adhd and HGCs

[Anonymous]

To answer one poster's question....there are no aides in the HGC classroom. My daughter is in an HGC and there is one homeroom teacher. However, the teacher is damn good and is used to working with bright children who might have issues (mine has anxiety issues).

Only a couple times was the work overwhelming for her...once when she did not like a book the class was to read and therefore saved it (and the corresponding writing) until the weekend before it was due. That's an issues all children will deal with at some point. Another was a longer-term project that she and her partners could not complete during class time.

The HGC teachers seem wonderful so far, which, to me, makes all the difference in the world. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Folks, how about you wait for the results for the entrance exam. Plenty of time to weigh your options after you find out whether your kid got in!

[Anonymous]

16:34 here. A couple of comments. The HGC teachers are amazing and seem to be experts at dealing with smart yet disorganized kids. In fact, it was the their presentation at the parent meeting that sealed the deal for us. They touched on all the issues we were worried about: terrible handwriting, problems with organization, anxiety. The guidance counselor even came out and touched on the organization stuff and the supports they offer. My DS does not like writing or shall I say he didn't. He was reading at the 10th grade level but struggled with getting his thoughts on paper. He is no longer afraid of writing. He writes tons now. Before I would have said that his biggest problem was writing - the organization, getting ideas down on paper. Now after, 2 quarters I can say that the biggest challenge is editing. Amazing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do students with adhd, add, executive functioning difficulties do at the HGCs? I know there is a 2E program but obviously for logistical and other reasons, such as the child shows signs but has not yet diagnosed, there could be reasons the 2E program is not an option. DC shows signs of adhd, inattentive type, and anxiety, and has trouble staying focused and getting organized (including organizing thoughts on paper) - but teachers consistently say they can't tell if it is a "problem" yet, which I've heard is very common with bright kids because they can compensate in the younger grades. I am starting to worry if admitted to the HGC will it become an anxiety inducer given DC's other struggles. Thanks for sharing any experiences - preferably first hand ones but I'd also appreciate your observations of such kids in the HGC program even if they are not your own.

My kid is a 2E in 4th grade at an HGC. It has been WONDERFUL for him. The program is run in a structured way and he is learning executive function skills at school (which we are reinforcing at home with Smart but Scattered approach). School is also significantly more interesting so it is holding his attention more. I was where you were last year -- do not fear. Send him!

We did do a meeting with the principal, guidance counselor and his teacher in the Fall to put them on alert of his strengths and his weaknesses. It set the stage for a very productive year so far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:16:34 here. A couple of comments. The HGC teachers are amazing and seem to be experts at dealing with smart yet disorganized kids. In fact, it was the their presentation at the parent meeting that sealed the deal for us. They touched on all the issues we were worried about: terrible handwriting, problems with organization, anxiety. The guidance counselor even came out and touched on the organization stuff and the supports they offer. My DS does not like writing or shall I say he didn't. He was reading at the 10th grade level but struggled with getting his thoughts on paper. He is no longer afraid of writing. He writes tons now. Before I would have said that his biggest problem was writing - the organization, getting ideas down on paper. Now after, 2 quarters I can say that the biggest challenge is editing. Amazing.

My kid has become a MUCH better writer in 2 quarters at the HGC. The teachers know how to reach my kid!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry for gate-crashing your post, OP, I'm interested as well.
In the perhaps improbable scenario where DS is accepted to an HGC, I'm afraid his diagnosed ADD and executive dysfunction will hinder him.

Are there classroom aides and do they willingly give accommodations to HGC students?

To OP, my son has an IEP at school and receives speech therapy, particular attention from the classroom aide, as well as a front seat in the class and typing help. A private evaluation for ADHD was the trigger for all these accommodations he receives. If you are worried about impact on academic progress, I would first ask your ped for references to evaluate your son. Then go from there with the school.

No classroom aides but the teachers are INCREDIBLE, some (not all) of the kids are a range of quirky, and kids become tolerant of each other's quirks. I don't think your child will be hindered any more at an HGC than the home school.

I also think, for kids with executive dysfunction, experience learning how to manage a large workload is invaluable. I won't lie -- the first big project verged on disaster for my kid. We forced him to start early but it took FOREVER, he misplaced his flashdrive, had to stay in for recess to finish, etc. It aged me significantly Flashforward several months -- my kid has become a competent (not quite strong) writer, who can plan ahead with big projects. It's nothing short of amazing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP might have better luck posting topic in the special needs forum.

