How do you know if a kid is a sociopath or just bratty?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I infer from "these kids have parents that make excuses for them on a regular basis" that you are judging the behavior of other people's kids, not asking about your own kids.

And if you're talking about other people's kids, what difference does it make to you if the child is a sociopath or just bratty?

it impacts whether or not you allow contact with your child/pets

Why? I don't want my kids or pets to be around brats or sociopaths, if I can help it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the child is committing crimes, such as hurting animals, and molesting other younger, more vulnerable children, that's a sign the child is heading toward sociopathy. I know someone who did these things and more.

As a pp wrote, that's not a diagnosis that applies before the age of 18.

Agree with this. Many children simply don't have enough boundaries. There is a big difference between a "brat" and a future sociopath.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The definition of a sociopath, in the DSM (both iv and v) includes the individual in question being over 18.

True, which is why kids like the Columbine shooters slip through the cracks (FWIW, one was identified as a probable sociopath and one was just a garden-variety loser. So not even all mass murderers get the label).

You don't know why the OP is asking. She may be concerned for personal reasons. We have a neighbor kid who is definitely showing signs. As just one example, the only time I've ever seen him smile is when he's hurting someone, either physically or with words. Not surprisingly, as he gets older, he's becoming more isolated. I'm pretty careful in our interactions with him--I don't want him hanging around my kids (the feeling is mutual, fortunately), and I also don't want us to be a target if/when he finally blows. If I'm wrong and he grows up to be an outstanding citizen, I'll be happy to say I was wrong. In the meantime, I wish his parents would stop rolling their eyes at his behavior and realize the kid needs help, sooner than later.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanks for the replies. I am asking because it has to do with how much contact to have with another child, if any. The child in question definitely "takes pleasure" in being mean. Parents might not be too aware or just "roll their eyes" about it. In hindsight, I was probably being too extreme. I'm sure the kid will grow up to be a very successful type A person. However, I don't want my kid the target if I can help it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the replies. I am asking because it has to do with how much contact to have with another child, if any. The child in question definitely "takes pleasure" in being mean. Parents might not be too aware or just "roll their eyes" about it. In hindsight, I was probably being too extreme. I'm sure the kid will grow up to be a very successful type A person. However, I don't want my kid the target if I can help it.

The walk back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The definition of a sociopath, in the DSM (both iv and v) includes the individual in question being over 18.

While I may agree with you on this point, please remember that the DSM is not everyone's bible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the replies. I am asking because it has to do with how much contact to have with another child, if any. The child in question definitely "takes pleasure" in being mean. Parents might not be too aware or just "roll their eyes" about it. In hindsight, I was probably being too extreme. I'm sure the kid will grow up to be a very successful type A person. However, I don't want my kid the target if I can help it.

Well, if the child enjoys being mean, that's a sign your child shouldn't be around him/her. And "kid being mean" and "adults not addressing kid being mean" certainly isn't a good combination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The definition of a sociopath, in the DSM (both iv and v) includes the individual in question being over 18.

While I may agree with you on this point, please remember that the DSM is not everyone's bible.

The point is that you can't diagnose a young child with a personality disorder. Personality at this age is still fluid and changing. To come to the conclusion that a child has a permanent, unchanging condition such as sociopathy, is premature and unfair. Every child should be assumed to have the ability to grow and learn and improve themselves.

Now, that doesn't mean that you should necessarily invite this kid over. That's a personal decision, but labeling a child "sociopath" is unfair, and cruel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The definition of a sociopath, in the DSM (both iv and v) includes the individual in question being over 18.

True, which is why kids like the Columbine shooters slip through the cracks (FWIW, one was identified as a probable sociopath and one was just a garden-variety loser. So not even all mass murderers get the label).

