Offensive post

[Anonymous]

That's a slippery slope if I ever saw one...

[Anonymous]

I was surprised by the offensive post too until I did a quick google search. A June 2007 CNN/Opinion Research Opinion Corporation poll found the following statistics on American beliefs about gay marriage and adoption. Sadly, the majority of Americans do NOT believe gay couples should be able to adopt children.

I believe 100 percent in gay marriage and adoption, but then again, I've only lived in DC and NY. Anyway, here's the stats. I think the anti-hate group suggested by one poster is a good idea - maybe its goal should be to educate Americans?

On the question of gay marriage, 43 percent of respondents in May said they would not support same-sex marriage or civil unions, which provide many, if not most, of the same legal protections as marriage. Twenty-four percent said they supported same-sex marriage, while 27 percent opted for civil unions.

But a majority of poll respondents -- 57 percent -- said gay and lesbian couples should have the legal right to adopt children. Forty percent said they should not.

The sampling error for those questions was plus or minus 3 percentage points.

[Anonymous]

Shoot, sorry! PP here. What an idiot. I'm reading the poll now - and it says only 40 percent (the MINORITY) does not support adoption.

Still not the numbers I would expect, but sorry for misreading!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was surprised by the offensive post too until I did a quick google search. A June 2007 CNN/Opinion Research Opinion Corporation poll found the following statistics on American beliefs about gay marriage and adoption. Sadly, the majority of Americans do NOT believe gay couples should be able to adopt children.

I believe 100 percent in gay marriage and adoption, but then again, I've only lived in DC and NY. Anyway, here's the stats. I think the anti-hate group suggested by one poster is a good idea - maybe its goal should be to educate Americans?

On the question of gay marriage, 43 percent of respondents in May said they would not support same-sex marriage or civil unions, which provide many, if not most, of the same legal protections as marriage. Twenty-four percent said they supported same-sex marriage, while 27 percent opted for civil unions.

But a majority of poll respondents -- 57 percent -- said gay and lesbian couples should have the legal right to adopt children. Forty percent said they should not.

The sampling error for those questions was plus or minus 3 percentage points.

A majority of Americans did not approve of mixed race marriages either - until almost 20 years after the Supreme Court struck down laws that prohibited them.

[Anonymous]

Jeff- I am usually fully behind you about allowing open debates to occur uncensored. I was there when the "simple Jew question" was posted and I saw it as a poorly masked racial attack, but it was structured in such a way to be a debate about characteristics of Jewish women so you had to give it the benefit of the doubt. If someone had posted "Blacks should not have children" or "Jews should not bring children into the world" in the title would you have allowed that to go on? Allowing people to post without identifying themselves is your choice, but by doing so you open the door up to bullies who use their anonymity to harass and intimidate a large segment of the DCUM community. I've done what you suggested and spent a good part of my night bumping up older messages and creating new ones as a way to move the nasty post off page one, but it doesn't really solve the problem. I usually have great respect for you over these issues but in this case I see you as the kid who keeps an eye out for the teacher while the bullies kick the crap out of the little geeky kid. You are helping to create an environment in which bullies thrive and have no accountability for their actions by ignoring these type of posts.

RRD

[Anonymous]

I kind of like the idea of a bigotry forum: "Get your fresh hot hate speech here!" But as an alternative, would it help at all if you had lots of people reply to the offensive post with posts supporting adoption by gay and lesbian couples? Drowning out the OP as it were? A post requesting support in the Off-Topic forum could potentially generate a significant response. Of course, you would also get some more haters, but I think that the majority of DCUM would be supportive--or am I wrong?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:Jeff- I am usually fully behind you about allowing open debates to occur uncensored. I was there when the "simple Jew question" was posted and I saw it as a poorly masked racial attack, but it was structured in such a way to be a debate about characteristics of Jewish women so you had to give it the benefit of the doubt. If someone had posted "Blacks should not have children" or "Jews should not bring children into the world" in the title would you have allowed that to go on? Allowing people to post without identifying themselves is your choice, but by doing so you open the door up to bullies who use their anonymity to harass and intimidate a large segment of the DCUM community. I've done what you suggested and spent a good part of my night bumping up older messages and creating new ones as a way to move the nasty post off page one, but it doesn't really solve the problem. I usually have great respect for you over these issues but in this case I see you as the kid who keeps an eye out for the teacher while the bullies kick the crap out of the little geeky kid. You are helping to create an environment in which bullies thrive and have no accountability for their actions by ignoring these type of posts.

