Brent, Maury & Watkins Trend-lines

[Anonymous]

There are many highly educated parents on Capitol Hill who have over extended themselves in regards to real estate. As a result, they aren't as likely to move to the suburbs for a better education.

Many of these parents have worked very, very hard to make the 3 schools mentioned in this thread better. The parents at Brent seem to have had the best results. The fact that Brent's boundaries are now all very expensive homes helps this effort.

Unfortunately the intensity and drive around the elementary schools can grow a bit tiresome. Of late, the frenzy is directed at improving middle schools.

In the meantime, the education at these three schools ranges from pretty good to just ok in the lower grades. By the testing grades an inordinate amount of time is spent doing DCBAS tests, ANET tests and then the DCCAS. At some of these schools children take six (yes 6) practice tests to ready themselves for the CAS.

The CAS is rapped, pep rallied and at one school Tshirts were distributed with the children's college graduation years on the back. Pressure much?

Some children cope well with this sort of testing. Others crumble.

In short, the test scores mostly test the income level of the parents and how much the kids have been drilled. Of course if they get drilled too much, some of the kids end up making snowflake patterns in the bubble dots.

Now how about JO Wilson and the plummeting test scores there? Nobody is chatting much about that school, which until last year had the highest test scores for a Cap Hill elementary school. Still waiting to see what the cheating investigation is going to say about erasures there.

[Anonymous]

Here is the crazy thing about all the testing. Testing has a useful purpose. It allows you to figure out how well kids are absorbing relevant information. Are your current teaching techniques working etc. Not testing is like not figuring out your sales numbers if you are in retail until the end of the year. But teachers weirdly enough have such an aversion to being self-evaluated that they don't want to see it as a method of analysis and reflection. In all fairness this is also hard because of how of how NCLB and Rhee and company have used data as punishment rather than reflection on practice. Really it is not like most of us did not have significant number of exams. I remember weekly spelling tests from 2nd grade on up and weekly math quizzes 3rd grade on up. Frankly high school and college is full of high stakes tests such as the finals and AP's. But I think making rallies is stupid because it makes it scary rather than routine.

[Anonymous]

In-class testing, quizes and such do have a use.

Standardized testing is of very limited value.

Teacher that my children have had haven't had an aversion to be evaluated. They seem to have a problem with being evaluated with the Rhee/Kamras pilot program called IMPACT. Can't say that I blame them.

I have no problem with exams and quizes. My child who attends private school has plenty of them. Funny, but the teachers at this school are able to assess children without giving a single standardized test all year long. My child who attends public school apparently needs to spend endless hours prepping for the DC-CAS.

I have a pretty good idea which child is getting the better education. I also have a handle on who is looking forward to school in the morning.

(And before I get shot down for sticking one in public and one in private, the older child is in a private middles school. Child #2 will attend this school as soon as they are of age.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are many highly educated parents on Capitol Hill who have over extended themselves in regards to real estate. As a result, they aren't as likely to move to the suburbs for a better education.

Many of these parents have worked very, very hard to make the 3 schools mentioned in this thread better. The parents at Brent seem to have had the best results. The fact that Brent's boundaries are now all very expensive homes helps this effort.

Unfortunately the intensity and drive around the elementary schools can grow a bit tiresome. Of late, the frenzy is directed at improving middle schools.

In the meantime, the education at these three schools ranges from pretty good to just ok in the lower grades. By the testing grades an inordinate amount of time is spent doing DCBAS tests, ANET tests and then the DCCAS. At some of these schools children take six (yes 6) practice tests to ready themselves for the CAS.

The CAS is rapped, pep rallied and at one school Tshirts were distributed with the children's college graduation years on the back. Pressure much?

Some children cope well with this sort of testing. Others crumble.

In short, the test scores mostly test the income level of the parents and how much the kids have been drilled. Of course if they get drilled too much, some of the kids end up making snowflake patterns in the bubble dots.

Now how about JO Wilson and the plummeting test scores there? Nobody is chatting much about that school, which until last year had the highest test scores for a Cap Hill elementary school. Still waiting to see what the cheating investigation is going to say about erasures there.

I have children in DCPS testing grades. I think the aversion to testing sounds like a good issue, and in some ways it is absolutely founded, but in general it is overplayed. The kids at our DCPS elementary do not suffer en masse from anxiety.

