived criticism from other parents because they'd have no idea what I donated. Does this make any sense, or am I naively not understanding how the system works?

[Anonymous]

Auctions are just plain inefficient. Why should parents spend $100 to donate something to be auctioned and then pay another $100 to purchase something from the same auction? That's $200 to provide the school $100 of fundraising. And the time spent putting the event together and all the pleading alluded to by a PP is just further inefficiency. How about everyone who would like a social event just meet at a local restaurant on an appointed evening, have a nice time, and mail the school a check in the morning?!!!

[Anonymous]

Forgive me, and maybe I am just an old-fashioned public school educated working mom, but if I really have a problem with school auctions by private schools for operating funds. Frankly, if you need the money to run the school, then you need to charge more tuition. If the money is for financial aid for those who otherwise couldn't afford the school, then I have a different postion, it's charitable.

If the auction is really for social reasons, then I still don't think much of at least the OP's example, because it seems exclusionary. Find a different social event. There are lots of options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Forgive me, and maybe I am just an old-fashioned public school educated working mom, but if I really have a problem with school auctions by private schools for operating funds. Frankly, if you need the money to run the school, then you need to charge more tuition. If the money is for financial aid for those who otherwise couldn't afford the school, then I have a different postion, it's charitable.

If the auction is really for social reasons, then I still don't think much of at least the OP's example, because it seems exclusionary. Find a different social event. There are lots of options.

Totally agree with your first paragraph. My daughter is in a private pre-school with a tuition that to me seems plenty, and yet, I continue to receive all sorts of fund-raising requests from the school (e.g. gift wrap, candy sale, etc). I just toss out the requests but it seems odd.

[Anonymous]

I'm 7:31. To 12:51, I work outside the home and I was educated in public schools. I don't know what that has to do with anything. The majority of private schools fund financial aid as a line item in the operating budget. Only the very richest schools have an endowment that generates income for this purpose, and I'm willing to bet that they supplement the endowment income with operating income. So I don't understand your distinction between the operating budget and financial aid. Schools don't charge tuition in the full cost of running the school divided by the number of students because they have other sources of income that make up the difference between the bottom line on the operating budget and total tuition revenue. These include pure donations, such as annual fund, interest or dividends on the endowment, summer camp income, and the PTO's contribution to the school, in part drawn from the profits of the auction. Many of these other sources of income are "voluntary" and therefore involve only those who can and choose to afford them. If instead the school raised tuition for all, wouldn't that be more "exclusionary" than holding an auction?

To 12:21, I absolutely agree, if people would write big checks to the school as a charitable donation, that would be a lot more efficient. The problem is by and large people like spending money a bit better if they get something in return. So schools (and lots of other nonprofits) hold auctions. If they didn't hold one, they'd have to make up the income somewhere else.

And to posters who don't like the people running the PTO, the auctions or other fundraisers at your child's school, ignore them and save your mental energy, or get together a bunch of your friends and stage a coup. If they're as awful as you describe, I don't think it should be too hard.

[Anonymous]

I suppose that one can quibble over the way OP described the situation, and it is valid to say that if you don't like something, stay home.

But I also think that as a fulltime-job-outside-the-home mother, a degree of frustration is reasonable. So far my daughter has been in two preschools. The first of them had all of these events during the day, and asked parents to help, and it was always the part-time working parents who could do it, which meant that the same kids always had mommy there for the special events, and mine was pretty low on that totem pole because of my work, because the preschool was very far for my office, and because I was a single parent. It made me feel like crap that the school kept on putting on events that showed the kids that the mothers who needed to work full-time were less available. The fundraising was thankfully not done publicly like an auction. Being outed as the lowest income person at the school would have been one more lame thing.

My new preschool is better in that regard, which I appreciate. The fundraising hasn't been as bad. A friend told me that at her preschool, the Father's Day celebration was at like 5pm, but the Mother's Day one was mid-day. Guess mother's don't have anywhere important to be, right?

Bottom line, when a school sets up its parental-involvement opportunities to be possible for one group of parents and not another, it's tough for us to feel included in the school community. I feel that I contribute to my child's education by working hard so that she can have it. Being conspicuously absent at many daytime events that I'd love to attend, or in the case of the auction, conspicuously not bidding on something, bums me out.

Sure, they can go ahead and have their auction, but I can see why a parent with an outside career would find the whole thing kind of annoying.

[Anonymous]

12:51 responding to 13:42 - the very reason I mention my public school education is that I really don't know anything about private schools. I'll note that, that I am in the process of deciding between public and private for DC.

I will draw a distiction between funding for a cause - helping those in need - over helping contribute to an "operating budget" of an institution that serves a population that pays the institution for a service. I understand endowments, and that is not what we are discussing. We are discussing reaching into parent's pockets for what should be charged in tuition fairly, across the board, or not included in the operation budget. My thought is simply the schools around her charge $30K/year. What the heck do they need more money for? The costs of similar institutions in other cities, e.g., Atlanta, where my niece is in private school, are half that. It merely lends credence to the earlier posting that these auctions are being done for "fun" or to "show off".

Again, if someone wants to hold a fundraiser to finance a club trip or give a donation to a charity, I am all about that. I just don't see a selective 30K/year private school as charity (unless it is to help those that can't afford 30K/year attend to inject some realism into the place).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:12:51 responding to 13:42 - the very reason I mention my public school education is that I really don't know anything about private schools. I'll note that, that I am in the process of deciding between public and private for DC.

