How to get pull out services for ADHD child

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Science and social studies get short shrift in elementary school for good reason...it is far more important that the child have solid foundational SKILLS in math, reading, an writing.

Yes, there are SOL tests in these subjects in 3-6, but schools understandably spend less time on these subjects. For practical and political purposes, they don't count toward a school's AYP under NCLB. As a teacher, though, I honestly am not that worried if a child can't recite the major contributions of ancient Chinese culture by 2nd grade. She'll be exposed to the topic again in 5th grade, and even then if she doesn't fully absorb those concepts it won't hurt her in life. But if she can't read, if she hates to write, if she lacks an understanding of computation or measurement, it will cripple her ability to learn in math, science, social studies, and language arts for years to come. That's why I'm encouraging you not to stress too much about 2's in FCPS.

Additionally, just take a look at the Virginia standards of learning in those subjects for K-6. Some of the standards are so random, so nonsensical, so esoteric, it just doesn't make practical sense to stress about it.

If your son is a good reader, you can help him immensely by finding high-interest historical fiction that can complement what he is learning in Virginia Studies in 4th grade and American Studies in 6th. You can dine great nonfiction to spark an interest in science.

It is sad that political pressures have forced good teachers to gear instruction toward so much surface knowledge in these topics, which kids gmhave to regurgitate through standardized multiple choice tests, rather than using the elementary years to spark an interest and encourage creativity in these areas.

Finally, please remember that a 2 in FCPS is not a grade; it's a measure of mastery. It means your kid sometimes demonstrates mastery of the concepts. That's not bad. Wheel the focus in building success and confidence in math an reading, and do some light reinforcement of science and social studies at home. If he never gets beyond a 3 in those subjects, it is *totally* ok. If he's got math and reading skills, he can succeed in those subjects when it will really matter--middle and high school.

OP here. The FCPS Grading Handbook states that if a student gets a '2' or '1' in any subject, it warrants possibly reteaching the subject and retesting the student. The implication is that it is unacceptable. If social studies and science is that dispensable in 3rd grade, then they ought not to teach it at all. They teach it and it is hoped and expected that children will learn. My child is a very good student but not in these subjects. His IEP should have something to help him with these subjects.

Wow. You sound like a piece of work. You take one sentence from the handbook and go straight to an"implication" that it's "unacceptable" AND demand a change in his IEP. I feel sorry for your kid and his teachers.

[Anonymous]

^ +1

All this stressing about a 2 in third grade social studies and science!?! I feel sorry for any kid who has a parent like this, NT or SN.

[Anonymous]

Special education is about providing a floor of opportunity NOT maximizing potential. Your wrote your child is not doing well in ONE subject that is not a core subject. You really think a special Ed teacher is going to pull him out to re-teach a science or social studies unit to a kid who can read well. While he is pulled out you need to think what he will be missing in class. He will then fall behind on what is being taught in class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow. You sound like a piece of work. You take one sentence from the handbook and go straight to an"implication" that it's "unacceptable" AND demand a change in his IEP. I feel sorry for your kid and his teachers.

Anonymous wrote:^ +1

All this stressing about a 2 in third grade social studies and science!?! I feel sorry for any kid who has a parent like this, NT or SN.

feel sorry for yourselves. she got an IEP and an aide for a child with only ADHD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a teacher, though, I honestly am not that worried if a child can't recite the major contributions of ancient Chinese culture by 2nd grade. She'll be exposed to the topic again in 5th grade, and even then if she doesn't fully absorb those concepts it won't hurt her in life. But if she can't read, if she hates to write, if she lacks an understanding of computation or measurement, it will cripple her ability to learn in math, science, social studies, and language arts for years to come. That's why I'm encouraging you not to stress too much about 2's in FCPS.

As a parent, I'm glad you're not my child's teacher. Your diminished expectations for a special needs student are troubling. If the school teaches it and grades it, even special needs students have a right get the necessary support to master the expected knowledge at the same level expected of other students at the same grade.

At our school, the "major contributions of ancient Chinese culture" aren't being discussed in social studies in 2nd grade. Just simple concepts like what is government, what are taxes, what are the 3 branches of government, etc. If a student doesn't master these in 2nd grade, they may indeed be re-exposed at a higher level, but then they will have to master/learn both the old and new concepts while everyone else is just focusing on the new. This diminished expectation is precisely how special needs students fall behind over time.

While I do agree that some subjects are more foundational/important than other subjects, I don't agree with your conclusion that the rest OP can just "not worry" about. This might be a reasonable approach for a child who has a limited cognitive capacity or needs such excessive repetition or extra time to learn that it's not reasonable to think that child will have enough time to master the curriculum. In this case, OP has described something quite different -- that her child needs pullouts to be able to focus effectively enough to master the material at the same pace and to the same degree as is being expected of other children.

[Anonymous]

OP here.

Sorry, I don't discuss with people who insult me.

As for the meaningful replies...Yes, I do worry about the effect of pull out services. It's not a least restrictive environment. I can't say if it is best for him. I just want to know what, if anything, can be done about the poor grade in this subject.

Upon further discussion w/ the teacher I learned that it's not just this subject he's struggling with. It's any subject which has large group instruction. Math, Reading, Lang Arts are all skills based and he does well in these subjects. It's the non skills based courses that he struggles with.

I don't have to interpret the Grading Handbook, the comment in there was interpreting the rule. I'm simply quoting their interpretation of a '2.' And I think that comments needs to be explained.

