Landon (Upper School) academics, how do they compare with GP, STA, SFS, GDS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:GDS is a very liberal school and plenty of quirky kids there. Athletics are very de-emphasized. It does, however, have an outstanding academic reputation as supported by its college matriculation stats. Much stronger environment than what you get at Landon or Prep. Not sure how being "liberal" equates to having a lesser academic environment.

Because you know how liberalism goes: Everything is tolerated and all is accepted and celebrated. Even lesser academic standards.

Hmm. So liberals (whatever that means) tolerate lesser academic standards. Sure, that makes sense.

Sure. It's part of "inclusion," don't cha know...

[Anonymous]

There are some misconceptions out there on this thread. While agreeing that no one answer can be definitive (because people don't know five schools equally well), I will chime in.

First, to the poster who identified facilities, environment (which was defined mainly as single-sex or co-ed or religious or secular), and faculty, I will add two more (1) strength of the student cohort; and (2) content of the curriculum.

On the first point, by way of analogy, my intellectual experience in college was significantly enhanced by being surrounded by some truly brilliant people (I'd say I hung in there as "bright"). The only real metric available for strength of the student cohort is the percentage of National Merit Semifinalists (NMSFs)/Commended students (and perhaps the overall number of those students) -- admittedly, of course, this is an imperfect measurement not every bright, creative mind excels on these kids of standardized tests. The DC independent schools have a structural advantage in terms of drawing the very bright students in that the DC public schools are not as well regarded as schools in MoCo or Fairfax County, and the NMSF percentages for Sidwell, GDS, and St. Albans are all generally the highest in the area for independent schools. (St. Anselm's, although not on the OP's original list, also does very well in this regard.) On the issue of the overall numbers of NMSFs, because Sidwell and GDS are about 50% bigger in the Upper School than St. Albans, the same percentage of NMSFs would translate into more students (possibly relevant in terms of who is making up top level classes). Landon and Prep tend to have a lower percentage of NMSFs (some years they do not have any) but are comparable to each other.

In terms of the content of the curriculum, all of these schools are relatively small so there are some limits on what they can offer (e.g. the breadth of foreign language offerings). But there are some differences -- for example, because St. Albans has a religion requirement (three semester-long courses in Upper School) that effectively cuts into the range of history/social science offerings -- and many schools have a "jewel in the crown" course or department that is particularly strong. Landon, for example, has a very well-regarded humanities class in the Upper School. It's worth asking around what interesting course offerings/curricular wrinkles there are and seeing if it matches up with your child's interests.

A few additional points.

First, I'm not sure what is up with the people taking shots at GDS. A generation ago it was not seen as a peer school with St. Albans or Sidwell or NCS but it is now among the school communities in terms of intellectual rigor (even if culturally it is very different from a school like St. Albans). The number/percentage of NMSFs at GDS is also very good (beat everybody a few years ago). Not everyone likes the vibe there (first names for teachers, informality of dress) but it is very well-regarded.

Second, geography tends to be a very important factor. The number one competitor for St. Albans for Upper School students is Sidwell, and they also have plenty of applicants who are also applying to GDS and Maret (and sometimes pick those schools over St. Albans, and vice versa). Although there are some families who say "we want an all-boys environment so we will focus only on Landon, Prep, and St. Albans," it is fewer than you might think.

Finally, to get back to the original point. Landon is a good school. Because of the structural issue -- competition from very strong Montgomery County schools -- it does not appear to draw the same number of top students (as measured, imperfectly, by testing) as the top independent schools in DC. The faculty is strong, but you might see more PhD's and more "academic" types at a school like Sidwell or GDS which does not go in for the "teacher-coach" model (which has many advantages as well). There is a perception, in terms of school culture, that athletics, and most of all lacrosse, are extremely important at Prep and Landon -- that may also influence away some more academically focused students. But certainly not every boy at Prep and Landon is sporty.

[Anonymous]

I can't speak to the others, but Sidwell really has an excellent curriculum, high standards and thought-provoking assignments. The administration and college counseling is weak, but the education itself is top-notch.

[Anonymous]

Just compare the curriculum descriptions of the upper school courses that are expected of the students at their grade level as well as the descriptions of the AP and Honor's courses that are offered at the respective schools and you will have your answer. This information is available on their websites.

