Are this year's CogAT scores age-adjusted or not?

[Anonymous]

19:11- Seriously??????

[Anonymous]

Funny...if techers could be bought, I would be forking over cash everyday. However, this is FCPS, not...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Age is irrelevant in testing for AAP.

FCPS is not looking to identify who is gifted and who isn't. They are looking for who will succeed in AAP. There is no need for age adjustment to find the kids who are scoring in the top 5% of FCPS second graders.

Kids who are ready will stand out regardless of age, an even regardless of the Cogat score.

Yeah, those young kids who got screwed should just stay in the general ed. So why does the admissions committee place so much weight on the NNAT (age normalized) and even more on the WISC, an IQ test also normalized for age?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look people. FCPS has no data to even adjust this test for age. Its possible for fcps students, no age adjustment is needed. Its also possible, the younger kids dont keep up as well with the older kids in aap. AAP does not grade adjust based on age once the kid is in aap. In the end a lack of age adjustment would only affect a very few kids that are near the borderline of making the auto pool and certainly not worth any wholesale fuss. In the end the auto pool (95%) kid gets the same look as the referred kid. Its been said, historically that 30%-40% of the slots go to referred aap pool kids. Thats a lot. Stop complaining. Considering the auto pool threshold was harder to make this year for cogat, that increases the chances of the self referrals as there should be less overall total kids fcps will have to sift through assuming they keep the aap numbers at a similar current level.

FCPS has no data to even adjust this test for age.

How can you say this? The know the pool scores, they know the individual scores, and they know the age of each child. Of course it can be age normalized. The national test is, as is the NNAT, this is just a smaller sample, but surely large enough to age normalize.

Its possible for fcps students, no age adjustment is needed. Its also possible, the younger kids dont keep up as well with the older kids in aap.

Why is no age adjustment needed in Fairfax County, but it is common practice in national tests (NNAT) and IQ Tests as a rule. How do you know that younger kids do not keep up in AAP. My August young son, now in AAP grade 4 is doing great, and is in the highest math group out of 4 classes. Are you trying to say that this is an intentional method being used by the County to weed out younger kids who cannot match scores with those one year older?

In the end a lack of age adjustment would only affect a very few kids that are near the borderline of making the auto pool and certainly not worth any wholesale fuss.

Whether or not it is worth a fuss is your opinion. The test is flawed and it cuts both ways. Younger kids who are on the cusp may not make the pool, and older ones who edged in with 95% may be out of the pool if age adjusted. If the total is held at 5%, then some have to be out when others qualify in under age normalization. How can you surmise how many are effected? Age adjustment may affect the upper quarter of kids (oldest) down and lower quarter of students up (youngest). That could swing a few hundred in our out of the pool across the entire county.

Its been said, historically that 30%-40% of the slots go to referred aap pool kids. Thats a lot. Stop complaining.

Not sure how many will go to referred kids this year, as they are apparently trying to lower the number. Regardless, many who are referred in by parents need to show some level of testing that demonstrates they meet the pool group. Most frequently it is with a WISC under the appeal. This is expensive for many families and a process that many parents may not know. It is additional work and expense that should not have to be incurred in the County would have simply, and properly normalized the scores in a proper way. These people should have made the test more fair, not less by now creating yet another controversy in the selection process. Not sure why you need to be so condescending in your tone.

Considering the auto pool threshold was harder to make this year for cogat, that increases the chances of the self referrals as there should be less overall total kids fcps will have to sift through assuming they keep the aap numbers at a similar current level.

First of all, I thought the consensus is they are trying to lower the total level, not keep it the same. Second, I am not sure, but how many kids qualified for the pool based upon CogAT scores? Was it greater than 5% last year as you imply? You make a very poor case for those screwed out of the pool due to their young age.

+1000 - excellent post!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I agree with all these concerns.

But if FCPS truly wants the best kids in the class, regardless of age, it takes the top 5%. It's just another way to look at it.

