If your spouse was a big law counsel/senior associate & did not make partner the first time up, then

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are definitely tiers in Law Firms. Who would doubt this? There are the top rank, then 2nd tier and so on. There are small specialty firms, and there are small firms with fewer partners. Works better for some.

But this has nothing to do with OP's question. People are laughing at pp jumping in to brag about her husband. Has nothing to do with the existence of tiers or rankings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your spouse was a big law counsel/senior associate and did not make partner the first time up, then did your spouse leave their law firm or look for another job while trying to make partner for the second and final time (up and out)? If your spouse did not make partner, then in what ways did you support your spouse afterwards? Did your spouse realize that there is more to life than big law? Did your spouse find a job they are happy with in government, in an in-house counsel position, or in a small or midsize firm?

OP, I would just let it play out and follow your spouses lead. I would not push them to try again, but not dissuade them either. Obviously every firm is different, but my DH's ex firm, those who were not going to make partner either were made "of counsel" or were softly told to start looking elsewhere and given many months to do so and save face. No one was thrown onto the street.

FWIW, my DH was laid off in 2009 when he was a 2nd year. He eventually landed an in house gig and it was really a blessing in disguise for our family. I'm not sure he ever would have left on his own.

[Anonymous]

Yes, my DH did leave his firm and make partner at another. But I do not know if I would recommend that. If another firm offers, then of course, your DH may want to consider that. If he is at "the top" going downward to another level may not be what he wants to do (or in his best interest) It is a very tough time, and a big decsion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, my DH did leave his firm and make partner at another. But I do not know if I would recommend that. If another firm offers, then of course, your DH may want to consider that. If he is at "the top" going downward to another level may not be what he wants to do (or in his best interest) It is a very tough time, and a big decsion.

I'm the 2nd PP - in the same predicament so I'm curious. If your DH made it at the next firm, why do you not recommend it? I would think you would not recommend switching firms if it meant slogging somewhere else for 2-3 years and still not making it. Is there something about that next partnership that makes you/him feel like he'd be better off in some other position?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I know in DH's biglaw firm it is not unheard of for an associate to make it the second time. Think big 3.

There is no such thing as a "Big 3" law firm. You have spent too much time on the private school boards.

+1

Okay sorry- Top 3. Just don't want to say the exact name. Basically it's the top 1. Do a survey- look at Above the Law, Washingtonian, whatever. Tip top.

Oh, pathetic SAHM, trying to ride your husband's professional (and financial) coattails.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know in DH's biglaw firm it is not unheard of for an associate to make it the second time. Think big 3.

There is no such thing as a "Big 3" law firm. You have spent too much time on the private school boards.

+1

Okay sorry- Top 3. Just don't want to say the exact name. Basically it's the top 1. Do a survey- look at Above the Law, Washingtonian, whatever. Tip top.

Wow, he clearly earns the money and you sit on your ass, huh? He's at Wachtell? If you want to brag about your HUSBAND'S job, then at least use the correct terminology: Vault 5 (V5), V10 etc.

[Anonymous]

^^

Wait, a DC firm so not even at the best firm? That's sad.

[Anonymous]

Vault means nothing to clients. It's all about Amlaw and as Amlaw makes clear different firms are "top" for different things. For instance, if you want to do Supreme Court appellate work the "top" firm for such work is not the same firm that is "top" for M&A. Note my tongue in cheek use of "top," as often there are multiple "top" firms for each specialty because of the amount of work to go around, changing client relationships, conflicts, etc. The poster posting about "tip top" etc. is clearly not in the industry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Vault means nothing to clients. It's all about Amlaw and as Amlaw makes clear different firms are "top" for different things. For instance, if you want to do Supreme Court appellate work the "top" firm for such work is not the same firm that is "top" for M&A. Note my tongue in cheek use of "top," as often there are multiple "top" firms for each specialty because of the amount of work to go around, changing client relationships, conflicts, etc. The poster posting about "tip top" etc. is clearly not in the industry.

pp 17:46 here. I agree with this! Vault is what law students use when they don't know what practice area they want to work in, or which clients they want to work for. But no one talks about their careers as much as lawyers do. How can the earlier braggy SAHM not know this? Is she allowed in the dining room for dinner conversation or does she sit at the kid's table?

[Anonymous]

PP, here. Most definitely not SAHM, try full-time employes outside the home for 15+ years, pulling down mid 6 figures myself. Just letting OP know all is not lost, and even in the top firms people do make it the second go round. My husbands job IS incredibly impressive- he is at a top firm. Not bragging- just telling it like it is. you wil never convince me certain firms don't have cache and reputations. It's a fact of life. That's not to say he doesn't leave a LOT to be desired as a spouse, and father. He works a crapload and is stressed out more often than not. Probably more a function of his personality than job, but that's beside the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know in DH's biglaw firm it is not unheard of for an associate to make it the second time. Think big 3.

There is no such thing as a "Big 3" law firm. You have spent too much time on the private school boards.

+1

Okay sorry- Top 3. Just don't want to say the exact name. Basically it's the top 1. Do a survey- look at Above the Law, Washingtonian, whatever. Tip top.

By what measure? Revenues overall? Margin by partner? What?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know in DH's biglaw firm it is not unheard of for an associate to make it the second time. Think big 3.

There is no such thing as a "Big 3" law firm. You have spent too much time on the private school boards.

+1

Okay sorry- Top 3. Just don't want to say the exact name. Basically it's the top 1. Do a survey- look at Above the Law, Washingtonian, whatever. Tip top.

Again,

Cravath isn't in DC. Not is Wachtell Lipton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know in DH's biglaw firm it is not unheard of for an associate to make it the second time. Think big 3.

There is no such thing as a "Big 3" law firm. You have spent too much time on the private school boards.

+1

Okay sorry- Top 3. Just don't want to say the exact name. Basically it's the top 1. Do a survey- look at Above the Law, Washingtonian, whatever. Tip top.

By what measure? Revenues overall? Margin by partner? What?

Not a financial measure- reputation, best working environment, employee satisfaction

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The top firm on most lists does not have offices in DC.

With respect to OP's question, what kind of feedback did he get about why he wasn't partner? He should know based on those conversations whether he's got a good chance next year and the revenue/business case just isn't quite there, or whether it's really time to look around.

If he doesn't have a confidante in the partner ranks who can give him this kind of frank info, he's probably not in a position to make it, honestly.

OP here. Thanks everyone for their posts relating to my topic.

My spouse is a counsel/senior associate and is not eligible yet for partnership, but it is on the horizon and there is a feeling that our livelihood is tied to making partner (home, schools, lifestyle, extracurricular activities, etc). As each year passes and we are closer to finding out we have pits in our stomachs. I am trying to be supportive and not show my anxiety because my spouse is stressed and working a lot.

My spouse has been told there is a good chance of making partner, but that you never know until the vote. It seems the voting is very secretive and involves much politics. Is this right?

[Anonymous]

The best situation I can equate to partnership voting is fraternity/sorority rush deliberations. If he has heard he has a good shot, then he'll probably make it. The money gets SO much better as a partner, but the work demands are intense.