You don't know why the OP is asking. She may be concerned for personal reasons. We have a neighbor kid who is definitely showing signs. As just one example, the only time I've ever seen him smile is when he's hurting someone, either physically or with words. Not surprisingly, as he gets older, he's becoming more isolated. I'm pretty careful in our interactions with him--I don't want him hanging around my kids (the feeling is mutual, fortunately), and I also don't want us to be a target if/when he finally blows. If I'm wrong and he grows up to be an outstanding citizen, I'll be happy to say I was wrong. In the meantime, I wish his parents would stop rolling their eyes at his behavior and realize the kid needs help, sooner than later.

Curious, have you every reached out to him? Had a conversation with him? Tried to see what he is interested in? Not to diminish your concern, but sometimes people have a hard time relating and a little compassion can work wonders. It seems that might be a more productive than making your dislike obvious or, as you put it, waiting for him to blow.

btw, I have worked with offenders in three states. a lot of creepy behavior, borderline personalities and substance abuse issues, but only one verifiable sociopath -- and she was incredibly charming. Callous behavior/pleasurec ausing pain are only a couple of the traits found in sociopaths. Particularly, when you're talking about kids, I'd be careful about the words you throw around. I once indiscreetly said a kid my son was playing basketball against looked like an ax-murderer. They kid ended up becoming one of my son's friends and is a real sweetheart. My son takes great pleasure in reminding me how wrong I was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the replies. I am asking because it has to do with how much contact to have with another child, if any. The child in question definitely "takes pleasure" in being mean. Parents might not be too aware or just "roll their eyes" about it. In hindsight, I was probably being too extreme. I'm sure the kid will grow up to be a very successful type A person. However, I don't want my kid the target if I can help it.

I know of one like that inour neighborhood. Don't bother to "reach out". The parents don't appreciate it and they take it for granted, meanwhile your kid is the guinea pig in all this while theh other kids NEVER CHANGES. I used to believe in reaching out. Not anymore. Eventually we had to stop exposure to the kid. Just ignore/avoid from the start.

[Anonymous]

Oh I think these children do show themselves, we just want to believe that our kids can be better than they are

Life as a Nonviolent Psychopath
Neuroscientist James Fallon discovered through his work that he has the brain of a psychopath, and subsequently learned a lot about the role of genes in personality and how his brain affects his life.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/01/life-as-a-nonviolent-psychopath/282271/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The definition of a sociopath, in the DSM (both iv and v) includes the individual in question being over 18.

True, which is why kids like the Columbine shooters slip through the cracks (FWIW, one was identified as a probable sociopath and one was just a garden-variety loser. So not even all mass murderers get the label).

You don't know why the OP is asking. She may be concerned for personal reasons. We have a neighbor kid who is definitely showing signs. As just one example, the only time I've ever seen him smile is when he's hurting someone, either physically or with words. Not surprisingly, as he gets older, he's becoming more isolated. I'm pretty careful in our interactions with him--I don't want him hanging around my kids (the feeling is mutual, fortunately), and I also don't want us to be a target if/when he finally blows. If I'm wrong and he grows up to be an outstanding citizen, I'll be happy to say I was wrong. In the meantime, I wish his parents would stop rolling their eyes at his behavior and realize the kid needs help, sooner than later.

Curious, have you every reached out to him? Had a conversation with him? Tried to see what he is interested in? Not to diminish your concern, but sometimes people have a hard time relating and a little compassion can work wonders. It seems that might be a more productive than making your dislike obvious or, as you put it, waiting for him to blow.

btw, I have worked with offenders in three states. a lot of creepy behavior, borderline personalities and substance abuse issues, but only one verifiable sociopath -- and she was incredibly charming. Callous behavior/pleasurec ausing pain are only a couple of the traits found in sociopaths. Particularly, when you're talking about kids, I'd be careful about the words you throw around. I once indiscreetly said a kid my son was playing basketball against looked like an ax-murderer. They kid ended up becoming one of my son's friends and is a real sweetheart. My son takes great pleasure in reminding me how wrong I was.

PP here. I've dealt with this child for 13 years, in fact--I used to babysit him when he was younger. I have some disturbing stories from that era, but I'm not relating them because they'd potentially identify him. I quit after his parents, despite lip service, could not ensure that I would feel safe while in the house with him.

