Is this a phase? Toddler leaves me in tears...

[Anonymous]

I agree with the poster that said just stick with boundaries and stay consistent. It will get easier as they have the guidance instilled in them. They will start to realize that it's no fun to face consequences all the time and their just making themselves miserable. Call them on their bluff and it will be easier later.

[Anonymous]

Op Here: thanks for all the replies... One question that is related, how do you decide what to ignore in the hopes the behavior extinguishes (on the notion of ignoring won't reinforce it and therefore the child will stop a behavior) and what to correct? Obviously, hitting someone you won't ignore, but what about stuff he's doing to grab attention - do I ignore it so it eventually stops? Or make a point to address it - but then is it giving it too much attention and he will continue so it gets a rise out of me?

I hope that makes sense...

Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Obviously, as you said, any behavior that hurts another person or is related to your son's safety can't be ignored. Other than that, I would ignore any other behavior he is engaging in to get your attention (I know you said he gives you the sign such as looking at you in a challenging way). If he sees that it works, he'll continue. Sometimes kids don't care what kind of attention they get -- good or bad -- as long as they are getting some attention. One thing that has worked well for me is to ignore the obvious attention getting behavior and, if you can, sit down and start playing with a toy that he loves or pull out one of his books and sit and start to thumb through it. The idea is to not call attention to the inappropriate way he is trying to get to you, but draw him into an appropriate attention sharing experience (playing together, reading, etc.). Then it is not such a power struggle with you telling him not to do something and then him directly challenging that request. If he is testing, but not quite participating in the behavior that you have asked him not to, then ignore and try the strategy of beginning to play with a favorite toy, etc. Most times this seems to work well and distract the younger ones. Sorry this is so long; I hope you have luck with some of these strategies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op Here: thanks for all the replies... One question that is related, how do you decide what to ignore in the hopes the behavior extinguishes (on the notion of ignoring won't reinforce it and therefore the child will stop a behavior) and what to correct? Obviously, hitting someone you won't ignore, but what about stuff he's doing to grab attention - do I ignore it so it eventually stops? Or make a point to address it - but then is it giving it too much attention and he will continue so it gets a rise out of me?

I hope that makes sense...

Thanks.

Ignoring whining and temper tantrums has worked for us. You won't believe how fast they stop if you don't give them any credence.

[Anonymous]

sounds like it is time to trade him in...just kidding. I think you are overwhelmed with a newborn and a terrible two child. I would stop the choices. stick with the time outs. also pick your battles with him. This is a trying time for him and he is told no for every thing, he isn't really learning. If he pokes something sharp with his finger after being told not to touch it, I bet he doesn't touch it again. Lessons learned the hard way are sometimes the best way. I feel for you. Been there, so glad to be over it. good luck, it will pass.

[Anonymous]

I don't understand giving a kid so many "choices"

Caveat: I only have a baby, so I haven't faced the "choices" issue.

I witnessed my nephew (age 3) get choices: milk in sippy cup or regular cup, same with juice and the list goes on. Admittedly, I got a little annoyed with all of the choices he was being given, because each one seemed to become an opportunity for him to say, "Nnnnoooo" or assert power. I understand "choose to behave or you don't get to ***," but it seems like there should be a limit on the number of choices kids really need. when are there too many choices?

Do I need a reality check? and I haven't read any books etc on discipline (baby is still a baby)

I don't need to say, be honest in responding, because I know you all will

[Anonymous]

OP - my DS was exactly the same like yours. Same age difference to his little sis too. I felt like I yelled at him, he was driving me totally insane and I could not take it. (I work though so he was at school where they praised him for always being soo good, and then terror at home). I did not see the light at the end of the tunnel - and then, without me even noticing how and when, it changed, and he became a good boy. He is really well behaved, and a great help with his sis who is now the 2yo terror (much worse than he used to be).

1/ remember this will end, without you doing something or not, it is a phase, you just need to stick to your guns and be consisten
2/ do pick your battles - when you feel like you are about to yell, take a deep breath, maybe walk to the next room, and back. sometimes i get wound up over things that are small
3/ have your husband have you sleep in on the weekends - your being well rested has to do a lot with your patience to deal with your toddler
4/ my husband is great in that when he sees I am losing it, he steps in, in a calm manner. you are home with the kids but in the evenings, if possible, ask your DH to do that. it helps (sometimes i do not agree with how he handles the situation but he is helping me so i am keeping my mouth shut)

can you sign him up for some classes during the day? maybe you rlocal community center? being with other kids and following leads of other adults may help him

good luck

[Anonymous]

To respond to several PP's comments about choices -- my understanding is that giving preschoolers choices helps them feel more in control and assert some independence. You wouldn't say, "what do you want to wear today" but give them a choice between shirt A and shirt B.

