I don't believe in the right to kill babies

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP
You're entitled to your belief, just don't go running all over foisting your beliefs upon others who disagree with you.

Stop the killing of abortion Md's, stop deceiving women with fake abortion clinics, stop tauting mother's who have made their decision to abort. Have a modicum of respect for the mother.
Just for once sit back and try and comprehend the the facts: Amajority of citizens of this country and the law of land says that this cluster of cells does not have supremacy over the mother's life and choices she/and her family have made. It's so personal a decision, I find you and your ilk lack to sensitivity, you know better, totally mind boggling.
Jus realize the issues the mother is facing go far beyond your narrow borders of the life of the fetus which may or may not be a sustainable life form, YOU DON'T KNOW anything more that a clump of cells is going to be evacuated from the mother's womb and that fact alone has you frothing at the mouth.

Lobby for change. That's your right. Leave mother's alone that their right.

Not op and I'm on the pro-choice side for the most part but can you really call them mothers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you picked the wrong place to have this discussion.

In case you haven't noticed, the reasonable people generally don't participate in this discussion.

DCUM has a very vocal crowd of hard core, pro abortion zealots who like to shut down any rational discussion and pro life opinions. They blindly ignore any recognition of the science of fetal development and prefer to hold to the limited knowledge we had in the 70s vs the advances we have made in medicine.

They are not representative of most normal, thoughtful, rational women, on this board and elsewhere.

You are not going to have an adult discusiion with this crowd, so it is best to not bother.

PP is right. God, I love abortion. I love it SO MUCH. It's the best thing. I love it almost as much as bypass surgery or fibroid removal. I'm a surgery groupie, people, but abortions? Man, they are just my FAVORITE.

[Anonymous]

I guess now being pro-choice means I'm pro-abortion to the mentally deranged PP. Does that mean I need to turn my DD in to some sort of pro-choice -- I'm sorry, "pro-abortion" -- depot? So one of the many anti-choice people can adopt her?

Because so many anti-choice people adopt babies, you know. Like, practically every anti-choice person I know has adopted a baby to prove that they have integrity. You've probably adopted several unwanted children, right? Because otherwise you certainly couldn't live with yourself, knowing that the alternative is condemning babies to be born to women who can't care for them.

(Psst, I know you're too dumb to understand what I'm getting at here, deranged anti-choice PP. Don't try too hard, I don't want you to break your brain.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you picked the wrong place to have this discussion.

In case you haven't noticed, the reasonable people generally don't participate in this discussion.

DCUM has a very vocal crowd of hard core, pro abortion zealots who like to shut down any rational discussion and pro life opinions. They blindly ignore any recognition of the science of fetal development and prefer to hold to the limited knowledge we had in the 70s vs the advances we have made in medicine.

They are not representative of most normal, thoughtful, rational women, on this board and elsewhere.

You are not going to have an adult discusiion with this crowd, so it is best to not bother.

Really. You think that OP's framing of the abortion subject as "baby killing" was the way to begin an "adult" conversation about abortion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you picked the wrong place to have this discussion.

In case you haven't noticed, the reasonable people generally don't participate in this discussion.

DCUM has a very vocal crowd of hard core, pro abortion zealots who like to shut down any rational discussion and pro life opinions. They blindly ignore any recognition of the science of fetal development and prefer to hold to the limited knowledge we had in the 70s vs the advances we have made in medicine.

They are not representative of most normal, thoughtful, rational women, on this board and elsewhere.

You are not going to have an adult discusiion with this crowd, so it is best to not bother.

Really. You think that OP's framing of the abortion subject as "baby killing" was the way to begin an "adult" conversation about abortion?

This is not directed towards you. The other few posters proved my point.

Rather than discussing the science of fetal development, or discuss the the social implications behind their viewpoints in a rational, mature adult way, they hurl insults and sarcasm because they cannot argue their point like adults. They don't want to recognize the extensive, inexpensive and broad access to female managed birth control, the advances the medical community has made regarding the viablility of pre term babies, the advances in fertility methods and the legal arguments concerning custody of the fertilized eggs, the detailed images of fetuses now available through 3d ultrasounds, the sheer number of abortions in spite of advances in birth control and increased knowlege of sex by our teens, and the legions of infertile couples spending their fortune, sweat and tears hoping to have a baby.

I stand by my statement that there is a very vocal pro-abortion contingent on this board, and because of them, reasonable women on both sides of the issue can seldom have a reasonable debate about their opposing views. The pro-life contingent on this board is much, much smaller. No one can argue with that. And the most vocal pro-life advocate here is that earnest Catholic lady. Say what you will about her views, she is always respectful, kind and polite with her presentation of her opinions, even when she has no one in her corner.

Whatever your viewpoint, have a reasonable adult discussion.

[Anonymous]

Rather than discussing the science of fetal development, or discuss the the social implications behind their viewpoints in a rational, mature adult way, they hurl insults and sarcasm because they cannot argue their point like adults.

reasonable women on both sides of the issue can seldom have a reasonable debate about their opposing views.

