basis woes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That was just mid year. I bet it will be at least a 10% attrition rate by year end.

BASIS doesn't return the per pupil funding when the students leave after the count day in October.

To be honest, I'm pleasantly surprised the Charter School Board is doing anything at all. Interesting.

BASIS does not engage in social promotion. Starting in 6th grade, every student must pass comprehensive exams in all core subjects at the end of the year in order to advance to the next grade.

To provide kids with mid-year feedback on their chances for advancement, BASIS administers pre-comprehensive exams in February. These "pre-comps" are just as hard as the year-end comps, but only cover the material taught through February.

The 6% attrition noted in the article is probably due in large part to this year's pre-comp results. If a kid fails his pre-comps, is unlikely to catch up by the end of the year, and does not want to repeat the grade, then it's time to switch schools.

Most of the kids still at BASIS today did well enough on their pre-comps that they are likely to pass their comps and be promoted. There is little reason for them to leave now.

It is unlikely that the attrition will increase to 10% by the end of the year.

[Anonymous]

There's a good chance that the pre-comps won't be as shocking to next year's sixth grade class, the majority of whom will have started this year. This is why it is hard to start after 5th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does DCPS return the funding when students leave after count day?[/quote

No. Furthermore, it used to be the case that DCPS was funded based on projected enrollment, while charters have always been funded based on actual enrollment. I wonder if that is still the case.

It is. AND charter payments are quarterly, not so for DCPS. So if charter enrollment shrinks after count day, payments do too. Not so for DCPS, the payment comes in - one time, so if it's "accidentally" over-estimated, there are no consequences.

Under that budgeting reality, a DCPS would have to be an idiot in order yto behave ethically. The clear financial incentive is to be dishonest: $ are directly, positively corellated with deception.

[Anonymous]

From what I read DCPS "overestimates" the number of students year after year by thousands of students And they get to keep the money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
It is. AND charter payments are quarterly, not so for DCPS. So if charter enrollment shrinks after count day, payments do too. Not so for DCPS, the payment comes in - one time, so if it's "accidentally" over-estimated, there are no consequences.

I do not believe that's true. That payments are disbursed quarterly doesn't seem unrealistic. Contracting partners of governments, too, receive disbursements in chunks. But I don't believe they take enrollment fluctuations into account, not at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As someone who has been toying with the idea of shifting high-IQ DD from a private to BASIS in 5th .... this is not welcome news.

Well, the part about the students self-selecting out of BASIS when they find it's not to their liking -- that's fine. The news that kids with significant learning disabilities did not sign up in the first place to get their ass kicked academically, that makes complete sense.

But the part about the Board being shocked, shocked that a lot of former DCPS kids are crying Uncle! is bad. I fear a watering down of the rigor is certainly around the corner. Shoot.

BASIS expected a high attrition rate - this isn't like any other charter school. I encourage your daughter to start in fifth - that is the best grade to start in. They are not going to water down the curriculum for anyone who starts in fifth or sixth (there was a wait list this year after lottery season for sixth) because that would ruin their reputation, which is for a European style rigorous education, with high stakes testing, including objective measures like the O levels in 8th grade (which do not count towards their grades), and numerous APs.

We know one family who left because the kid just did not want to do the amount of work. And it is hard work and you are accountable in several subjects with tests every week and others give surprise or announced quizzes. That way they can find the kids who are suffering academically and try to help them. But I really think to get over testing anxiety and high stakes tests is best done in middle/high school not in college, and is a great gift. They teach study skills as well. Sometimes part of their homework is making flash cards.

This is BASIS's first exposure to an inner city environment outside of Arizona. It is in fact their first school outside of Arizona, and the founders rented an apartment here for the year (the original founders, the Blocks), so that they could help out. I do not believe they were prepared for the variety of educational and social levels that we have here. And many of the unprepared kids made a serious mistake by not taking advantage of the remedial programs like summer school.

I heard one teacher lamenting "what do these kids think, that we don't mean it when we tell them that if they don't shape up academically, we will expel them?" I think that is what those kids, used to years of social promotion, actually thought. After 3 failing quarters you cannot possibly pass, and BASIS has the right to ask anyone who is failing to leave if they are not willing to go to summer school. If you go to summer school and pass your comps, you get to advance. If you fail, you have the right to repeat the grade or leave the school. I see no shame in someone who really wants an education repeating fifth.

Their entire system is based on the fact that 5th grade is not too late for everyone to succeed. And they try really hard. But while they have accepted that the 7th and 8th graders will have a watered down curriculum (just because many of them have still not had Algebra I (which the highest level fifth graders are now taking)), they maintain that the sixth and fifth will not. Certainly as an incoming fifth grader your child will not, but try to get her into the LEAP program by getting her into algebra I and finding out what else it takes.

