Concern about friend's brothers actions - what woud you do?

[Anonymous]

This is not basic roughhousing. As the mom of 3 boys -- honestly, you would have to hold me back if I heard one of my boys was doing this. This is completely unacceptable and I agree with the previous poster --- your concern is upsetting the other mom? This is abuse, by power, size, gender -- all of the above. I can't believe your mousy little email "should I be concerned about this?" Honestly? Oh and all 3 of my boys play lax, go to a private all-boys school, did Mrs. Simpsons and have very good, respectful manners. This ought to go on the random shit that pisses me off post. Protect your daughter and stand up for the other young woman.

[Anonymous]

This is how my brother was with me, and none of my friends' parents allowed their children to come to my house. That was wise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:my concern was maybe this is sibling roughhousing?? I don't have older boys. My older bro was/is great and never scared me, but I have friends who tell me that their sibs fight like cats & dogs.

My older siblings roughhoused, but on largely equal terms. And they didn't play rough with me--we had some fights, but definitely never anything like you describe. Wrestling between equals is one thing, but if there is a power/strength differential, it seems inappropriate to me.

And I would add that they NEVER would have involved friends of mine in mean pranks of the kind you describe. My own child experienced a similar prank to a much lesser degree (being locked in somewhere), but it was with an age peer and was very, very much shorter in duration--like a minute or two, probably. It was an eye-opener for my child (realizing that people play tricks and exert power) but nothing more because it was so much more minor.

I would definitely not subject your daughter to what is not normal, acceptable behavior in my mind.

[Anonymous]

My kid would never go over there again. They bound and gagged their younger 11 year old sister? That is an abduction in Virginia, a felony. I would simply say no to any playdates over there and I would not make light of it as PPs have suggested. I would simply say no and explain that my child and Mary, your daughter, have said that the older boys are too rough for their tastes while my child is over at your house. And Mary has described behavior of theirs directed at her that I would report to the police if directed at my child. So thanks, but my child will be having any and all playdates with Mary under our supervision."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid would never go over there again. They bound and gagged their younger 11 year old sister? That is an abduction in Virginia, a felony. I would simply say no to any playdates over there and I would not make light of it as PPs have suggested. I would simply say no and explain that my child and Mary, your daughter, have said that the older boys are too rough for their tastes while my child is over at your house. And Mary has described behavior of theirs directed at her that I would report to the police if directed at my child. So thanks, but my child will be having any and all playdates with Mary under our supervision."

THIS OP. Those parents need a wake up call before something tragic happens. Those boys aren't "lovely" they just know how to act when it is in their interest to do so. Can you imagine having your daughter live in a dorm with these guys in a few years. Hugelys in the making. What kind of message is the little girl getting about her worth and her vulnerability? I think that the message needs to go to both of the parents and might be best coming from your DH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is there a dad on the scene? If not, any chance the mom is afraid of the boys herself? Are the children all her bio kids?

I'd have the girl to your house. I would not allow your DD to go there again while those older teens live in the same house. It sounds dangerous. Also sounds like it is escalating.

Is this post for real? What does your DH say? If my DH heard that someone locked one of our kids in a storage room for an hour on a playdate, he'd be at their house.

If this is real, I'd probably mention it to the counselor at school so she can keep any eye on the girl. With what you are describing I would not be surprised if there is sexual abuse going on or there will be soon. I had brothers growing up, as did many friends. Some played pranks, none were violent or sadistic. Something is going on with those kids. If the mom asked why the DD can't come over, I'd say that she is afraid of the brothers and that you are not comfortable with her being there.

This. I would also be concerned about sexual abuse. I have known a few people that have been sexually abused by older brothers/cousins of their friends.

[Anonymous]

I'm still thinking troll.

If you knew a little girl who was being terrorized, hit, physically overpowered, being tied up, gagged and stuffed in a closet or locked in a room by relatives, would you really be so reticent or concerned with the nice seeming dad and brothers? If you are real OP, ever hear of Ted Bundy? And if someone ever locked my child in a room I'd be on the phone to the police. That you claim that she screams for help to her mom and that they are breaking in locks but that the mom does not come to her aid is beyond disturbing if it is really happening.

If you are real, I'd forget the parents and involve the authorities, or at least give a report to the school counselor.

That OP seems to dance and minimize suggests stirring the pot to me.

[Anonymous]

It is actually VERY common for people in the OP's situation to feel uncomfortable about confronting anyone about the behavior. Any post could be a troll post, but simply b/c OP is reticent to take a stand is not at all uncommon. Her experience with these boys is MUCH different than what her daughter and the other girl report. It is hard to reconcile the two. No one wants to make an accusation if the allegations are false so people hang back until it is too late to accomplish anything or their own child is the one bound, gagged, God knows what and then they come forward. And if the OP is one with a boy and a girl who, like many women, favor their son and think that they don't, she is half in the bag of disbelieving her girl and the other one because they are girls and girls, as you mothers of boys like to say, are overly dramatic, way too sensitive, and prone to exaggeration. So yet another reason to hang back and wait for "proof."