And I LOVE testing data - standardized test especially. I want to compare my kids to South Korea and Milwaukee. I figure my kids can suffer a week or two of big tests and a bunch of smaller ones in order for me to understand best how to micromanage and overthink their education - it is for dad's greater good.

[Anonymous]

18:49, great that DCCAS-as-curriculum works for you. You win, since it's thrust on all kids regardless. (Also cool that you can capture the plus of the children at your DCPS. You must be the school social worker?)

Kinda sucks that kids spend as much time over the course of a year on testing as they do on a special, say art or music.

Of course I'd like my kid to learn an instrument or something. It's great that you are delighted that your kids get to master the DCCAS.

I really don't want to compare my kids to anyone. I just want them to like school and, I dunno, learn to think and write. Not likely to happen in DCPs, I know...

[Anonymous]

I agree with the overtesting. In 2011-12, the testing is moving away from the DC-BAS to the PIA. PIA stands for Paced Interim Assessment. It will only cover the portions of the standards that were to have been taught in the previous 6 weeks.

Starts Oct 4-5.

Sounds like an improvement from the DC-BAS which was essentially the same test 5 or 6 times, whether or not students had been taught the material.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone seriously believe that the reason we - as a country - (and nevermind that DC scores are below the national average) are behind South Korea, Singapore, and Finland (to name a few) is because we test too much? We're too rigorous? We gather too much data?

Yeah, me neither.

[Anonymous]

Coddling parents and outliers are against data driven instruction.

It takes time to test and testing brings anxiety (mostly to parents). Sure, we'd always rather our children get more higher order learning, but we need to prioritize, and most stakeholders want data. A better assertion to make is something along the lines of:

"You know, I'd like to see fewer and more efficient tests, and I'd also like to see a longer day and more days of instruction."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Coddling parents and outliers are against data driven instruction.

It takes time to test and testing brings anxiety (mostly to parents). Sure, we'd always rather our children get more higher order learning, but we need to prioritize, and most stakeholders want data. A better assertion to make is something along the lines of:

"You know, I'd like to see fewer and more efficient tests, and I'd also like to see a longer day and more days of instruction."

There's always that. 180 days of instruction and 365 days per year. So, children spend less than half the year in school. In SE Asia, it's 220 days. Hard to believe they're kicking our asses, isn't it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Coddling parents and outliers are against data driven instruction.

It takes time to test and testing brings anxiety (mostly to parents). Sure, we'd always rather our children get more higher order learning, but we need to prioritize, and most stakeholders want data. A better assertion to make is something along the lines of:

"You know, I'd like to see fewer and more efficient tests, and I'd also like to see a longer day and more days of instruction."

This is hysterical. The schools that actually turn out children who are prepared to excel in college and life spend virtually no time in elementary school on standardized tests. They are called private or independent schools. Heard of them? One of the problems that the Brent/Maury/Watkins parents face is they are deep into debt on their homes. There are parents who have completely gutted their homes and taken fabulous vacations all while using their home as a ATM.

Sadly those actions preclude private school tuition. Whenever they get a sinking sense that they are somehow shortchanging their child, they tend to post comments like the one above.

Testing (of the repetitive standardized kind) brings anxiety to children and it's just bad educational practice. If you want to thrust it on your child, that's ok. Many of us are aware that it's a disservice to all children and we're not coddling. We just want a child who doesn't learn to hate school by third grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Coddling parents and outliers are against data driven instruction.

It takes time to test and testing brings anxiety (mostly to parents). Sure, we'd always rather our children get more higher order learning, but we need to prioritize, and most stakeholders want data. A better assertion to make is something along the lines of:

"You know, I'd like to see fewer and more efficient tests, and I'd also like to see a longer day and more days of instruction."

This is hysterical. The schools that actually turn out children who are prepared to excel in college and life spend virtually no time in elementary school on standardized tests. They are called private or independent schools. Heard of them? One of the problems that the Brent/Maury/Watkins parents face is they are deep into debt on their homes. There are parents who have completely gutted their homes and taken fabulous vacations all while using their home as a ATM.

Sadly those actions preclude private school tuition. Whenever they get a sinking sense that they are somehow shortchanging their child, they tend to post comments like the one above.