And although there are no uniforms, they make an effort (that has succeeded) in instilling a culture where education is prized. Every grading period (there are five) class by class there is an awards ceremony for the 90s club, high honors, and distinguished honors. Parents attend. The only bad thing about this is that it, like the grading periods, are cumulative. So if you are knocked out of the highest category by one bad precomp you can probably never get back in. But my dc is friends with a multiracial, multicultural group who are all dedicated to succeeding academically. That and disciplinary problems (and being a boy at the moment) are the only barriers to entry. She has got a great group of girls here who help each other, and she is helping one of her friends with pre-algebra.

We know two special needs kids. One of them is obvious to everyone because I think he has some form of high functioning autism. But he is in the gifted program. The other is under the radar but completely capable of handling the work with proper accommodations, which for the most part have been granted. And there are at least 5 or 6 kids who need to take the elevator (their names are listed on the elevator door) for what I assume are physical disabilities. But I would tend to agree that you have to be extremely gifted if you have a disability of any kind because it is kind of hard for normal well educated kids.

Please do not doubt BASIS. They absolutely will not water down their curriculum for incoming fifth graders, and the education they offer is incredible. My child has been exposed to physics, biology and chemistry and the teachers are all motivated and motivating. She loves history and drama club and is making great strides. She is learning more in her grade than I did in that grade at NCS.

Fairly soon I would hope that BASiS will get a rep and will start attracting the kind of applicants that will do well as students - I think that has happened in Arizona. But no matter how watered down the curriculum is for the upper grades now, it will not be for your child. And the more children we have like you the better off we are. We made the leap, took the risk, and are extremely happy that we did. It is basically like a more rigorous private school. And our child is thrilled - she was ready to go much farther than any other school even the privates would allow her to go now.

So I am not surprised by the attrition - I don't know what the rates are in AZ but they are certainly out of the norm for charters. Attrition is good. I expect a graduating class of 50 or so, all motivated and mostly smart, and a peer group equivalent to a private school but these kids will have much more education under their belts, most will have much less money, and their faces will be shades of white, brown, black and Asian. Size will end up being private school like, everyone will know each others name.

[Anonymous]

This smells an awful lot like singling out one single school and discriminating against it for entirely contrived reasons.

Let's face it, plenty of schools do not meet the needs of every student:
The immersion schools aren't a good fit for everyone.
Carlos Rosario and the other two proposed like it aren't a good fit for everyone.
DC Metropolitan isn't a good fit for everyone.
St. Colettas isn't a good fit for everyone.
Options isn't a good fit for everyone.
Roots isn't a good fit for everyone.

And one could go on and on. There are lots of schools that aren't a good fit for every student. There are lots of schools that do not meet the needs of every student.

It's entirely non-credible to single BASIS out for this. It would make interesting fodder for a major lawsuit, and if it came to that, let's hope BASIS would not lose, because in establishing precedent and case law, it would spell complete disaster for all of the other charters as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know much about the school, but losing 26 kids doesn't seem that bad for a new school of that size to me.

Of course it doesn't "seem that bad" to someone who can't do math. Perhaps if you grow in intelligence, this will all become clear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know much about the school, but losing 26 kids doesn't seem that bad for a new school of that size to me.

Of course it doesn't "seem that bad" to someone who can't do math. Perhaps if you grow in intelligence, this will all become clear.

Can you only come up with ad hominem attacks?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

So I am not surprised by the attrition - I don't know what the rates are in AZ but they are certainly out of the norm for charters. Attrition is good. I expect a graduating class of 50 or so, all motivated and mostly smart, and a peer group equivalent to a private school but these kids will have much more education under their belts, most will have much less money, and their faces will be shades of white, brown, black and Asian. Size will end up being private school like, everyone will know each others name.

Attrition would indeed be good if BASIS and DCPC had a plan to replace kids who can't and won't cope with kids who can and will. We've decided to turn down our 5th grade spot.

Asian kids with Asian parents (like mine) in 12th grade? Show me the money. You might have a few left adopted by whites, but Asian parents have shown almost no interest in any DC public HS to date.

Sadly, the weak facilities at BASIS will be a non-starter for many, perhaps most, other parents of the city's strongest students outside Upper NW (the only area with a fairly high-performing MS and HS). When I visited, the lack of performance space and sports facilities turned me off. I went to MIT and was only saved by super nerdom in HS by playing in the band and running track. My asphalt-ringed NYC MS and HS rented playing fields elsewhere, which BASIS seems to have no plan to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So I am not surprised by the attrition - I don't know what the rates are in AZ but they are certainly out of the norm for charters. Attrition is good. I expect a graduating class of 50 or so, all motivated and mostly smart, and a peer group equivalent to a private school but these kids will have much more education under their belts, most will have much less money, and their faces will be shades of white, brown, black and Asian. Size will end up being private school like, everyone will know each others name.