[Anonymous]

OP, do you believe your DD when she says that she saw the girl hit and that they were locked in a storage room for a long period of time? What would she gain by making that up?

If the girl was 14 and the perpetrator was her boyfriend, what would you do? What would you do, same family if the husband treated his wife so abusively?

What did you say to your DD when she mentioned the breaking down the door? Assuming all of this is true, how must that girl feel to call for help and have no one come in real life or when you reach out on the phone?

This is all crazy and disturbing. What does your DH have to say about all of this? Have you allowed your DD to go there again? How have you handled invites? Have you had the little friend over since all of this came to your attention? How does she seem?

You may be the only source of help for that girl. I don't think going to the parents is likely to help, how could the mom be home and have her DD screaming for help and have no idea what is going on. You are also serving as a powerful model to your DD on how women and girls should be treated and what people do when they find out about abuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would be honest with the mom since you say you know her and tell her that you want playdates at your house for the time being. Be casual, "well, I know your boys like to play pranks, but DD did not like getting locked in the closet and to be honest, I agree with her. If that's how the boys are going to act, then I would rather have the girls over here where they can play without worry."

It acknowledges your concerns about what you consider appropriate behaviot, ensures that you have stood up for your daughter with the responsible adult in the family and gives the friend a chance to get out of the house.

And yes, if my DH had heard this, he would be over there talking to the parents and the boys. This deserves to be remarked upon.

I agree wholeheartedly. If it's easier, focus on your child's reaction. "Mary gets really upset when she sees Jack and Tom hitting Sue in the face but this last thing really got her upset." I really like the line "but DD did not like getting locked in the closet and to be honest, I agree with her" Keep the ball in your court with your feelings so it doesn't sound accusing (even if it is)

And absolutely try to have this girl over as much as possible. SHe needs a safe place and as many people around her to take her seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there a dad on the scene? If not, any chance the mom is afraid of the boys herself? Are the children all her bio kids?

I'd have the girl to your house. I would not allow your DD to go there again while those older teens live in the same house. It sounds dangerous. Also sounds like it is escalating.

Is this post for real? What does your DH say? If my DH heard that someone locked one of our kids in a storage room for an hour on a playdate, he'd be at their house.

If this is real, I'd probably mention it to the counselor at school so she can keep any eye on the girl. With what you are describing I would not be surprised if there is sexual abuse going on or there will be soon. I had brothers growing up, as did many friends. Some played pranks, none were violent or sadistic. Something is going on with those kids. If the mom asked why the DD can't come over, I'd say that she is afraid of the brothers and that you are not comfortable with her being there.

This. I would also be concerned about sexual abuse. I have known a few people that have been sexually abused by older brothers/cousins of their friends.

Yep. You are describing my childhood with older brothers. Violence and abuse. It took a long time and lots of counseling to get over it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yep. You are describing my childhood with older brothers. Violence and abuse. It took a long time and lots of counseling to get over it.

How did you cope with the fact that your parents didn't protect you? Did they know? Did others? What are your brothers like now? Do you have any relationship with them? Why was the behavior allowed to continue?

[Anonymous]

I know many of my friends had older brothers roughed up and 'tortured' younger siblings. Mine sure did. I could easily see my brother locking me in a closet. My brother was also physically aggressive towards me when he was mad - he had a short temper, was immature and had too much testosterone in his body. He was never sexually aggressive in any way. My parents never knew about it at all (until recently). I would never have said anything - sibling code of silence - you don't tell on me and I won't tell on you. My brother grew up to be a very non violent person - and has never been aggressive towards his wife and kids or anyone else.

I fully support the ideas mentioned to approach the parents and make sure mom knows what is going on and that it is making your child uncomfortable. Also having the girls play at your house sounds like a good plan and letting the bff know she can tell you if her brothers are bothering / hurting her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yep. You are describing my childhood with older brothers. Violence and abuse. It took a long time and lots of counseling to get over it.

How did you cope with the fact that your parents didn't protect you? Did they know? Did others? What are your brothers like now? Do you have any relationship with them? Why was the behavior allowed to continue?

I didn't cope with the fact that my parents didn't protect me -- hence, the years of therapy. I have no idea if they knew. They are big into denial, but I like to think if they knew they would have stopped it. I have strained relationships with my brothers.

[Anonymous]

Are your brothers abusive in their own families now?