If the discussion had started that way, you might have a point. But when OP starts it the way she did, expectating someone else to elevate it is a bit much, don't you think? And for what it's worth, your own posts don't exactly elevate the discussion - you talk about a way to have a higher-level discussion, but your posts are basically, "All you who disagree with me are zealots who refuse to have an reasonable discission. You suck." Castigating people is not to way to have a "reasonable debate."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had sympathy for people like you and used to even agree with you.
But as a society we do not provide paid maternity leave, some women cannot afford to give birth, access to birth control is not a right.
Fix other issues first, then you can practice what you preach

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you picked the wrong place to have this discussion.

In case you haven't noticed, the reasonable people generally don't participate in this discussion.

DCUM has a very vocal crowd of hard core, pro abortion zealots who like to shut down any rational discussion and pro life opinions. They blindly ignore any recognition of the science of fetal development and prefer to hold to the limited knowledge we had in the 70s vs the advances we have made in medicine.

They are not representative of most normal, thoughtful, rational women, on this board and elsewhere.

You are not going to have an adult discusiion with this crowd, so it is best to not bother.

Really. You think that OP's framing of the abortion subject as "baby killing" was the way to begin an "adult" conversation about abortion?

This is not directed towards you. The other few posters proved my point.

Rather than discussing the science of fetal development, or discuss the the social implications behind their viewpoints in a rational, mature adult way, they hurl insults and sarcasm because they cannot argue their point like adults. They don't want to recognize the extensive, inexpensive and broad access to female managed birth control, the advances the medical community has made regarding the viablility of pre term babies, the advances in fertility methods and the legal arguments concerning custody of the fertilized eggs, the detailed images of fetuses now available through 3d ultrasounds, the sheer number of abortions in spite of advances in birth control and increased knowlege of sex by our teens, and the legions of infertile couples spending their fortune, sweat and tears hoping to have a baby.

I stand by my statement that there is a very vocal pro-abortion contingent on this board, and because of them, reasonable women on both sides of the issue can seldom have a reasonable debate about their opposing views. The pro-life contingent on this board is much, much smaller. No one can argue with that. And the most vocal pro-life advocate here is that earnest Catholic lady. Say what you will about her views, she is always respectful, kind and polite with her presentation of her opinions, even when she has no one in her corner.

Whatever your viewpoint, have a reasonable adult discussion.

Well, you could start by explaining what you mean by "pro-abortion."

[Anonymous]

a group of scientist and doctors need to do a study and determine when a fetus can feel pain and react to stimuli, that should be the test of when life begins.

[Anonymous]

13:43, here is what I consider to be a pro abortion person. I used the term pro abortion because I feel this person is very different than most women who define themselves as pro choice.

A pro abortion person is one who refuses to let any of the medical and scientific advances in the realm of fetal development be part of the abortion debate or discussion. They feel that we should use 1973 knowledge to frame our 2012 debate, even though so much has changed in the past 40 years. They believe in completely unrestricted abortion on demand through the entire term of pregnancy. They believe a viable fetus is only a life if the mother wants it, even though courts have charged people (drunk drivers for example) for killing a baby in utero. They don't recognize the barbaric hippocrisy of our country saying the only difference between the value of the life of a viable fetus is whether or not a mother wants it. They are okay with a hospital not caring for a botched aborted fetus that came out alive, and are okay with an abortion occuring on a full term fetus. They support that elementary aged girls in California can be taken by a school official for an abortion without her parent's knowledge and permission, even though that same child cannot carry her epipen, inhaler, aspirin or cough drops at school and cannot get her ears pierced without permission or a tattoo with permission.

They rely on scare tactics (Such as if there are any regulations to abortion, no matter how reasonable, then women everywhere are going to be dying from botched coat hanger abortions). They rely on insults (Have you read some of the rude posts on this board? They are not from the reasonable pro-choice majority here.) And they absolutely refuse to bring the abortion debate in line with scientific advances of this century.

That is what I would define as a pro abortion person. Thank you for asking in such a polite manner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:13:43, here is what I consider to be a pro abortion person. I used the term pro abortion because I feel this person is very different than most women who define themselves as pro choice.

A pro abortion person is one who refuses to let any of the medical and scientific advances in the realm of fetal development be part of the abortion debate or discussion. They feel that we should use 1973 knowledge to frame our 2012 debate, even though so much has changed in the past 40 years. They believe in completely unrestricted abortion on demand through the entire term of pregnancy. They believe a viable fetus is only a life if the mother wants it, even though courts have charged people (drunk drivers for example) for killing a baby in utero. They don't recognize the barbaric hippocrisy of our country saying the only difference between the value of the life of a viable fetus is whether or not a mother wants it. They are okay with a hospital not caring for a botched aborted fetus that came out alive, and are okay with an abortion occuring on a full term fetus. They support that elementary aged girls in California can be taken by a school official for an abortion without her parent's knowledge and permission, even though that same child cannot carry her epipen, inhaler, aspirin or cough drops at school and cannot get her ears pierced without permission or a tattoo with permission.