I tried many, many times to include him, and I've always defended him to the other neighbors (mostly to get them to shut up, as he's obviously a source of gossip). He nearly always refused to engage. When he did engage, my own kids would be in tears soon afterwards. I lose no sleep over not putting enough effort into this kid, though I've felt guilty that my kids were sometimes hurt because I was trying to be inclusive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh I think these children do show themselves, we just want to believe that our kids can be better than they are

Life as a Nonviolent Psychopath
Neuroscientist James Fallon discovered through his work that he has the brain of a psychopath, and subsequently learned a lot about the role of genes in personality and how his brain affects his life.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/01/life-as-a-nonviolent-psychopath/282271/

What he discovered was that it takes the gene PLUS a traumatic event in early childhood. In his case, the gene did not affect his life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The definition of a sociopath, in the DSM (both iv and v) includes the individual in question being over 18.

True, which is why kids like the Columbine shooters slip through the cracks (FWIW, one was identified as a probable sociopath and one was just a garden-variety loser. So not even all mass murderers get the label).

You don't know why the OP is asking. She may be concerned for personal reasons. We have a neighbor kid who is definitely showing signs. As just one example, the only time I've ever seen him smile is when he's hurting someone, either physically or with words. Not surprisingly, as he gets older, he's becoming more isolated. I'm pretty careful in our interactions with him--I don't want him hanging around my kids (the feeling is mutual, fortunately), and I also don't want us to be a target if/when he finally blows. If I'm wrong and he grows up to be an outstanding citizen, I'll be happy to say I was wrong. In the meantime, I wish his parents would stop rolling their eyes at his behavior and realize the kid needs help, sooner than later.

Curious, have you every reached out to him? Had a conversation with him? Tried to see what he is interested in? Not to diminish your concern, but sometimes people have a hard time relating and a little compassion can work wonders. It seems that might be a more productive than making your dislike obvious or, as you put it, waiting for him to blow.

btw, I have worked with offenders in three states. a lot of creepy behavior, borderline personalities and substance abuse issues, but only one verifiable sociopath -- and she was incredibly charming. Callous behavior/pleasurec ausing pain are only a couple of the traits found in sociopaths. Particularly, when you're talking about kids, I'd be careful about the words you throw around. I once indiscreetly said a kid my son was playing basketball against looked like an ax-murderer. They kid ended up becoming one of my son's friends and is a real sweetheart. My son takes great pleasure in reminding me how wrong I was.

PP here. I've dealt with this child for 13 years, in fact--I used to babysit him when he was younger. I have some disturbing stories from that era, but I'm not relating them because they'd potentially identify him. I quit after his parents, despite lip service, could not ensure that I would feel safe while in the house with him.

I tried many, many times to include him, and I've always defended him to the other neighbors (mostly to get them to shut up, as he's obviously a source of gossip). He nearly always refused to engage. When he did engage, my own kids would be in tears soon afterwards. I lose no sleep over not putting enough effort into this kid, though I've felt guilty that my kids were sometimes hurt because I was trying to be inclusive.

Then I don't understand the point of your post -- you said it was to decide whether or not to let him be around your kids. Clearly from what you just posted, you shouldn't, whether you label him as a sociopath or not. You didn't feel safe in the house with him -- and you wonder if you should have him in your life????

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh I think these children do show themselves, we just want to believe that our kids can be better than they are

Life as a Nonviolent Psychopath
Neuroscientist James Fallon discovered through his work that he has the brain of a psychopath, and subsequently learned a lot about the role of genes in personality and how his brain affects his life.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/01/life-as-a-nonviolent-psychopath/282271/

What he discovered was that it takes the gene PLUS a traumatic event in early childhood. In his case, the gene did not affect his life.

You are right it takes both, but things like a parents divorce could make it much worse. But this guy was not great to be around even with the good childhood.