My child responds well to this, and I've read it is very helpful in giving them some control over their lives, which is what a lot of the bad behavior is about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand giving a kid so many "choices"

Caveat: I only have a baby, so I haven't faced the "choices" issue.

I witnessed my nephew (age 3) get choices: milk in sippy cup or regular cup, same with juice and the list goes on. Admittedly, I got a little annoyed with all of the choices he was being given, because each one seemed to become an opportunity for him to say, "Nnnnoooo" or assert power. I understand "choose to behave or you don't get to ***," but it seems like there should be a limit on the number of choices kids really need. when are there too many choices?

Do I need a reality check? and I haven't read any books etc on discipline (baby is still a baby)

I don't need to say, be honest in responding, because I know you all will

Yes. Lol.

This is a widely-regarded technique that is pretty effective for many reasons. A few examples: instead of a morning battle over getting dressed and the child not wanting to, you proactively instead say "do you want to wear your blue dress or your yellow dress?" Helps move things along while still allowing child to participate and feel like she has some control. Also giving choices can help a baby/toddler learn to communicate (what is the red cup versus the blue cup, saying the words, being engaged).

The key is offering limited and succinct choices appropriate to age (like your nephew's Mom is doing well it sounds like). So in fact, saying "choose to behave" would not be an effective way to go about things as it's too vague and there are not concrete ideas to hold onto. And while the child of course shouldn't be the one in control, many behavioral problems actually stem from a kid feeling powerless. Giving choices is one way to provide a good middle ground.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand giving a kid so many "choices"

Caveat: I only have a baby, so I haven't faced the "choices" issue.

I witnessed my nephew (age 3) get choices: milk in sippy cup or regular cup, same with juice and the list goes on. Admittedly, I got a little annoyed with all of the choices he was being given, because each one seemed to become an opportunity for him to say, "Nnnnoooo" or assert power. I understand "choose to behave or you don't get to ***," but it seems like there should be a limit on the number of choices kids really need. when are there too many choices?

Do I need a reality check? and I haven't read any books etc on discipline (baby is still a baby)

I don't need to say, be honest in responding, because I know you all will

Yep, a reality check would help. Either/or choices do not cede power to kids. They cede a slight illusion of power, but actually establish limits. The either/or isn't a way of giving a child the opportunity not to do what you want; it gets the result you want without your clinging to things that don't matter. For instance, if you want the toddler to put on a shirt now, but it doesn't really matter if it's the blue one or the red one, you give him a color choice. "Do you want the blue shirt or the red shirt" replaces "which shirt do you want," which can be a bewildering choice for a child, and also an opportunity to say "I don't want a shirt." The choice also allows them to save face if they're already resisting any result but are ready to give in.

Another form of the choice is "do you want to climb into your car seat or do you want me to pick you up?" That's not an offer of power, but a statement that he's getting in the car.

Too many choices, i.e., what would you like for dinner, expand boundaries too far and can confuse the child. A simple either/or is recommended by many parenting counselors and books, and it has always, always worked for me. Yes, it gets dull listening to parents talk this way, and it gets dull talking this way, but it's effective and kids understand it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand giving a kid so many "choices"

Caveat: I only have a baby, so I haven't faced the "choices" issue.

I witnessed my nephew (age 3) get choices: milk in sippy cup or regular cup, same with juice and the list goes on. Admittedly, I got a little annoyed with all of the choices he was being given, because each one seemed to become an opportunity for him to say, "Nnnnoooo" or assert power. I understand "choose to behave or you don't get to ***," but it seems like there should be a limit on the number of choices kids really need. when are there too many choices?

Do I need a reality check? and I haven't read any books etc on discipline (baby is still a baby)

I don't need to say, be honest in responding, because I know you all will

I agree. Sometimes they feel safer when we make choices for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - my DS was exactly the same like yours. Same age difference to his little sis too. I felt like I yelled at him, he was driving me totally insane and I could not take it. (I work though so he was at school where they praised him for always being soo good, and then terror at home). I did not see the light at the end of the tunnel - and then, without me even noticing how and when, it changed, and he became a good boy. He is really well behaved, and a great help with his sis who is now the 2yo terror (much worse than he used to be).

