Punishment and potty training

[Anonymous]

My child is not special needs but did have trouble poop potty training and finally got the hang of it around 4.5. What worked for us was a lot of bribery - beyond candy and praise. We had him sit on the potty a few times a day and at first he got a treat (for us watching star wars - he's normally not allowed to --or playing the iphone) just for sitting. Then he got a treat for a successful poop. Sometimes I would let him watch tv/play phone on the potty just to get him to relax and sit there for a while. We had to figure out what he really wanted and then use it as a reward. That was key. After a few weeks we weaned off the treats. He actually asked today if he could watch star wars for a successful potty - I said no, now he just goes potty because he is a big kid . But it did work to get us there!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was taking the "he isn't on a schedule" as he doesn't poop at predictable times. Some people do, and some people don't. When my kid was that age, you could set your watch by his poops. Me, not so much, even as an adult I generally find that I need to poop at very inopportune times. 1/2 way through a movie, in the middle of my commute to work. I don't think you can "put" someone on a pooping schedule. You can put them on a schedule for sitting on the potty or "trying" which is probably a good idea here, but it may not lead to more success.

Putting them on a schedule for when to go sit on the potty is the tried and true method for difficult to potty trainers. The FIRST thing every developmental pediatricians, gastro, etc will recommend. If it does not work then other methods can be tried but not putting the kid on a schedule indicates a lazy parent more than anything else.

But the OP says she has tried or is trying having him sit on a schedule, but it doesn't work for this kid because he doesn't poop on a schedule. At least that's how I'm reading the first post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depending on the disability, if being toilet trained is an appropriate developmental expectation, I might look at consequences rather than punishment. Poop in your pants? Clean it up, clean yourself, change and put dirty clothes on to wash. Wet when we are at the playground? We go home and change, we don't bring a change of clothes to facilitate.

I'm amazed at how well my kid has done with this approach. Bladder of steel sometimes, but minimal accidents.

This seems like a reasonable approach. No punishment, no candy bribes.

Do your pediatrician and other doctors/therapists/etc think that being toilet trained is an appropriate developmental expectation? What do they say?

Having a kid clean himself while trying to potty train is punishment. No kid wants to shit themselves.

[Anonymous]

Once it becomes a power struggle, you lose. He has all the control. I think its become too charged and you should just back off, stop trying for a few months. Follow his lead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Once it becomes a power struggle, you lose. He has all the control. I think its become too charged and you should just back off, stop trying for a few months. Follow his lead.

+1 punishment is not the answer. Why aren't you having this conversation with his specialists?

[Anonymous]

I get the notion that you feel like he's punishing you, so you feel like punishment should be on the table for him. But he's not punishing you. I know that it feels like punishment. We all get that. But kids sometimes do things willfully or disobediently or even will laugh or do things five minutes after they said they didn't want to. That's not because they want to punish you. That's because they lack impulse control, executive control, and an understanding of cause and effect.

I also think that more of an explanation of "developmental delays" is needed here. I've been on this forum a long time and I've seen moms who will use this term simply to mean that their child is a few months behind in reaching a milestone(s) that other children the child's age has reached. But in reality, developmental delays means the child has social, physical, emotional, intellectual delays (a combination) that are significant. If your child has developmental delays and is 4.5 he may not really be ready to toilet train because his body, intellect and emotions are more like that of a 2 or 3 year old.

In any case, I would step back here and think about returning to this situation once things have cooled off. Three weeks is not going to make a difference.

[Anonymous]

I think people are being too harsh on the OP. She's not talking about beating the kid -- just giving him a time out. It may be that she and the professionals think he is developmentally capable, but just doesn't care. Some kids with sensory issues don't mind the smell or sensation (like the reverse of kids that can't stand bad smells), and its honestly really tough to incentivize those kids. If you have a kid like that, backing off may not work, because he may be totally happy to live that forever. Like another kid that doesn't really care to pick up his toys, because the messiness doesn't bother him. I agree that adjusting the incentives to things that he cares more about may help. I also second the suggestion to get him on a regular poop schedule -- the GI specialists insist that this can be done, although I haven't had much luck with it. I've heard of a social worker named Sally Neuberger (sp?) that specializes in potty training issues for SN kids. Maybe try her. If other posters have concrete suggestions for "specialists", they should provide names, rather than criticism. In my experience, the urology and GI specialists are not helpful in this situation -- once they've ruled out the physiological conditions, you're on your own.