Have you asked to see the teacher questionnaire about your child? It is after all an educational record of your child and you do have a right to see it under the FERPA Act. I saw a copy several years ago and it basically would exclude a child exhibiting ADHD symptoms from the HGC program.

That's not true at all! My kid was diagnosed with ADHD before we applied to the HGC. They were well aware they were accepting a very gifted/2E kid.

He's not the only one. There are several kids who also happen to exhibit more glaring ADHD symptoms in his class. HAVING ADHD WILL NOT PRECLUDE YOUR CHILD FROM BEING ACCEPTED AND EXCELLING AT AN HGC. DO NOT LET THAT LIMIT YOU FROM APPLYING OR GOING!

[Anonymous]

I'd like to know which HGC the pp.'s children are attending. My DC is at an HGC and it is good but not exactly the "amazing-teacher-going-the-extra-mile-great" experience that some are describing.

Which center are you at?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[, but he is a strong candidate based on his teacher's comments in 2nd and 3rd grades, his standardized test scores to date, and private WISC testing we had done last year in anticipation of applying to private schools (which we did not do).

that's not what gets someone into the HGC - admission is mainly based on result of the test they take when they apply.

Which you would assume someone who has done well on standardized tests and the WISC would also do very well on.

For a child with ADHD, the test environment could influence how well he/she did on the HGC testing. Without a 504/IEP, the child will take the HGC test with the rest of the students in the school that applied and no accommodations. At our school that was about 38 kids in one room. For the WISC, I'm sure your child had an ideal test environment and therefore could perform at his or her full potential.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[, but he is a strong candidate based on his teacher's comments in 2nd and 3rd grades, his standardized test scores to date, and private WISC testing we had done last year in anticipation of applying to private schools (which we did not do).

that's not what gets someone into the HGC - admission is mainly based on result of the test they take when they apply.

Which you would assume someone who has done well on standardized tests and the WISC would also do very well on.

For a child with ADHD, the test environment could influence how well he/she did on the HGC testing. Without a 504/IEP, the child will take the HGC test with the rest of the students in the school that applied and no accommodations. At our school that was about 38 kids in one room. For the WISC, I'm sure your child had an ideal test environment and therefore could perform at his or her full potential.

I'm the PP, not the OP and I agree to a certain extent. She indicated that her child had done well on other standardized tests; not sure if that was with accommodation or not, but if it's w/o, then there might not be any test taking issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP might have better luck posting topic in the special needs forum.

Have you asked to see the teacher questionnaire about your child? It is after all an educational record of your child and you do have a right to see it under the FERPA Act. I saw a copy several years ago and it basically would exclude a child exhibiting ADHD symptoms from the HGC program.

??

My child has a 504 plan for ADHD/anxiety. He is in an HGC and is doing great. He loves the challenge and unlike last year (3rd grade) has not complained once about being bored in school. We're still working on getting him to do all his homework on time, to bring things home, and to return things to school... but he's learning. He's proud of the fact that his desk is not nearly as messy as it was last year. They even have taught cursive this year and his handwriting is actually more legible than his printing, which is helpful.

We were told that a lot of HGC kids have "issues" and that teachers are used to dealing with quirks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP might have better luck posting topic in the special needs forum.

Have you asked to see the teacher questionnaire about your child? It is after all an educational record of your child and you do have a right to see it under the FERPA Act. I saw a copy several years ago and it basically would exclude a child exhibiting ADHD symptoms from the HGC program.

That's not true at all! My kid was diagnosed with ADHD before we applied to the HGC. They were well aware they were accepting a very gifted/2E kid.

He's not the only one. There are several kids who also happen to exhibit more glaring ADHD symptoms in his class. HAVING ADHD WILL NOT PRECLUDE YOUR CHILD FROM BEING ACCEPTED AND EXCELLING AT AN HGC. DO NOT LET THAT LIMIT YOU FROM APPLYING OR GOING!

Thanks you. I put it our there right on my kid's application - ADHD with its DSM code and all. DC is having an a great year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP might have better luck posting topic in the special needs forum.