They rely on scare tactics (Such as if there are any regulations to abortion, no matter how reasonable, then women everywhere are going to be dying from botched coat hanger abortions). They rely on insults (Have you read some of the rude posts on this board? They are not from the reasonable pro-choice majority here.) And they absolutely refuse to bring the abortion debate in line with scientific advances of this century.

That is what I would define as a pro abortion person. Thank you for asking in such a polite manner.

Awesome! In that case, I am just pro-choice. When you find a way to make a one month old fetus viable outside the womb, please commercialize it so that we have a real alternative to abortion.

[Anonymous]

In Germany you are allowed to have an abortion but not because of a child in the womb's projected mental disability.

[Anonymous]

Thank YOU for having a polite and thoughtful adult discussion on this heartbreaking topic.

In my dream world, perhaps someday the science of fertility will advance to the point that they will be able to safely transfer an early term fetus from a pregnant person to an infertile woman, and that baby can be carried to term by someone who desparately wants and loves it. Wouldn't that be a wonderful alternative to abortion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:13:43, here is what I consider to be a pro abortion person. I used the term pro abortion because I feel this person is very different than most women who define themselves as pro choice.

A pro abortion person is one who refuses to let any of the medical and scientific advances in the realm of fetal development be part of the abortion debate or discussion. They feel that we should use 1973 knowledge to frame our 2012 debate, even though so much has changed in the past 40 years. They believe in completely unrestricted abortion on demand through the entire term of pregnancy. They believe a viable fetus is only a life if the mother wants it, even though courts have charged people (drunk drivers for example) for killing a baby in utero. They don't recognize the barbaric hippocrisy of our country saying the only difference between the value of the life of a viable fetus is whether or not a mother wants it. They are okay with a hospital not caring for a botched aborted fetus that came out alive, and are okay with an abortion occuring on a full term fetus. They support that elementary aged girls in California can be taken by a school official for an abortion without her parent's knowledge and permission, even though that same child cannot carry her epipen, inhaler, aspirin or cough drops at school and cannot get her ears pierced without permission or a tattoo with permission.

They rely on scare tactics (Such as if there are any regulations to abortion, no matter how reasonable, then women everywhere are going to be dying from botched coat hanger abortions). They rely on insults (Have you read some of the rude posts on this board? They are not from the reasonable pro-choice majority here.) And they absolutely refuse to bring the abortion debate in line with scientific advances of this century.

That is what I would define as a pro abortion person. Thank you for asking in such a polite manner.

Awesome! In that case, I am just pro-choice. When you find a way to make a one month old fetus viable outside the womb, please commercialize it so that we have a real alternative to abortion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:13:43, here is what I consider to be a pro abortion person. I used the term pro abortion because I feel this person is very different than most women who define themselves as pro choice.

A pro abortion person is one who refuses to let any of the medical and scientific advances in the realm of fetal development be part of the abortion debate or discussion. They feel that we should use 1973 knowledge to frame our 2012 debate, even though so much has changed in the past 40 years. They believe in completely unrestricted abortion on demand through the entire term of pregnancy. They believe a viable fetus is only a life if the mother wants it, even though courts have charged people (drunk drivers for example) for killing a baby in utero. They don't recognize the barbaric hippocrisy of our country saying the only difference between the value of the life of a viable fetus is whether or not a mother wants it. They are okay with a hospital not caring for a botched aborted fetus that came out alive, and are okay with an abortion occuring on a full term fetus. They support that elementary aged girls in California can be taken by a school official for an abortion without her parent's knowledge and permission, even though that same child cannot carry her epipen, inhaler, aspirin or cough drops at school and cannot get her ears pierced without permission or a tattoo with permission.

They rely on scare tactics (Such as if there are any regulations to abortion, no matter how reasonable, then women everywhere are going to be dying from botched coat hanger abortions). They rely on insults (Have you read some of the rude posts on this board? They are not from the reasonable pro-choice majority here.) And they absolutely refuse to bring the abortion debate in line with scientific advances of this century.

That is what I would define as a pro abortion person. Thank you for asking in such a polite manner.

You're welcome. However, while I don't know any people who meet your definition, let's assume for the moment that they exist. Nothing in your definition would make it accurate to call them "pro-abortion." Someone who is "pro-abortion" would be someone who tries to persuade women who want to carry their fetuses to term to change their minds and have an abortion, or who tries to force those women to have an abortion against their wishes. Maybe "zealots" would be more accurate (if not for all of your definition, then for most of it)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank YOU for having a polite and thoughtful adult discussion on this heartbreaking topic.

In my dream world, perhaps someday the science of fertility will advance to the point that they will be able to safely transfer an early term fetus from a pregnant person to an infertile woman, and that baby can be carried to term by someone who desparately wants and loves it. Wouldn't that be a wonderful alternative to abortion.

Hells yes (pro-choicer here). Why aren't we committing as much time and effort to developing this solution?