Attrition would indeed be good if BASIS and DCPC had a plan to replace kids who can't and won't cope with kids who can and will. We've decided to turn down our 5th grade spot.

Asian kids with Asian parents (like mine) in 12th grade? Show me the money. You might have a few left adopted by whites, but Asian parents have shown almost no interest in any DC public HS to date.

Sadly, the weak facilities at BASIS will be a non-starter for many, perhaps most, other parents of the city's strongest students outside Upper NW (the only area with a fairly high-performing MS and HS). When I visited, the lack of performance space and sports facilities turned me off. I went to MIT and was only saved by super nerdom in HS by playing in the band and running track. My asphalt-ringed NYC MS and HS rented playing fields elsewhere, which BASIS seems to have no plan to do.

BASIS replaces older kids who can't cope with younger kids, who, because they start in 5th, have a better chance of coping eventually. A cohort of about 150 5th graders will probably shrink to 40 or 50 by graduation. Perhaps a test-in model would be more efficient, but it is against the BASIS philosophy and the DC charter law.

As for high enrollment of Asian kids with Asian parents, are there any studies that demonstrate that it is a good proxy for the caliber of a school? Why would it matter except to families who want their Asian kids to go to school with other Asian kids? People self-segregate for various reasons.

By they way, have you considered moving to VA and applying to TJ? It seems to offer the ethnic composition you seek. Be careful though, I understand that there might be a demographic shift in progress there.

As for facilities, BASIS is just a few blocks from the Mall. At my asphalt-ringed NYC prep school, we made use of Riverside Park, which was a comparable distance from the school. Weak facilities are not surprising given the location. Real estate in Penn Quarter is not cheap. On the other hand, I am very happy to have DC in school near my office and we meet for lunch frequently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So I am not surprised by the attrition - I don't know what the rates are in AZ but they are certainly out of the norm for charters. Attrition is good. I expect a graduating class of 50 or so, all motivated and mostly smart, and a peer group equivalent to a private school but these kids will have much more education under their belts, most will have much less money, and their faces will be shades of white, brown, black and Asian. Size will end up being private school like, everyone will know each others name.

Attrition would indeed be good if BASIS and DCPC had a plan to replace kids who can't and won't cope with kids who can and will. We've decided to turn down our 5th grade spot.

Asian kids with Asian parents (like mine) in 12th grade? Show me the money. You might have a few left adopted by whites, but Asian parents have shown almost no interest in any DC public HS to date.

Sadly, the weak facilities at BASIS will be a non-starter for many, perhaps most, other parents of the city's strongest students outside Upper NW (the only area with a fairly high-performing MS and HS). When I visited, the lack of performance space and sports facilities turned me off. I went to MIT and was only saved by super nerdom in HS by playing in the band and running track. My asphalt-ringed NYC MS and HS rented playing fields elsewhere, which BASIS seems to have no plan to do.

The anticipation has always been and still will be that grades thin out, they primarily feed the school with large incoming classes in the lower grades, primarily 5th - attrition was always expected, and it happens at the BASIS AZ schools as well, and that approach of how to replace them has been working just fine there for years. They won't be taking kids at the higher grades, as anyone incoming will be far behind. The overwhelming majority of kids that drop out are the ones without strong academic skills, who drop out because they were struggling with the curriculum, weren't passing comps, the ones faced with having to receive extra tutoring or repeating grades if they are to keep up. BASIS DC sets a high bar, and doesn't do social promotion. There's no "oh here Johnny, it's OK, we'll pass you on to the next grade even though you goofed off, talked and were disruptive in every single class, didn't do your homework and failed every assignment and test, one after another" as there would be in every other DCPS and PCS in DC - including in those upper NW schools.

Currently, they have a very strong 5th grade cohort - currently over 50% of them are with a 90% or better average - that percentage in the 90s club went up as kids either got serious or dropped out - they got stronger. And those were not "easy A's" as one finds in other schools - the kids had to work hard for them.

If you turned down your spot at BASIS, and you aren't IB at the NW schools, then where are you going? And, good luck finding a school where your DC could have the opportunity to take Algebra I in 5th grade if your DC is indeed a strong performer.

