highly gifted centers (HGCs) advice on how to prepare kid for acceptance or rejection

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We didn't even tell our kid he was going to take a test for HGC. She didn't know what HGC was. All these things can be explained and discussed only after the acceptance letter comes. If you do this, your kid will probably not notice or care too much if other kids discuss they have been accepted.

While it seems to have worked out for you, there is very little chance that no one at your child's school will not tell him what the testing was about. All it takes is one kid who has been very prepped and informed by his/her parents to tell everyone else. He/She will also likely hear who got in at school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen HGC kids really taking it hard when they don't get into the magnet MS. Very hard when most other kids get in and now you have to go back to regular middle kids without the friends you made over the last two years.

Anecdotally, it was not my impression this year that "most" of the kids in the elementary HGC got into the middle-school HGC. Maybe half did, which means that half didn't.

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A HUGE chunk of HGC kids do not apply to the magnet MS, because of the commute. For some kids the commute to the magnet MS and magnet HS, eats away 2 hours or more of their time everyday. They are foregoing sleep, socializing and extra-curricular activities for this privilege.

So, if you assume that in school with 100 HGC kids, 50% of HGC kids apply and 60% of those get in, - it results in 30 / 100 HGC kids getting into Magnet MS. The kids who have not applied to Magnet MS will not feel bad for not getting in...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen HGC kids really taking it hard when they don't get into the magnet MS. Very hard when most other kids get in and now you have to go back to regular middle kids without the friends you made over the last two years.

Anecdotally, it was not my impression this year that "most" of the kids in the elementary HGC got into the middle-school HGC. Maybe half did, which means that half didn't.

.
A HUGE chunk of HGC kids do not apply to the magnet MS, because of the commute. For some kids the commute to the magnet MS and magnet HS, eats away 2 hours or more of their time everyday. They are foregoing sleep, socializing and extra-curricular activities for this privilege.

So, if you assume that in school with 100 HGC kids, 50% of HGC kids apply and 60% of those get in, - it results in 30 / 100 HGC kids getting into Magnet MS. The kids who have not applied to Magnet MS will not feel bad for not getting in...

There are 26 kids in my kid's HGC class. As far as I know, 25 kids applied.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Kids who are in the top 3% or so cannot be accommodated at the home school. That is the point of the HGC - to provide instruction not available at the home school. There is just no way to provide the kind of instruction the HGC provides in a regular-classroom environment, and no home school has enough of these kids to create a separate classroom.

I completely disagree with you. It is possible to accommodate children who need it. And 3% is an arbitrary number.

+1.

Completely agree. My kids are in HGC, Magnet MS and Magnet HS. They are smart kids and they work hard, and they are not the top 3% in brainpower! How does getting into these programs automatically translate to more gray cells?

3% is really an arbitrary number. I would guess that at least 25% of MCPS kids can do as well in a HGC environment (cause curriculum is the same) as those who made it through.

If the HGC can take only 3% then they need to - 1) Add more space in HGC centers and 2) Open more HGC centers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Kids who are in the top 3% or so cannot be accommodated at the home school. That is the point of the HGC - to provide instruction not available at the home school. There is just no way to provide the kind of instruction the HGC provides in a regular-classroom environment, and no home school has enough of these kids to create a separate classroom.

I completely disagree with you. It is possible to accommodate children who need it. And 3% is an arbitrary number.

+1.

Completely agree. My kids are in HGC, Magnet MS and Magnet HS. They are smart kids and they work hard, and they are not the top 3% in brainpower! How does getting into these programs automatically translate to more gray cells?

3% is really an arbitrary number. I would guess that at least 25% of MCPS kids can do as well in a HGC environment (cause curriculum is the same) as those who made it through.

If the HGC can take only 3% then they need to - 1) Add more space in HGC centers and 2) Open more HGC centers.

I highly doubt this is true.

Even if the system did change and 25% of the population was designated as "gifted" and given "gifted" curriculum, it wouldn't really be highly gifted stuff which, by definition, targets a small percentage of the population. It would just be "accelerated," as it is in e.g. Fairfax County.

For the record, my two kids have been through the HGC, middle school magnets, and HS magnets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We didn't even tell our kid he was going to take a test for HGC. She didn't know what HGC was. All these things can be explained and discussed only after the acceptance letter comes. If you do this, your kid will probably not notice or care too much if other kids discuss they have been accepted.

How were you able to keep your kid in the dark? We've gone through the process twice now and the kids taking the test and a lot of kids not taking it knew what the test was for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We didn't even tell our kid he was going to take a test for HGC. She didn't know what HGC was. All these things can be explained and discussed only after the acceptance letter comes. If you do this, your kid will probably not notice or care too much if other kids discuss they have been accepted.

How were you able to keep your kid in the dark? We've gone through the process twice now and the kids taking the test and a lot of kids not taking it knew what the test was for.

It wasn't really difficult for us. The kids take so many tests at school. She just assumed it was one of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Kids who are in the top 3% or so cannot be accommodated at the home school. That is the point of the HGC - to provide instruction not available at the home school. There is just no way to provide the kind of instruction the HGC provides in a regular-classroom environment, and no home school has enough of these kids to create a separate classroom.