1/ remember this will end, without you doing something or not, it is a phase, you just need to stick to your guns and be consisten
2/ do pick your battles - when you feel like you are about to yell, take a deep breath, maybe walk to the next room, and back. sometimes i get wound up over things that are small
3/ have your husband have you sleep in on the weekends - your being well rested has to do a lot with your patience to deal with your toddler
4/ my husband is great in that when he sees I am losing it, he steps in, in a calm manner. you are home with the kids but in the evenings, if possible, ask your DH to do that. it helps (sometimes i do not agree with how he handles the situation but he is helping me so i am keeping my mouth shut)

can you sign him up for some classes during the day? maybe you rlocal community center? being with other kids and following leads of other adults may help him

good luck

I think it can be a scary precedent to assume things just naturally change out of a phase because of age. They need consistent boundaries early and at 3 or 4 they won't be as intolerable. I agree with some PP about consistency. Be consistent and things will get better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op Here: thanks for all the replies... One question that is related, how do you decide what to ignore in the hopes the behavior extinguishes (on the notion of ignoring won't reinforce it and therefore the child will stop a behavior) and what to correct? Obviously, hitting someone you won't ignore, but what about stuff he's doing to grab attention - do I ignore it so it eventually stops? Or make a point to address it - but then is it giving it too much attention and he will continue so it gets a rise out of me?

I hope that makes sense...

Thanks.

Another point to consider is something I was reading in a book called something like - Taming Your Spirited Child without Breaking His Spirit. That book said to try to step back and figure out your child's goal with his annoying behavior. For instance, I was sitting on the bed nursing my 9 month old baby, and my 2.5 year old toddler was wandering around the room throwing things on the floor. This was starting to get me mad, but my book says that if my toddler makes me mad, the toddler wins because she has just shown how much power she has by controlling my emotions. So I figured out that my toddler's goal was really to get my attention. I just up and said, "I think you're trying to get my attention, but why don't you just come over here and snuggle with us?" To my relief, it actually worked. She hopped up on the bed, and snuggled with me and the baby. Wow, that was a great moment.

Another book I read also mentioned that sometimes toddlers are trying to get our attention, and some people say to ignore them because that is what they want. This book is called Playful Parenting by Larry Cohen. The author said that is a pretty silly thing to do because they are trying to tell you that they need you, so not responding isn't always appropriate. If their "attention" cup is half full, then we may need to try to figure out a way to fill it up by giving them appropriate attention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand giving a kid so many "choices"

Caveat: I only have a baby, so I haven't faced the "choices" issue.

I witnessed my nephew (age 3) get choices: milk in sippy cup or regular cup, same with juice and the list goes on. Admittedly, I got a little annoyed with all of the choices he was being given, because each one seemed to become an opportunity for him to say, "Nnnnoooo" or assert power. I understand "choose to behave or you don't get to ***," but it seems like there should be a limit on the number of choices kids really need. when are there too many choices?

Do I need a reality check? and I haven't read any books etc on discipline (baby is still a baby)

I don't need to say, be honest in responding, because I know you all will

I agree. Sometimes they feel safer when we make choices for them.

How old are your kids?

The point is that of course you don't give your kid a choice between getting dressed or not, etc. The parent decides the child is getting dressed. The "red shirt or blue shirt" thing makes it so that the child starts to learn some form of independence and doesn't feel powerless in having every little detail thrust upon him. It also has a nice side effect of often making the original even much easier to accomplish. There is no safety issue there. You're not saying "so Johnny, do you want to sleep in a bed tonight or out on the street..." This method involves small things, with concrete and concise options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op Here: thanks for all the replies... One question that is related, how do you decide what to ignore in the hopes the behavior extinguishes (on the notion of ignoring won't reinforce it and therefore the child will stop a behavior) and what to correct? Obviously, hitting someone you won't ignore, but what about stuff he's doing to grab attention - do I ignore it so it eventually stops? Or make a point to address it - but then is it giving it too much attention and he will continue so it gets a rise out of me?

I hope that makes sense...

Thanks.

Another point to consider is something I was reading in a book called something like - Taming Your Spirited Child without Breaking His Spirit. That book said to try to step back and figure out your child's goal with his annoying behavior. For instance, I was sitting on the bed nursing my 9 month old baby, and my 2.5 year old toddler was wandering around the room throwing things on the floor. This was starting to get me mad, but my book says that if my toddler makes me mad, the toddler wins because she has just shown how much power she has by controlling my emotions. So I figured out that my toddler's goal was really to get my attention. I just up and said, "I think you're trying to get my attention, but why don't you just come over here and snuggle with us?" To my relief, it actually worked. She hopped up on the bed, and snuggled with me and the baby. Wow, that was a great moment.

Another book I read also mentioned that sometimes toddlers are trying to get our attention, and some people say to ignore them because that is what they want. This book is called Playful Parenting by Larry Cohen. The author said that is a pretty silly thing to do because they are trying to tell you that they need you, so not responding isn't always appropriate. If their "attention" cup is half full, then we may need to try to figure out a way to fill it up by giving them appropriate attention.

Op here: OMGosh, I think I would cry if that worked for me! BUt I will certainly try it...