Secular Scouting?

[Anonymous]

In time, being a member of the Boy Scouts will be viewed similarly to being in the KKK a few decades ago. Pan average person could do it for purely social reasons, but the organization has a backwards and discriminatory bent. Your kids will be marked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - you do know that Boy Scouts of America does now allow homosexual boys in troops, right?

I think it is a fabulous program (much better than my girl scout experience) and emphasizes leadership in the high school years. Colleges look favorably upon Eagle Scouts because admissions officers know how difficult it is to cram in all the badge requirements, the overnights, and the leadership positions required before making Eagle. Our troop is "boy lead" meaning at this age the boys run everything. I am so glad we got involved. And we have all sorts of faith in our troop. Good luck!

But they do not allow atheists, which is what OP and OP's husband are, and which is how they are raising their son.

Eagle is a great rank to earn. Be aware that one requirement to earn Eagle rank requires boys to have references from 6 people to testify that they have been living by the Scout Oath (including Duty to God!) and Law.

"REQUIREMENT 2. Demonstrate that you live by the principles of the Scout Oath and Scout Law in your daily life. List the names of individuals who know you personally and would be willing to provide a recommendation on your behalf."

The list includes of references required include:
Parents/guardians
Religious
Educational
Employer (if any)
Two other references

If the Eagle applicant isn't a member of an organized church, he may ask his parents to be the reference to testify to the fact that the applicant shows his duty to God.

The Scout may NOT state that he doesn't believe in God or is an atheist, and earn Eagle rank.

Just be aware. Is this a huge issue for a Cub Scout? Probably not, but it depends how the parents feel about being a part of an organization that expels children and adults for saying they are atheist.


"http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/512-728_WB_fillable.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In time, being a member of the Boy Scouts will be viewed similarly to being in the KKK a few decades ago. Pan average person could do it for purely social reasons, but the organization has a backwards and discriminatory bent. Your kids will be marked.

Only if the militant, radical crazies take control...in which case everyone is screwed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In time, being a member of the Boy Scouts will be viewed similarly to being in the KKK a few decades ago. Pan average person could do it for purely social reasons, but the organization has a backwards and discriminatory bent. Your kids will be marked.

Nah. As long as it's a place for socially awkward boys to go there will be a demand for it. Parents want their kids to fit in more than they want to make a statement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In time, being a member of the Boy Scouts will be viewed similarly to being in the KKK a few decades ago. Pan average person could do it for purely social reasons, but the organization has a backwards and discriminatory bent. Your kids will be marked.

Wake up and read the newspapers! Scouting is changing. Gay boys are now allowed in. Let go of the hate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In time, being a member of the Boy Scouts will be viewed similarly to being in the KKK a few decades ago. Pan average person could do it for purely social reasons, but the organization has a backwards and discriminatory bent. Your kids will be marked.

Are you a Communist, or something? I didn't think there were any left.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In time, being a member of the Boy Scouts will be viewed similarly to being in the KKK a few decades ago. Pan average person could do it for purely social reasons, but the organization has a backwards and discriminatory bent. Your kids will be marked.

Nah. As long as it's a place for socially awkward boys to go there will be a demand for it. Parents want their kids to fit in more than they want to make a statement.

Yeah. Neil Armstrong, President Ford, Justice Breyer, Robert Gates were all socially awkward.

[Anonymous]

Yes, this is an unimpressive group of individuals.