And FYI, you are incorrect in suggesting Asian families won't seek BASIS out as there are Asian families at BASIS now (and not just adopted Asian kids). And, I expect even more will seek it out once word of some of BASIS DC's major successes gets out, like winning the statewide Science Bowl and representing DC in the National Science Bowl.

[Anonymous]

Isn't winning the District of Columbia science bowl a little like being the best bob sledder in Jamaica?

Or did the kids beat students from St. Albans and GDS? If so, I retract the bob sled comment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So I am not surprised by the attrition - I don't know what the rates are in AZ but they are certainly out of the norm for charters. Attrition is good. I expect a graduating class of 50 or so, all motivated and mostly smart, and a peer group equivalent to a private school but these kids will have much more education under their belts, most will have much less money, and their faces will be shades of white, brown, black and Asian. Size will end up being private school like, everyone will know each others name.

Attrition would indeed be good if BASIS and DCPC had a plan to replace kids who can't and won't cope with kids who can and will. We've decided to turn down our 5th grade spot.

Asian kids with Asian parents (like mine) in 12th grade? Show me the money. You might have a few left adopted by whites, but Asian parents have shown almost no interest in any DC public HS to date.

Sadly, the weak facilities at BASIS will be a non-starter for many, perhaps most, other parents of the city's strongest students outside Upper NW (the only area with a fairly high-performing MS and HS). When I visited, the lack of performance space and sports facilities turned me off. I went to MIT and was only saved by super nerdom in HS by playing in the band and running track. My asphalt-ringed NYC MS and HS rented playing fields elsewhere, which BASIS seems to have no plan to do.

The anticipation has always been and still will be that grades thin out, they primarily feed the school with large incoming classes in the lower grades, primarily 5th - attrition was always expected, and it happens at the BASIS AZ schools as well, and that approach of how to replace them has been working just fine there for years. They won't be taking kids at the higher grades, as anyone incoming will be far behind. The overwhelming majority of kids that drop out are the ones without strong academic skills, who drop out because they were struggling with the curriculum, weren't passing comps, the ones faced with having to receive extra tutoring or repeating grades if they are to keep up. BASIS DC sets a high bar, and doesn't do social promotion. There's no "oh here Johnny, it's OK, we'll pass you on to the next grade even though you goofed off, talked and were disruptive in every single class, didn't do your homework and failed every assignment and test, one after another" as there would be in every other DCPS and PCS in DC - including in those upper NW schools.

Currently, they have a very strong 5th grade cohort - currently over 50% of them are with a 90% or better average - that percentage in the 90s club went up as kids either got serious or dropped out - they got stronger. And those were not "easy A's" as one finds in other schools - the kids had to work hard for them.

If you turned down your spot at BASIS, and you aren't IB at the NW schools, then where are you going? And, good luck finding a school where your DC could have the opportunity to take Algebra I in 5th grade if your DC is indeed a strong performer.

And FYI, you are incorrect in suggesting Asian families won't seek BASIS out as there are Asian families at BASIS now (and not just adopted Asian kids). And, I expect even more will seek it out once word of some of BASIS DC's major successes gets out, like winning the statewide Science Bowl and representing DC in the National Science Bowl.

Why is it that so many pro-BASIS posts seem to come straight from a PR department? I feel like I can't trust anything I hear about BASIS on this forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So I am not surprised by the attrition - I don't know what the rates are in AZ but they are certainly out of the norm for charters. Attrition is good. I expect a graduating class of 50 or so, all motivated and mostly smart, and a peer group equivalent to a private school but these kids will have much more education under their belts, most will have much less money, and their faces will be shades of white, brown, black and Asian. Size will end up being private school like, everyone will know each others name.

Attrition would indeed be good if BASIS and DCPC had a plan to replace kids who can't and won't cope with kids who can and will. We've decided to turn down our 5th grade spot.

Asian kids with Asian parents (like mine) in 12th grade? Show me the money. You might have a few left adopted by whites, but Asian parents have shown almost no interest in any DC public HS to date.

Sadly, the weak facilities at BASIS will be a non-starter for many, perhaps most, other parents of the city's strongest students outside Upper NW (the only area with a fairly high-performing MS and HS). When I visited, the lack of performance space and sports facilities turned me off. I went to MIT and was only saved by super nerdom in HS by playing in the band and running track. My asphalt-ringed NYC MS and HS rented playing fields elsewhere, which BASIS seems to have no plan to do.

And how old are your kids? Entering preK and K? Obnoxious Cantonese poster, thought you moved to MoCo. Your constant harping about "adopted" Asian kids vs the "Asian kids with Asian parents (like mine)" is obnoxious and embarrassing to other Asians (like me). What?!? Asian kids who are adopted aren't "really" Asian. You turn my stomach...