RRD

I would not remove posts about blacks or Jews not having children. Similarly, I would not remove posts that attacked groups with which I have more of a personal affinity. Indeed, you can find plenty of posts on this board attacking me personally. Having been a little geeky kid (and not having changed all that much over the years), I have been the object of bullying many times. I learned that running to the teacher would only lead to a further butt-kicking when the bully retaliated for any resulting punishment. Learning to fight back, on the other hand, often caused potential bullies to have second thoughts.

Basically, I get blamed for things around here either way. If I delete messages I deem inappropriate, I get accused of being a censor or a dictator. If I don't delete messages I deem inappropriate, I am protecting bullies. And, of course, there are all the cases in which I don't consider a post inappropriate, but someone else does. In that case, I am a biased so and so who is both a dictator and a protecter of bullies. Given that there is no way to win, I have chosen my preferred way to lose. I'll take the hit for allowing someone to express an unpopular view.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:I kind of like the idea of a bigotry forum: "Get your fresh hot hate speech here!" But as an alternative, would it help at all if you had lots of people reply to the offensive post with posts supporting adoption by gay and lesbian couples? Drowning out the OP as it were? A post requesting support in the Off-Topic forum could potentially generate a significant response. Of course, you would also get some more haters, but I think that the majority of DCUM would be supportive--or am I wrong?

I have no interest in a bigotry forum and will not be establishing one here. Regarding your second idea, in just about every instance in which an inappropriate post has been posted here, users have flooded the thread with with messages countering the expressed viewpoint. Indeed, the topic under discussion here was one such example in which not one follow-up was supportive of the original post.

By and large, DCUM is a supportive and tolerant community. It sad that some users have so little faith in it.

I invite users who are still interested in the topic of inappropriate threads to review this discussion regarding a similarly upsetting topic:

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/6921.page

Also, in the discussion referenced in the above link, I posted a reply from which I would like to quote the following paragraph:

"Finally, it has been repeatedly suggested that if any group other than Jews had been subject of this thread, I would have acted differently. I will choose not to be offended by this suggestion that I have something against Jews, or that I am not sympathetic to the prejudice Jews face in today's America. Rather, let me assure everyone that I would have acted similarly. I would relish the opportunity to see racists, homophobes, or similar ilk exposed to the thoughtful, intelligent, and enlightened expressions of tolerance and respect for diversity that DCUM members constantly display. "

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/45/6913.page#35882

I had faith in our users 7 months ago and I have faith in them now.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:Erasing a message does not change that fact. I think the message serves a purpose to remind everyone about the prejudice that exists out there. It presents a good opportunity for GLBT members who have or wish to adopt to explain the importance of adoption to them.

FAIL.

Here's the flaw with this argument, Jeff: It is not the responsibility of an oppressed group of people to educate their oppressors. The LGBT community is very aware of anti-queer sentiment. The statement is intentionally hurtful and should have been removed.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Erasing a message does not change that fact. I think the message serves a purpose to remind everyone about the prejudice that exists out there. It presents a good opportunity for GLBT members who have or wish to adopt to explain the importance of adoption to them.

FAIL.

Here's the flaw with this argument, Jeff: It is not the responsibility of an oppressed group of people to educate their oppressors. The LGBT community is very aware of anti-queer sentiment. The statement is intentionally hurtful and should have been removed.

Nobody here has a responsibility to do anything. I used the word "opportunity". The opportunity is not necessarily to create awareness in the original poster, but to anyone who might read the message. Erasing messages is easy. Its what you do if you are weak. Changing attitudes is more difficult and requires effort. It takes a bit more strength.

[Anonymous]

If Jsteele is so intent on leaving the post, it should at least be moved to either off topic or the political forum. The poster's intent is obviously not to discuss ideas or issues related to gay & lesbian families but to argue the poster's opinions about gay adoption. They clearly have an agenda other than what that forum is supposed to be about. So why hasn't it been moved?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:If Jsteele is so intent on leaving the post, it should at least be moved to either off topic or the political forum. The poster's intent is obviously not to discuss ideas or issues related to gay & lesbian families but to argue the poster's opinions about gay adoption. They clearly have an agenda other than what that forum is supposed to be about. So why hasn't it been moved?

At least do me the favor of reading the messages in this thread before making demands. I have already explained the problems surrounding "moving" the message, which I was not opposed to doing. Someone has already found an alternative means of dealing with the issue and the offending thread has been buried fairly well.