Recipients[edit]
Main article: List of Eagle Scouts
Nine Eagle Scouts have been awarded the Medal of Honor: Eugene B. Fluckey,[55] Aquilla J. Dyess,[40] Robert Edward Femoyer,[56] Mitchell Paige,[40]:18–19 Thomas R. Norris,[57] Ben L. Salomon,[58] Leo K. Thorsness[59] and Jay Zeamer, Jr..[60]
At least forty astronauts earned the rank as a youth, including Neil Armstrong and Charles Duke who walked on the moon.[61] Businessmen who have earned the award include Wal-Mart founder Sam Walton,[40]:88–89 Marriott International CEO J. W. Marriott, Jr.,[37] and Michael Bloomberg, Mayor of New York City and founder of Bloomberg L.P.
Famous Eagle Scouts
President Gerald Ford
Gerald R. Ford, 38th President of the United States
Alt text
Steven Spielberg, Academy Award-winning film director
Michael Bloomberg
Michael Bloomberg, NYC Mayor and founder of Bloomberg, L.P.
Neil Armstrong
Neil A. Armstrong, first person to set foot on the moon
Stephen Breyer
Stephen Breyer, Associate Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court
Robert Gates
Robert Gates, 22nd U.S. Secretary of Defense, current President of the Boy Scouts of America
Thomas Norris
Thomas R. Norris, U.S. Navy Seal and Medal of Honor recipient
Eagle Scouts who have held public office include 38th President of the United States Gerald R. Ford,[62] 22nd U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates,[37][40]:217–218 13th and 21st U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld,[63] and Associate Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court Stephen Breyer.[40]:56–59[64]
In academia, Eagle Scouts are represented by Pulitzer Prize-winner E.O. Wilson, Gordon Gee, former President of Ohio State University, and Kim B. Clark former Dean of the Harvard Business School.[37][65] Entertainers who earned the BSA's highest rank include documentary filmmaker and Academy Award-winner Michael Moore,[66] Academy Award-winning director Steven Spielberg,[67] and Mike Rowe, host of the Discovery Channel's Dirty Jobs.[68]
Athletes who have earned Eagle Scout include Basketball Hall of Famer (later U.S. Senator) Bill Bradley, MLB All-Star Shane Victorino, and Notre Dame and San Diego Chargers star linebacker Manti Te'o. Religious leaders who have earned Eagle Scout include Cardinal Archbishop Emeritus of Baltimore William H. Keeler, Church of Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard,[69] and Howard W. Hunter, 14th president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.[70]
I

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In time, being a member of the Boy Scouts will be viewed similarly to being in the KKK a few decades ago. Pan average person could do it for purely social reasons, but the organization has a backwards and discriminatory bent. Your kids will be marked.

Nah. As long as it's a place for socially awkward boys to go there will be a demand for it. Parents want their kids to fit in more than they want to make a statement.

Yeah. Neil Armstrong, President Ford, Justice Breyer, Robert Gates were all socially awkward.

I see more SN boys in Scouting than in any other single activity. There is some structure and always a slew of parents attending events. All parents are expected to be authority figures so in theory there is better management of a group of kids. Of course, typically the den meetings and pack meetings are nothing short of chaos with brief stretches of organized activity. For having a place where their kid is accepted more easily than, for example, in a traditional sport, I doubt these parents are going to make a political stand. They play the "the national policies don't filter down to our pack/den level so we're OK with it" card.

So I don't think BS is going anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In time, being a member of the Boy Scouts will be viewed similarly to being in the KKK a few decades ago. Pan average person could do it for purely social reasons, but the organization has a backwards and discriminatory bent. Your kids will be marked.

Nah. As long as it's a place for socially awkward boys to go there will be a demand for it. Parents want their kids to fit in more than they want to make a statement.

Yeah. Neil Armstrong, President Ford, Justice Breyer, Robert Gates were all socially awkward.

I see more SN boys in Scouting than in any other single activity. There is some structure and always a slew of parents attending events. All parents are expected to be authority figures so in theory there is better management of a group of kids. Of course, typically the den meetings and pack meetings are nothing short of chaos with brief stretches of organized activity. For having a place where their kid is accepted more easily than, for example, in a traditional sport, I doubt these parents are going to make a political stand. They play the "the national policies don't filter down to our pack/den level so we're OK with it" card.


What ARE you trying to say? I've read your post three times. Yes, some packs have SN kids. Shockingly, some schools even have them. My God, there may even be some SN kids living right on your own street. Honestly. . .

There are even packs set up FOR SN kids only.

At the Cub Scout level, the meetings are chaotic but adults are in charge. By the time you get into high school you most likely will be in a boy-lead troop meaning the Senior Patrol Leader, a high school student, is in charge of setting up and running the meeting himself. The young men are, by then, all well-behaved. They have helped each other in the Eagle scouts and everyone makes an attempt to attend every Eagle ceremony and dinner after. It has been a wonderful experience for our DS, from cub years thru starting Eagle project now. What "political stand" are you talking about? BSA now allows gay boy scouts in. Has the issue ever been discussed in our troop or amongst parents? No. is the troop open to a gay scout. Yes. So what's your beef about scouting. It has completely changed my son's life.

So I don't think BS is going anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In time, being a member of the Boy Scouts will be viewed similarly to being in the KKK a few decades ago. Pan average person could do it for purely social reasons, but the organization has a backwards and discriminatory bent. Your kids will be marked.

Are you kidding? The Klan killed and terrorized people. You don't have to like Boy Scouts, but that analogy is insane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In time, being a member of the Boy Scouts will be viewed similarly to being in the KKK a few decades ago. Pan average person could do it for purely social reasons, but the organization has a backwards and discriminatory bent. Your kids will be marked.