I completely disagree with you. It is possible to accommodate children who need it. And 3% is an arbitrary number.

+1.

Completely agree. My kids are in HGC, Magnet MS and Magnet HS. They are smart kids and they work hard, and they are not the top 3% in brainpower! How does getting into these programs automatically translate to more gray cells?

3% is really an arbitrary number. I would guess that at least 25% of MCPS kids can do as well in a HGC environment (cause curriculum is the same) as those who made it through.

If the HGC can take only 3% then they need to - 1) Add more space in HGC centers and 2) Open more HGC centers.

I highly doubt this is true.

Even if the system did change and 25% of the population was designated as "gifted" and given "gifted" curriculum, it wouldn't really be highly gifted stuff which, by definition, targets a small percentage of the population. It would just be "accelerated," as it is in e.g. Fairfax County.

For the record, my two kids have been through the HGC, middle school magnets, and HS magnets.

Please - in HGC, the curriculum is not "Highly Gifted". It can easily be tackled by a large number of MCPS students in ES. It gets harder in MS and harder still in HS for a non-magnet kid to catch up, but kids do that all the time.

My oldest went to a normal ES and MS and got into all magnet HS. However, a huge %age of kids in his MS, did not bother to apply to the magnet program. There were at least 15 kids above him who would have been a shoo-in. The ones who did get in were smart kids but not top-notch ...just like my DC.

The younger two kids have been in the HGC and magnet route since the beginning. Getting them in the program, after my first one became easier, because there is a process you follow to get in, and with each kid, you understand it a lot better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Kids who are in the top 3% or so cannot be accommodated at the home school. That is the point of the HGC - to provide instruction not available at the home school. There is just no way to provide the kind of instruction the HGC provides in a regular-classroom environment, and no home school has enough of these kids to create a separate classroom.

I completely disagree with you. It is possible to accommodate children who need it. And 3% is an arbitrary number.

+1.

Completely agree. My kids are in HGC, Magnet MS and Magnet HS. They are smart kids and they work hard, and they are not the top 3% in brainpower! How does getting into these programs automatically translate to more gray cells?

3% is really an arbitrary number. I would guess that at least 25% of MCPS kids can do as well in a HGC environment (cause curriculum is the same) as those who made it through.

If the HGC can take only 3% then they need to - 1) Add more space in HGC centers and 2) Open more HGC centers.

I highly doubt this is true.

Even if the system did change and 25% of the population was designated as "gifted" and given "gifted" curriculum, it wouldn't really be highly gifted stuff which, by definition, targets a small percentage of the population. It would just be "accelerated," as it is in e.g. Fairfax County.

For the record, my two kids have been through the HGC, middle school magnets, and HS magnets.

Please - in HGC, the curriculum is not "Highly Gifted". It can easily be tackled by a large number of MCPS students in ES. It gets harder in MS and harder still in HS for a non-magnet kid to catch up, but kids do that all the time.

My oldest went to a normal ES and MS and got into all magnet HS. However, a huge %age of kids in his MS, did not bother to apply to the magnet program. There were at least 15 kids above him who would have been a shoo-in. The ones who did get in were smart kids but not top-notch ...just like my DC.

The younger two kids have been in the HGC and magnet route since the beginning. Getting them in the program, after my first one became easier, because there is a process you follow to get in, and with each kid, you understand it a lot better.

Agreed that with second and third etc. children, you understand the process better and following the process is easier - but ultimately it is the test results that will dictate admission or not. If your kid doesn't score high on the test, he won't get in.

I don't think anyone is a shoo-in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Agreed that with second and third etc. children, you understand the process better and following the process is easier - but ultimately it is the test results that will dictate admission or not. If your kid doesn't score high on the test, he won't get in.

I don't think anyone is a shoo-in.

Bingo!

And so we see many kids not making it in because they are not good test takers, or they mess up on that one day. The point is that when these kids have the potential to handle a course load and curriculum (of HGC), why would you deny them this opportunity?

Why limit the seats? Take as many smart kids as you can in the elementary years (HGC)...if they can't handle it, they can go back to the regular MS.

No one is a shoo-in...yet, there were some stronger students than my DC, who did not apply for the magnet programs. My kid is smart but has to work hard as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Agreed that with second and third etc. children, you understand the process better and following the process is easier - but ultimately it is the test results that will dictate admission or not. If your kid doesn't score high on the test, he won't get in.

I don't think anyone is a shoo-in.

Bingo!

And so we see many kids not making it in because they are not good test takers, or they mess up on that one day. The point is that when these kids have the potential to handle a course load and curriculum (of HGC), why would you deny them this opportunity?

Why limit the seats? Take as many smart kids as you can in the elementary years (HGC)...if they can't handle it, they can go back to the regular MS.

No one is a shoo-in...yet, there were some stronger students than my DC, who did not apply for the magnet programs. My kid is smart but has to work hard as well.

Because something has to guide admissions - just as is the case for e.g. college admissions.

If kids choose not to apply, that is their perogative. But those who do apply can and should be evaluated on the basis of whether the regular classroom meets their needs, not whether they are "smart."