[Anonymous]

Taking a different approach from others. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by developmental delays, and I agree with others that the first question you need to ask is is your DS actually developmentally ready. But I will share this about my son (who did not have delays). I had no doubt that he knew how to control his bladder. And I also knew there were times he would have an "accident" to get my attention when I was attending to his sibling. I I bought into what everyone said about not "punishing" for a potty accident, but we were beyond the point of positive reinforcement, and I knew he was doing it on purpose. So the next time he did it, I came down on him pretty hard, told him that accidents were not OK and told him I was taking the TV away next time he had an accident. That was the first time I'd ever threatened to take away TV, so it was a pretty big deal to him. This was over a year ago and we have not had another accident, and his toileting habits are perfectly normal. Again, different for a kid with delays, but if he is ready, and he is capable of comprehending negative consequences, I don't think it's a problem.

[Anonymous]

My child with delays does not respond to punishment. I would stick with rewards. Make a fun chart, every time he poops, put a big star on it and give him a treat and after 3 stars get him a bigger treat. Have you looked at some of the books on potty training kid with delays? I think Ron Leaf's book has s ection on that. It is for kids with autism but it's really for any kid and has a great explanation of using a behavioral approach for kids. A Work in Progress is the title.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, but the more I think about this, the more angry I am. At you.

You have a special needs child. This is a special needs board. I have an eight year old in diapers. With no expectation of that changing.

You really need to get a grip. If I find out you are punishing your SN child for failing to toilet train, I will come after you, with every legal tool in the book. SPS, the police, everything. You suck.

Amen sista! OP are you beating and slapoing the child too? Should cps be called?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Once it becomes a power struggle, you lose. He has all the control. I think its become too charged and you should just back off, stop trying for a few months. Follow his lead.

+1 punishment is not the answer. Why aren't you having this conversation with his specialists?

Yeh. DS was potty trained when he was good and ready and not a moment before then.

[Anonymous]

Putting them on a schedule for when to go sit on the potty is the tried and true method for difficult to potty trainers. The FIRST thing every developmental pediatricians, gastro, etc will recommend. If it does not work then other methods can be tried but not putting the kid on a schedule indicates a lazy parent more than anything else.

This is the absolute truth. I have a 7 yo who is still on a schedule (first diagnosed with dev delays and gross motor delay greater than 25% then apraxia of speech, MERLD, hypotonia and now ADHD). Twenty minutes after eating something, he goes on the toilet and sits for at least 15. He does it for a shorter amount of time at school but it's written into his IEP. That and Miralax are the only way we can keep him from soiling himself.

You might also reconsider constipation. Constipation doesn't just mean that it comes out hard or with difficulty. It can also mean they have a hard mass of poop in their intestines that interferes with normal elimination. My DS was doing pretty well on a schedule but was still having issues with soiling his underwear. Not a lot but still too much. After consulting with a gastroenterologist, we believe he had a ball of hard poop in his intestine and did a clean out regime. He was able to finally pass it. The mass caused him to lose sensation around the anus and it was difficult for him to recognize when he needed to go. He recognized it at the time it was happening and could push - or close his anus but not before some leaked into his underwear. We also think the low tone contributes to his leaky anus. The gastroenterologist told us it would likely take a long time for him to fully recover the ability to sense when he needed to poop - which is why we keep him on the Miralax regime and the schedule. It's a pain in the ass but that's what it takes.

[Anonymous]

My kid (SN) learned to poop by sitting on the potty regularly after meals. After breakfast, sit on potty and play with leapster for 20 minutes.
After lunch (or after school) sit on potty for 20 minutes and play with Leapster
After Dinner .. same thing.

I did this all fall when my son was 4. He had successes and we celebrated with prizes. But more than that he got to know the feeling of when poop comes out. This went on all Fall, so he had many successes, just by being in the right place at the right time.