Have you asked to see the teacher questionnaire about your child? It is after all an educational record of your child and you do have a right to see it under the FERPA Act. I saw a copy several years ago and it basically would exclude a child exhibiting ADHD symptoms from the HGC program.

??

My child has a 504 plan for ADHD/anxiety. He is in an HGC and is doing great. He loves the challenge and unlike last year (3rd grade) has not complained once about being bored in school. We're still working on getting him to do all his homework on time, to bring things home, and to return things to school... but he's learning. He's proud of the fact that his desk is not nearly as messy as it was last year. They even have taught cursive this year and his handwriting is actually more legible than his printing, which is helpful.

We were told that a lot of HGC kids have "issues" and that teachers are used to dealing with quirks.

This is 100% true, based on my experiences with my three kids in the HGC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Thanks for the responses, especially poster 16:34 who got to the heart of my question. I obviously do not know if my DC will be admitted, but he is a strong candidate based on his teacher's comments in 2nd and 3rd grades, his standardized test scores to date, and private WISC testing we had done last year in anticipation of applying to private schools (which we did not do). DC also shows many indicators that he may have adhd and he definitely struggles with anxiety, but he holds himself together pretty well in school via compensating techniques - that was my point about bright kids, not that all kids with adhd are bright, but that kids with adhd can often compensate for/mask their lack of attention/focus in younger grades, especially those with inattentive type adhd - his teachers say this to me each year, that they recognize there are flags but he is still one of the students who needs and so far handles the more challenging concepts. So I don't think he'd be excluded from HGC consideration due to the issues I am concerned about, but I know him much better than his teachers and the administrators in the HGC program and I don't want to set him up for failure or more anxiety. Anyway, thanks for all of the replies - once we even see if he gets in we'll have lots to think about!

Private WISC testing will be largely irrelevant to your DC's HGC application. It is the testing that is specifically done for the HGC that is the most important piece of the admissions decision.

Legally, a "disability" such as ADHD or an LD cannot be a reason to fail to admit a child to an HGC. Technically, it has been our experience that many aspects of the admissions packet may serve to "gate keep" ADHD or LD kids out of the program. On the other hand, it was clear to me that there were probably a couple of kids in my DC's HGC class that were ADHD or had dysgraphia; so some ADHD kids clearly get into the HGC programs. Based on what my DC and I saw, teachers in the HGC generally handled the ADHD better than teachers in the home school side of our school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HGCs are wonderful for students who enjoy writing, projects and are self motivated/can stay on task work independently. The HGCs don't do much math acceleration. I have one HGC child and 1 ADHD child. My ADHD child struggles with writing even though he understands the concepts, have great ideas and knows the answer. He just can not write it down in a timely manner. He also compensated early on but the ADHD was obvious from the level of hyper activity.

This completely knocks him out of the candidate pool for HGC even though his IQ is higher than his HGC older sibling. He would struggle with the writing output requirements and need an aide to keep him on task with independent work.

MCPS really fails bright kids with learning disabilities. MCPS is perfectly happy for the child to produce no work and stay at the same level year after year as long as they don't fall below the bottom bar. Its VERY hard to get accommodations enforced in MCPS. I hope that the burden of proof legislation passes because there is a horrible arrogance in MCPS that we don't have to provide the accommodations we agreed to in the IEP or 504 because they are NEVER required to document that they did this.

Unless this changes, your child will have a roller coaster in MCPS. Some years you'll get a great teacher who takes it on herself to provide accommodation and your kid will soar. The next year you'll get a teacher who ignores them and your child will end the year no farther than when he started.

+ 1000 - AMEN poster.

+1000 and another amen. My advice is to get out of MCPS and go private if you possibly can. My 2E son has spent a MISERABLE year in the MS GT/LD program. Not only are they not adhering to his accommodations in his IEP, they are passing him through with straight A's without the use of textbooks, projects, or homework. Those of you who know understand how frequently this happens. He has had one teacher this year who I can say truly taught him, and understood him. Heck, I think this teacher actually enjoyed teaching and did his job. The rest of the program is a massive fail. The GT/LD ES program is wonderful because of a single, fabulously talented teacher who single-highhandedly runs the show (with paras). Without her, there would be no GT/LD program. My advice is to not even bother with MoCo if you can help it. If you must, suit up for a years-long battle to get your child what he/she needs and is legally entitled to.