We can agree to disagree. FWIW

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids who are in the top 3% or so cannot be accommodated at the home school. That is the point of the HGC - to provide instruction not available at the home school. There is just no way to provide the kind of instruction the HGC provides in a regular-classroom environment, and no home school has enough of these kids to create a separate classroom.

Actually, I've been wondering about this. There were definitely kids in my kid's home elementary school class who would have been great at the elementary HGC, but who didn't get in. And then lots of kids in the elementary HGC didn't get into the middle-school HGC. And lots of kids who were not in the elementary HGC did get into the middle-school HGC -- or so I assume, from the numbers. So were they not in the top 3%, and then they were; or they were in the top 3%, and then they weren't? I think a likelier explanation is that the system of identifying "the top 3%" doesn't work very well. And I don't blame MCPS for this, either; I don't think it's possible to design a good system for this.

I think the selection process for the HGCs is a little less rigorous than the one for the middle school and high school magnets because the children are younger. I remember our HGC teacher telling me that not all the kids at the HGCs are a good fit for the program. They are all bright but not all of them can focus, get the work done, work collaboratively etc. The children in the MS and HS magnets are on the whole hard-working, pretty disciplined AND bright. So, it does not surprise me at all the some children who are admitted to HGCs don't get into the MS magnets. When dc applied, around half of the kids who applied from our HGC did not get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Kids who are in the top 3% or so cannot be accommodated at the home school. That is the point of the HGC - to provide instruction not available at the home school. There is just no way to provide the kind of instruction the HGC provides in a regular-classroom environment, and no home school has enough of these kids to create a separate classroom.

I completely disagree with you. It is possible to accommodate children who need it. And 3% is an arbitrary number.

+1.

Completely agree. My kids are in HGC, Magnet MS and Magnet HS. They are smart kids and they work hard, and they are not the top 3% in brainpower! How does getting into these programs automatically translate to more gray cells?

3% is really an arbitrary number. I would guess that at least 25% of MCPS kids can do as well in a HGC environment (cause curriculum is the same) as those who made it through.

If the HGC can take only 3% then they need to - 1) Add more space in HGC centers and 2) Open more HGC centers.

I highly doubt this is true.

Even if the system did change and 25% of the population was designated as "gifted" and given "gifted" curriculum, it wouldn't really be highly gifted stuff which, by definition, targets a small percentage of the population. It would just be "accelerated," as it is in e.g. Fairfax County.

For the record, my two kids have been through the HGC, middle school magnets, and HS magnets.

I agree. What you would get is a watered down curriculum. This is what happened in MCPS middle schools as a result of the middle school "reform". They got rid of the honors track and offered "advanced" classes to (in some schools) most of the children because everyone wanted their kids to be in the advanced classes. If you want a truly advanced and accelerated curriculum in our schools there has to be strict gatekeeping otherwise teachers end up teaching to the middle tier of students in their classes. It isn't as much of an issue in most of our high schools because truly advanced kids can take AP classes

[Anonymous]

To get back to the original question, I would like to add a new twist (not OP). I have twins who both applied, and strongly suspect one has a good chance of getting in and the other not. FWIW, they are the ones who asked to test (in their words "try out") and we agreed to fill out the parent application based on their requests. I've been kind of dreading a day in spring where there are two envelopes in the mailbox and it's obvious what happened before we even open them (the kids get the mail in our house). Any advice welcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids who are in the top 3% or so cannot be accommodated at the home school. That is the point of the HGC - to provide instruction not available at the home school. There is just no way to provide the kind of instruction the HGC provides in a regular-classroom environment, and no home school has enough of these kids to create a separate classroom.

Actually, I've been wondering about this. There were definitely kids in my kid's home elementary school class who would have been great at the elementary HGC, but who didn't get in. And then lots of kids in the elementary HGC didn't get into the middle-school HGC. And lots of kids who were not in the elementary HGC did get into the middle-school HGC -- or so I assume, from the numbers. So were they not in the top 3%, and then they were; or they were in the top 3%, and then they weren't? I think a likelier explanation is that the system of identifying "the top 3%" doesn't work very well. And I don't blame MCPS for this, either; I don't think it's possible to design a good system for this.

I think the selection process for the HGCs is a little less rigorous than the one for the middle school and high school magnets because the children are younger. I remember our HGC teacher telling me that not all the kids at the HGCs are a good fit for the program. They are all bright but not all of them can focus, get the work done, work collaboratively etc. The children in the MS and HS magnets are on the whole hard-working, pretty disciplined AND bright. So, it does not surprise me at all the some children who are admitted to HGCs don't get into the MS magnets. When dc applied, around half of the kids who applied from our HGC did not get in.

I agree with this, if you substitute "based on test scores" for "rigorous". The selection process for the elementary school HGC's is less based on test scores.

And yes, based on my experience, there are definitely bright kids at the elementary school HGCs who don't work hard and get the work done and don't work collaboratively. But a lot of them got into the middle school HGC. And some of the bright kids who do work hard and get the work done and do work collaboratively didn't.