[Anonymous]

11:45 GREAT POST!

[Anonymous]

According to this link http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/331543.page

Sidwell had 14 NMSF, STA had 10 and GDS had 6 - if I understand 11:45 the thinking here is that having a small % of NSMF (albeit a larger small % than other schools) makes a recognizable difference in the academic experience? I don't think the data support that. Moreover, the overall % is irrelevant for an individual student - if the underlying theory is correct the important thing is to be in class with the NMSF students. But if a student was in an honors level class at top public school with many more total NMSF students, they could be surrounded by NMSF students.

The matriculation data is more revealing. Each of the schools discussed here send students to HYPSM type schools each year, others to top 25 schools and others to less selective schools. The biggest difference I've observed is how socially adept the graduates are. To me, graduates of all boys schools are far more polished than graduates of coed schools - but reasonable minds can differ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:GDS is a very liberal school and plenty of quirky kids there. Athletics are very de-emphasized. It does, however, have an outstanding academic reputation as supported by its college matriculation stats. Much stronger environment than what you get at Landon or Prep. Not sure how being "liberal" equates to having a lesser academic environment.

GDS' matriculation stats are actually surprisingly mediocre - which may be one reason they don't publish them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:11:45 GREAT POST!

+1 very good description and ideas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:According to this link http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/331543.page

Sidwell had 14 NMSF, STA had 10 and GDS had 6 - if I understand 11:45 the thinking here is that having a small % of NSMF (albeit a larger small % than other schools) makes a recognizable difference in the academic experience? I don't think the data support that. Moreover, the overall % is irrelevant for an individual student - if the underlying theory is correct the important thing is to be in class with the NMSF students. But if a student was in an honors level class at top public school with many more total NMSF students, they could be surrounded by NMSF students.

The matriculation data is more revealing. Each of the schools discussed here send students to HYPSM type schools each year, others to top 25 schools and others to less selective schools. The biggest difference I've observed is how socially adept the graduates are. To me, graduates of all boys schools are far more polished than graduates of coed schools - but reasonable minds can differ.

We might disagree, but I think it is a mix of concepts -- you want small class sizes (independent schools) but also, if you have a very bright student, for there to be enough very bright students to surround/inspire/challenge your child and the faculty. (And believe me, that's not always the goal -- sometimes quality teaching and a non-high-powered environment is the very best to get the best performance out of a bright but not superpowered student). So if we were to compare public to private -- which the OP wasn't doing -- sure, TJ would kill everyone in the "student cohort" measurement. But even the best publics in this area have big class sizes -- my nephew in AP US History in MoCo has 30+ kids in his class so they rarely write a full essay, just pieces of essays (because otherwise the grading would presumably overwhelm the teacher, who must have 120+ total students).

So, if someone is trying to compare these small area privates academically, I do think the issue of percentage and overall number of NMSFs is relevant (only in the sense of trying to get a proxy for very bright students), because those are the kids who will be in the most advanced sections. If your kid wouldn't be in the most advanced sections -- and our family tends to math-avoiders, for example -- then it's not a big deal. But if you want to get a sense of how fast-paced challenging the top level courses are, it will matter who is in those classes.

[Anonymous]

I can’t understand how someone would even begin to try to compare these five schools. The difference between Prep and Landon and one hand and GDS and Sidwell on the other hand is as different as night and day. Start with the difference between coed and all boys – a very big difference. Then there is the emphasis on balance academics-sports-arts you find at Prep and Landon (and to a lesser extent STA), which can consume 3 hours or more a day in contrast to the academics first focus of GDS and Sidwell. Then there is the difference in campus environment and culture – jock vs nerd (broadly put).
STA has a bit of both groups, but otherwise the differences overwhelm any similarity.

[Anonymous]

If you prefer single gender, then Sidwell and GDS are out. If you want secular Prep and STA are out. That may well be the rationale for many who chose Landon.

Read the question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are some misconceptions out there on this thread. While agreeing that no one answer can be definitive (because people don't know five schools equally well), I will chime in.

First, to the poster who identified facilities, environment (which was defined mainly as single-sex or co-ed or religious or secular), and faculty, I will add two more (1) strength of the student cohort; and (2) content of the curriculum.