Nah. As long as it's a place for socially awkward boys to go there will be a demand for it. Parents want their kids to fit in more than they want to make a statement.

Yeah. Neil Armstrong, President Ford, Justice Breyer, Robert Gates were all socially awkward.

I see more SN boys in Scouting than in any other single activity. There is some structure and always a slew of parents attending events. All parents are expected to be authority figures so in theory there is better management of a group of kids. Of course, typically the den meetings and pack meetings are nothing short of chaos with brief stretches of organized activity. For having a place where their kid is accepted more easily than, for example, in a traditional sport, I doubt these parents are going to make a political stand. They play the "the national policies don't filter down to our pack/den level so we're OK with it" card.


What ARE you trying to say? I've read your post three times. Yes, some packs have SN kids. Shockingly, some schools even have them. My God, there may even be some SN kids living right on your own street. Honestly. . .

There are even packs set up FOR SN kids only.

At the Cub Scout level, the meetings are chaotic but adults are in charge. By the time you get into high school you most likely will be in a boy-lead troop meaning the Senior Patrol Leader, a high school student, is in charge of setting up and running the meeting himself. The young men are, by then, all well-behaved. They have helped each other in the Eagle scouts and everyone makes an attempt to attend every Eagle ceremony and dinner after. It has been a wonderful experience for our DS, from cub years thru starting Eagle project now. What "political stand" are you talking about? BSA now allows gay boy scouts in. Has the issue ever been discussed in our troop or amongst parents? No. is the troop open to a gay scout. Yes. So what's your beef about scouting. It has completely changed my son's life.

So I don't think BS is going anywhere.

My post was in response to the person who suggested the BS would be akin to the KKK, a shrinking and shameful organization. That isn't so, IMO. There are too many boys who start Cubs and Weebs, even with the membership fall off at Boy Scouts for the organization to disappear.

One reason for the strong numbers, especially in the younger grades, is parents looking for a place for their quirky sons to fit in while being surrounding by involved parents. No shame in that. But what I also touched on was the fact that parents will downplay the Scouts position on homosexuality and inclusion of a higher power. Yes, gay Scouts are allowed into the organization, but as soon as they graduate out of the program they are not allowed to be leaders or officially involved with the boys. How is that tolerant? "Hey, Eagle Scout, you have been deeply involved in this organization for most of your life, but you're really not the type of person we want around the boys now that you are a gay MAN."

How is that not an offputting stance for those who support gay equality? So those who report to be outraged by gay discrimination but keep their boys in Scouts because "it's not like that in OUR pack" are putting their child's needs before making a stand. I'm not criticizing, I'd do the same, but it is what it is.

[Anonymous]

There's nothing special about "Christian morality".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In time, being a member of the Boy Scouts will be viewed similarly to being in the KKK a few decades ago. Pan average person could do it for purely social reasons, but the organization has a backwards and discriminatory bent. Your kids will be marked.

Nah. As long as it's a place for socially awkward boys to go there will be a demand for it. Parents want their kids to fit in more than they want to make a statement.

Yeah. Neil Armstrong, President Ford, Justice Breyer, Robert Gates were all socially awkward.

I see more SN boys in Scouting than in any other single activity. There is some structure and always a slew of parents attending events. All parents are expected to be authority figures so in theory there is better management of a group of kids. Of course, typically the den meetings and pack meetings are nothing short of chaos with brief stretches of organized activity. For having a place where their kid is accepted more easily than, for example, in a traditional sport, I doubt these parents are going to make a political stand. They play the "the national policies don't filter down to our pack/den level so we're OK with it" card.


What ARE you trying to say? I've read your post three times. Yes, some packs have SN kids. Shockingly, some schools even have them. My God, there may even be some SN kids living right on your own street. Honestly. . .

There are even packs set up FOR SN kids only.

At the Cub Scout level, the meetings are chaotic but adults are in charge. By the time you get into high school you most likely will be in a boy-lead troop meaning the Senior Patrol Leader, a high school student, is in charge of setting up and running the meeting himself. The young men are, by then, all well-behaved. They have helped each other in the Eagle scouts and everyone makes an attempt to attend every Eagle ceremony and dinner after. It has been a wonderful experience for our DS, from cub years thru starting Eagle project now. What "political stand" are you talking about? BSA now allows gay boy scouts in. Has the issue ever been discussed in our troop or amongst parents? No. is the troop open to a gay scout. Yes. So what's your beef about scouting. It has completely changed my son's life.

So I don't think BS is going anywhere.

My post was in response to the person who suggested the BS would be akin to the KKK, a shrinking and shameful organization. That isn't so, IMO. There are too many boys who start Cubs and Weebs, even with the membership fall off at Boy Scouts for the organization to disappear.