As it is currently in most FCPS starting from 1st grade, reading groups, math groups, and word study groups are all grouped according to performance on an assessment, not "potential". This is the same thing, just on a bigger scale.

What nonsense! Have you seen these tests? They have nothing to do with grade-level reading, word study etc. They are testing intelligence indicators which are totally affected by age and maturity, not knowledge. So the whole argument "if they cannot be among the 5%, they do not deserve AAP placement anyway" is totally rubbish. And FYI, many of the younger kids, who are doubly diadvantaged by this year's stupid decision not to age-adjust the test, are already in the pool based on their performance in last year's (age-adjusted) NNAT test. So it's not an issue of being in the pool or not, but whether it is even legitimate to administer and use a test like CogAT (which is totally affected by age) and leave the scores unadjusted...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don't attack me but is it possible to approach the second grade teacher and offer them remuneration for good GBRS? How much has anyone had to pay before to get high GBRS?

Why the FUCK would you do this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don't attack me but is it possible to approach the second grade teacher and offer them remuneration for good GBRS? How much has anyone had to pay before to get high GBRS?

Haha!

Love the trolling tonight.

Very creative ladies

[Anonymous]

I hate to admit it but last year I offered my DC's second grade teacher $500 for at leat 13 GBRS and she accepted and we got them and DC was accepted (NNAT was 123 and CogAT was 119). I believe that it was money well spent as now my child will be able to succeed through the rest of her academic career.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hate to admit it but last year I offered my DC's second grade teacher $500 for at leat 13 GBRS and she accepted and we got them and DC was accepted (NNAT was 123 and CogAT was 119). I believe that it was money well spent as now my child will be able to succeed through the rest of her academic career.

Your willingness to do this is a testament to your dedication as a parent. You are to be admired and emulated. Every success your child experiences in life will be due to the sacrifices you made at this critical time in your DC's development. You are obviously a very smart, professional person with wonderful cheekbones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't attack me but is it possible to approach the second grade teacher and offer them remuneration for good GBRS? How much has anyone had to pay before to get high GBRS?

Haha!

Love the trolling tonight.

Very creative ladies

+1

My 2nd grader can only handle Geometry and is not ready for Algebra 2 yet. Will this be held against her when compared to the rest of the 2nd graders? She does have an August birthday and I think the Fairfax Abilities Test is not fair to younger students like her.

[Anonymous]

Is it just the red shirt moms who like the test not age adjusted? Selfish. I'm sure there are plenty of summer birthday kids at the top of their 2nd grade class. And if you think the younger kids don't do we'll in aap then you are clueless! Please only use real facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is it just the red shirt moms who like the test not age adjusted? Selfish. I'm sure there are plenty of summer birthday kids at the top of their 2nd grade class. And if you think the younger kids don't do we'll in aap then you are clueless! Please only use real facts.

Real facts are hard to come by in this system.

[Anonymous]

My dd's third grade AAP class had a large majority of fall birthdays. The older kids have always had an advantage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My dd's third grade AAP class had a large majority of fall birthdays. The older kids have always had an advantage.

That's why you expect that at least the tests that try to measure intelligence would take age into consideration. And all of them do, except for this mysterious "custom" CogAT this year that nobody knows much about (from a statistical point of view)... Isn't it suspicious that we only got some bare percentages and no other information? How come and in previous years there wasn't any unusual noise about the CogAT results and this year we have so many parents shocked by their kids's scores?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:this year we have so many parents shocked by their kids's scores?

Because they don't understand that the NNAT last year and the CogAT this year have total different percentile base.
Last year's NNAT percentile is based on nationwide data. The traditional nationwide percentile of 98% cutoff results in about 18-19% FCPS kids into the pool, so basically the nationwide 98 percentile is about 80%-85% FCPS percentile, give or take. NNAT 99 nationwide percentile probably translates into CogAT 90 FCPS percentile, give or take.
This is more an estimate based on the historical data, take it or leave it.