On the first point, by way of analogy, my intellectual experience in college was significantly enhanced by being surrounded by some truly brilliant people (I'd say I hung in there as "bright"). The only real metric available for strength of the student cohort is the percentage of National Merit Semifinalists (NMSFs)/Commended students (and perhaps the overall number of those students) -- admittedly, of course, this is an imperfect measurement not every bright, creative mind excels on these kids of standardized tests. The DC independent schools have a structural advantage in terms of drawing the very bright students in that the DC public schools are not as well regarded as schools in MoCo or Fairfax County, and the NMSF percentages for Sidwell, GDS, and St. Albans are all generally the highest in the area for independent schools. (St. Anselm's, although not on the OP's original list, also does very well in this regard.) On the issue of the overall numbers of NMSFs, because Sidwell and GDS are about 50% bigger in the Upper School than St. Albans, the same percentage of NMSFs would translate into more students (possibly relevant in terms of who is making up top level classes). Landon and Prep tend to have a lower percentage of NMSFs (some years they do not have any) but are comparable to each other.

In terms of the content of the curriculum, all of these schools are relatively small so there are some limits on what they can offer (e.g. the breadth of foreign language offerings). But there are some differences -- for example, because St. Albans has a religion requirement (three semester-long courses in Upper School) that effectively cuts into the range of history/social science offerings -- and many schools have a "jewel in the crown" course or department that is particularly strong. Landon, for example, has a very well-regarded humanities class in the Upper School. It's worth asking around what interesting course offerings/curricular wrinkles there are and seeing if it matches up with your child's interests.

A few additional points.

First, I'm not sure what is up with the people taking shots at GDS. A generation ago it was not seen as a peer school with St. Albans or Sidwell or NCS but it is now among the school communities in terms of intellectual rigor (even if culturally it is very different from a school like St. Albans). The number/percentage of NMSFs at GDS is also very good (beat everybody a few years ago). Not everyone likes the vibe there (first names for teachers, informality of dress) but it is very well-regarded.

Second, geography tends to be a very important factor. The number one competitor for St. Albans for Upper School students is Sidwell, and they also have plenty of applicants who are also applying to GDS and Maret (and sometimes pick those schools over St. Albans, and vice versa). Although there are some families who say "we want an all-boys environment so we will focus only on Landon, Prep, and St. Albans," it is fewer than you might think.

Finally, to get back to the original point. Landon is a good school. Because of the structural issue -- competition from very strong Montgomery County schools -- it does not appear to draw the same number of top students (as measured, imperfectly, by testing) as the top independent schools in DC. The faculty is strong, but you might see more PhD's and more "academic" types at a school like Sidwell or GDS which does not go in for the "teacher-coach" model (which has many advantages as well). There is a perception, in terms of school culture, that athletics, and most of all lacrosse, are extremely important at Prep and Landon -- that may also influence away some more academically focused students. But certainly not every boy at Prep and Landon is sporty.

Great insights. Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can’t understand how someone would even begin to try to compare these five schools. The difference between Prep and Landon and one hand and GDS and Sidwell on the other hand is as different as night and day. Start with the difference between coed and all boys – a very big difference. Then there is the emphasis on balance academics-sports-arts you find at Prep and Landon (and to a lesser extent STA), which can consume 3 hours or more a day in contrast to the academics first focus of GDS and Sidwell. Then there is the difference in campus environment and culture – jock vs nerd (broadly put).
STA has a bit of both groups, but otherwise the differences overwhelm any similarity.

Different strokes, different folks

[Anonymous]

The stereotype is that nerds are smart, but they also have a lot more time to devote to academics, which is just what some parents want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can’t understand how someone would even begin to try to compare these five schools. The difference between Prep and Landon and one hand and GDS and Sidwell on the other hand is as different as night and day. Start with the difference between coed and all boys – a very big difference. Then there is the emphasis on balance academics-sports-arts you find at Prep and Landon (and to a lesser extent STA), which can consume 3 hours or more a day in contrast to the academics first focus of GDS and Sidwell. Then there is the difference in campus environment and culture – jock vs nerd (broadly put).
STA has a bit of both groups, but otherwise the differences overwhelm any similarity.

Nerd alert.