One reason for the strong numbers, especially in the younger grades, is parents looking for a place for their quirky sons to fit in while being surrounding by involved parents. No shame in that. But what I also touched on was the fact that parents will downplay the Scouts position on homosexuality and inclusion of a higher power. Yes, gay Scouts are allowed into the organization, but as soon as they graduate out of the program they are not allowed to be leaders or officially involved with the boys. How is that tolerant? "Hey, Eagle Scout, you have been deeply involved in this organization for most of your life, but you're really not the type of person we want around the boys now that you are a gay MAN."

How is that not an offputting stance for those who support gay equality? So those who report to be outraged by gay discrimination but keep their boys in Scouts because "it's not like that in OUR pack" are putting their child's needs before making a stand. I'm not criticizing, I'd do the same, but it is what it is.

It's called legal liability my dear. Do you want your son in a pup tent alone with an older gay man? Even if nothing happens, the boy could accuse the Scout Leader. BSA has wrestled with this for years but because camping is such a big component of scouting, BSA can't figure out a way to ensure that all the boys are safe in camping situations. Did you know that a Boy Scout father-leader cannot be put in a tent with a boy other than his son? Again, it's liability. One one camping trip my DH had to go sleep in his car because the only available tents had boys other than his son in them. That's not allowed. BSA leaders have to go through serious on-site training.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In time, being a member of the Boy Scouts will be viewed similarly to being in the KKK a few decades ago. Pan average person could do it for purely social reasons, but the organization has a backwards and discriminatory bent. Your kids will be marked.

Nah. As long as it's a place for socially awkward boys to go there will be a demand for it. Parents want their kids to fit in more than they want to make a statement.

Yeah. Neil Armstrong, President Ford, Justice Breyer, Robert Gates were all socially awkward.

I see more SN boys in Scouting than in any other single activity. There is some structure and always a slew of parents attending events. All parents are expected to be authority figures so in theory there is better management of a group of kids. Of course, typically the den meetings and pack meetings are nothing short of chaos with brief stretches of organized activity. For having a place where their kid is accepted more easily than, for example, in a traditional sport, I doubt these parents are going to make a political stand. They play the "the national policies don't filter down to our pack/den level so we're OK with it" card.


What ARE you trying to say? I've read your post three times. Yes, some packs have SN kids. Shockingly, some schools even have them. My God, there may even be some SN kids living right on your own street. Honestly. . .

There are even packs set up FOR SN kids only.

At the Cub Scout level, the meetings are chaotic but adults are in charge. By the time you get into high school you most likely will be in a boy-lead troop meaning the Senior Patrol Leader, a high school student, is in charge of setting up and running the meeting himself. The young men are, by then, all well-behaved. They have helped each other in the Eagle scouts and everyone makes an attempt to attend every Eagle ceremony and dinner after. It has been a wonderful experience for our DS, from cub years thru starting Eagle project now. What "political stand" are you talking about? BSA now allows gay boy scouts in. Has the issue ever been discussed in our troop or amongst parents? No. is the troop open to a gay scout. Yes. So what's your beef about scouting. It has completely changed my son's life.

So I don't think BS is going anywhere.

My post was in response to the person who suggested the BS would be akin to the KKK, a shrinking and shameful organization. That isn't so, IMO. There are too many boys who start Cubs and Weebs, even with the membership fall off at Boy Scouts for the organization to disappear.

One reason for the strong numbers, especially in the younger grades, is parents looking for a place for their quirky sons to fit in while being surrounding by involved parents. No shame in that. But what I also touched on was the fact that parents will downplay the Scouts position on homosexuality and inclusion of a higher power. Yes, gay Scouts are allowed into the organization, but as soon as they graduate out of the program they are not allowed to be leaders or officially involved with the boys. How is that tolerant? "Hey, Eagle Scout, you have been deeply involved in this organization for most of your life, but you're really not the type of person we want around the boys now that you are a gay MAN."

How is that not an offputting stance for those who support gay equality? So those who report to be outraged by gay discrimination but keep their boys in Scouts because "it's not like that in OUR pack" are putting their child's needs before making a stand. I'm not criticizing, I'd do the same, but it is what it is.

Look, attitudes toward homosexuals have evolved a lot as of late in this country. Many people aren't quite comfortable with the extent of social change (esp on marriage), and you have to acknowledge their viewpoint even if you don't agree. Moreover, the Scouts in rejecting homosexuals as scout leaders are perhaps being overly cautious so as to avoid getting caught up in the extent of problems that the Catholic church has had with predator priests.