My child does very well in all other subjects which leads me to believe that his IEP isn't evening out the playing field in these subjects because he can't concentrate in large group instruction.

And pp, I agree, just because a teacher says social studies isn't important doesn't mean I agree. I want my child to have a well rounded education and unfortunately the schools are too focused on testable subjects only.

[Anonymous]

I guess this is turning into a philosophical discussion...is an IEP meant to turn your child into a superstar? My answer would be no.

[Anonymous]

OP here.

IEP's are not meant for only those children who do poorly in school without it. It's also for those students whose achievement falls far below their ability. So if a child, when the playing field is leveled, can operate two or three grades above his own grade, but his achievement without support is at grade level only - then he may qualify for an IEP also.

I confirmed this with the school.

[Anonymous]

OP I hope you can ignore the comments here. Good for you for caring about your child's education -- his WHOLE education, not just language arts and math. Social studies and science are hardly taught in most schools because very little value is placed on them, because they aren't tested or because the testing doesn't count. But learning about ancient and modern history, geography, government, and different branches of science is what builds deep content knowledge, which DOES become important in tests of reading comprehension at older grades. Without strong background knowledge children will not be able to retain what they are reading in the content area and in expository texts, and this is where many children, including smart kids with ADHD, are failing in reading.

If your child is struggling in Social Studies and Science, despite being a strong reader now, this is worth looking into.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

IEP's are not meant for only those children who do poorly in school without it. It's also for those students whose achievement falls far below their ability. So if a child, when the playing field is leveled, can operate two or three grades above his own grade, but his achievement without support is at grade level only - then he may qualify for an IEP also.

I confirmed this with the school.

what about NT kids "whose achievement falls far below their ability" do? can they get an IEP too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

IEP's are not meant for only those children who do poorly in school without it. It's also for those students whose achievement falls far below their ability. So if a child, when the playing field is leveled, can operate two or three grades above his own grade, but his achievement without support is at grade level only - then he may qualify for an IEP also.

I confirmed this with the school.

what about NT kids "whose achievement falls far below their ability" do? can they get an IEP too?

it would depend on why the nt kid is not achieving commensurate with ability. is the NT kid just a child with some kind of disability that is having an adverse effect on their access to their education? Then, yes, they should get an IEP or 504. The premise of these laws is that disabled kids should have equal access to free appropriate public education. The OP is suggesting that the differential in performance reflects an inability to access the education being provided in SS/Sci, because it is not being delivered in the way required to be successful due to the disability. The disability is something that the student has no choice about. iit is an immutable characteristic that should not be discriminated against - just like being female, or minority, or gay/straight, etc.

[Anonymous]

Pull out services means losing time in the classroom. If he's not doing well in those classes, losing time in the classroom is not ideal.

And for only having ADHD (which usually only warrants a 504 plan) having an aide and an IEP is already overkill.

There should be accommodations in the classroom to help him. If there are, there is no need for pullout services.

[Anonymous]

Curious which school/school system around here allows an aide and IEP for just ADHD. I am amazed OP got this. I know kids with more severe disabilities who were denied an IEP and certainly no aide in MoCo.

[Anonymous]

OP here. PP, how do you know exactly my child's issues are? His disability is severe enough that he can not function in a classroom without support. When he was 3, 4, and 5 years old he was counseled out of three preschools. He was outright rejected by one. Even with medication this school has now has determined he needs an IEP with an aide (for about two hours a day).

I absolutely resent that you said "for only having ADHD (which warrants a 504 plan)." We went the 504 route last year and he still struggled in social studies and science.

Btw, my child not only has ADHD but also has sensory integration challenges. There is no psychiatric diagnosis for SPD but the symptoms are there and affect his daily life and learning.

I'm sorry if your school does not help children like my child but that doesn't mean my child shouldn't receive this help. It means your school should provide it for yours.

I don't want to get into a philosophical debate. I just want to find out how to prove to the IEP team that he needs additional help for science and social studies. Pull out services may NOT be ideal for him, I admit that. But there must be something they can do, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. PP, how do you know exactly my child's issues are? His disability is severe enough that he can not function in a classroom without support. When he was 3, 4, and 5 years old he was counseled out of three preschools. He was outright rejected by one. Even with medication this school has now has determined he needs an IEP with an aide (for about two hours a day).

I absolutely resent that you said "for only having ADHD (which warrants a 504 plan)." We went the 504 route last year and he still struggled in social studies and science.

Btw, my child not only has ADHD but also has sensory integration challenges. There is no psychiatric diagnosis for SPD but the symptoms are there and affect his daily life and learning.

I'm sorry if your school does not help children like my child but that doesn't mean my child shouldn't receive this help. It means your school should provide it for yours.

I don't want to get into a philosophical debate. I just want to find out how to prove to the IEP team that he needs additional help for science and social studies. Pull out services may NOT be ideal for him, I admit that. But there must be something they can do, right?

I went with your original post, which said that your child has ADHD. Typically for ADHD/ADD there are accommodations and a 504 plan, not an IEP. I'm unclear why you're interpreting that as a dig on you personally.

You did not mention there were other things going on. And I did not mention anything about my children or their school.

Of course there are things that can be done. What kind of accommodations does he have in the classroom right now? What are his goals on his IEP? Are their strategies that he is being taught in school? Any clues as to why he's doing fine in math and language arts but not in social studies or science?