I will draw a distiction between funding for a cause - helping those in need - over helping contribute to an "operating budget" of an institution that serves a population that pays the institution for a service. I understand endowments, and that is not what we are discussing. We are discussing reaching into parent's pockets for what should be charged in tuition fairly, across the board, or not included in the operation budget. My thought is simply the schools around her charge $30K/year. What the heck do they need more money for? The costs of similar institutions in other cities, e.g., Atlanta, where my niece is in private school, are half that. It merely lends credence to the earlier posting that these auctions are being done for "fun" or to "show off".

Again, if someone wants to hold a fundraiser to finance a club trip or give a donation to a charity, I am all about that. I just don't see a selective 30K/year private school as charity (unless it is to help those that can't afford 30K/year attend to inject some realism into the place).

I am not defending auctions, but as an economist, I will respond to two points in PP's post that are incorrect. First, tuition is lower in places like Atlanta because costs are lower--same reason why housing is also less expensive there. Second and more importantly, provate schools practice what in economics is called "price discrimination." This is not actual discrimination, BTW, that is just the term. What that means is that many families who attend private school cannot possibly pay the actual operating costs, but some can. Take, for example, a school where the cost of educating each child is $2500 more than tuition (a made-up figure, but representative). Now, the school could raise tuition by $2500 per child and not ask for any donated money, but that would price many families out (those "on the margin" in econ-speak). Instead, the school asks for donation to the annual fund, or the auction, where some families contribute $100 or $500 or $1000, and others, who can afford it, donate $5000. It may sound counter-intuitive, but annual funds and auctions actually widen the pool of people able to attend private school, byt essentially having a few wealthy families modestly subsidize some others.

Hope this explanation helps.

[Anonymous]

PP,

Thank you. Nice, nonjudgmental, nonsnarky, response. Much appreciated.

/s/
formerly confused, old fashioned public school educated working mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I suppose that one can quibble over the way OP described the situation, and it is valid to say that if you don't like something, stay home.

But I also think that as a fulltime-job-outside-the-home mother, a degree of frustration is reasonable. So far my daughter has been in two preschools. The first of them had all of these events during the day, and asked parents to help, and it was always the part-time working parents who could do it, which meant that the same kids always had mommy there for the special events, and mine was pretty low on that totem pole because of my work, because the preschool was very far for my office, and because I was a single parent. It made me feel like crap that the school kept on putting on events that showed the kids that the mothers who needed to work full-time were less available. The fundraising was thankfully not done publicly like an auction. Being outed as the lowest income person at the school would have been one more lame thing.

My new preschool is better in that regard, which I appreciate. The fundraising hasn't been as bad. A friend told me that at her preschool, the Father's Day celebration was at like 5pm, but the Mother's Day one was mid-day. Guess mother's don't have anywhere important to be, right?

Bottom line, when a school sets up its parental-involvement opportunities to be possible for one group of parents and not another, it's tough for us to feel included in the school community. I feel that I contribute to my child's education by working hard so that she can have it. Being conspicuously absent at many daytime events that I'd love to attend, or in the case of the auction, conspicuously not bidding on something, bums me out.

Sure, they can go ahead and have their auction, but I can see why a parent with an outside career would find the whole thing kind of annoying.

My school is very non-annoying in that way, but if yours is, why not ask them to be more friendly and inclusive of all types of parents in terms of scheduling events where parental involvement is anticipated or desired? You might think they should already know this. But in my opinion it doesn't hurt to make a special effort to point it out to them. Obviously they're a bit limited because school runs from 9 to 3, and those are prime working hours, but they could do better. If they tell you to jump in the lake, I can't imagine why you would want to stick around there.

Once I checked a box on a school form to volunteer for auction set up. The woman in charge of that, who was much wealthier than I and who did not work outside the home, sent around an email saying, "let's all meet at 10:30 on some weekday." I got my back up about this since my employer understandably expects me to be working at that time. So I email back, "I'm sorry, but if you're going to be meeting at 10:30 on weekdays there's probably no way for me ever to make it." She immediately sent back, "Oh, what time would be good for you?" I think many people will be more accommodating if asked (maybe asked persistently).

[Anonymous]

At most private schools and pre-schools tuition only covers about 80% of the cost of educating your child... although you are paying a lot, it costs a lot to run a school in this town! Tuition (at least most schools try this) it set at least within range of affordability and those that can afford it donate more to the school, hence subsidizing your childs education. So if you are not donating at least 10-20% of your childs tuition every year to the auction or the annual fund, you are in a sense getting financial aid from those wealthy families you are being critical of

[Anonymous]

"So if you are not donating at least 10-20% of your childs tuition every year to the auction or the annual fund, you are in a sense getting financial aid from those wealthy families you are being critical of"

This last statement of PP is totally obnoxious. No one paying full tuition should buy into this mentality. The school is able to close the gap between cost and tuition in many ways, as discussed above. The donations from wealthy families are appreciated but I do not choose to view my limited ability to donate money on top of tuition as receiving aid. The school also benefits and holds down costs by allowing parents to donate their time and I supplement my dollar giving with time to a great extent. It is the snotty attitude expressed by PP that causes a lot of the criticism towards some of the wealthy families.