Testing (of the repetitive standardized kind) brings anxiety to children and it's just bad educational practice. If you want to thrust it on your child, that's ok. Many of us are aware that it's a disservice to all children and we're not coddling. We just want a child who doesn't learn to hate school by third grade.

Ugh. Isn't it possible that there is a successful middle ground where you're both right? It's possible to be in favor of both data driven progress measurements, and quality instruction time wherein children enjoy school. Reasonable people may disagree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Coddling parents and outliers are against data driven instruction.

It takes time to test and testing brings anxiety (mostly to parents). Sure, we'd always rather our children get more higher order learning, but we need to prioritize, and most stakeholders want data. A better assertion to make is something along the lines of:

"You know, I'd like to see fewer and more efficient tests, and I'd also like to see a longer day and more days of instruction."

This is hysterical. The schools that actually turn out children who are prepared to excel in college and life spend virtually no time in elementary school on standardized tests. They are called private or independent schools. Heard of them? One of the problems that the Brent/Maury/Watkins parents face is they are deep into debt on their homes. There are parents who have completely gutted their homes and taken fabulous vacations all while using their home as a ATM.

Sadly those actions preclude private school tuition. Whenever they get a sinking sense that they are somehow shortchanging their child, they tend to post comments like the one above.

Testing (of the repetitive standardized kind) brings anxiety to children and it's just bad educational practice. If you want to thrust it on your child, that's ok. Many of us are aware that it's a disservice to all children and we're not coddling. We just want a child who doesn't learn to hate school by third grade.

Ugh. Isn't it possible that there is a successful middle ground where you're both right? It's possible to be in favor of both data driven progress measurements, and quality instruction time wherein children enjoy school. Reasonable people may disagree.

Sounds like the OP was being reasonable when they said: "You know, I'd like to see fewer and more efficient tests, and I'd also like to see a longer day and more days of instruction."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sadly those actions preclude private school tuition. Whenever they get a sinking sense that they are somehow shortchanging their child, they tend to post comments like the one above.

If you want to go down the route of comparing private to public, then it's important to keep in mind that tests/stats are for public schools what money is for private schools, both media leading to occasional cognitive dissonance. If you pay you like to believe that what you buy must be worth something. If you've tests lined up, you like to believe they mean something. In overall scheme of things, I find tests a somewhat more reliable tool, even if I need to put a little of my spare time and higher-order insight into its thinking (and over-thinking) it. (I'm the Maury parent who may be over-thinking the general caveats as noted earlier.)
Among the many reasons I feel comfortable with our children in DC public school (in our case despite two comfortable jobs and zero-debt balance in our lives) is because I get my children's learning recorded black-on-white, with everyone - teachers, parents, students even - comparing results in a meaningful, critical, and civilized way, trying to make sense of it and going back to adjust and learn, no codling and no two ways about it. I can only speak for our ES context, but I actually don't see tests leading to students hating school. Indeed, many very much like to know where they stand and even enjoy taking tests.

(p.s. No, special ed children are not reported separately, not anyway if you look at the AYP scores used to compare schools and determine "adequate" progress.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In-class testing, quizes and such do have a use.

Standardized testing is of very limited value.

Teacher that my children have had haven't had an aversion to be evaluated. They seem to have a problem with being evaluated with the Rhee/Kamras pilot program called IMPACT. Can't say that I blame them.

I have no problem with exams and quizes. My child who attends private school has plenty of them. Funny, but the teachers at this school are able to assess children without giving a single standardized test all year long. My child who attends public school apparently needs to spend endless hours prepping for the DC-CAS.

I have a pretty good idea which child is getting the better education. I also have a handle on who is looking forward to school in the morning.

(And before I get shot down for sticking one in public and one in private, the older child is in a private middles school. Child #2 will attend this school as soon as they are of age.)

ITA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Coddling parents and outliers are against data driven instruction.

It takes time to test and testing brings anxiety (mostly to parents). Sure, we'd always rather our children get more higher order learning, but we need to prioritize, and most stakeholders want data. A better assertion to make is something along the lines of:

"You know, I'd like to see fewer and more efficient tests, and I'd also like to see a longer day and more days of instruction."

Note the buzz words - data driven instruction, higher order learning, stakeholders.

Sounds more like an administrator than a parent