Stay at TT or Retire to Suburbs

[Anonymous]

I have not been happy with my kid's education at a TT. I think these schools are way overrated and hit or miss. They don't do differentiation, and the math is not great at a lot of them. We stay because we like the city, but if you don't, I don't think these schools are worth staying. Parental involvement and a happy life are worth far more than whatever slight educational advantage the might or might not provide. FWIW, both my husband and I went to big name Ivies, did well and didn't feel all that different from the kids who went to these schools. I went to a private school in middle America, and he went to a totally average high school in the middle of the country. He graduated summa, me magna without much effort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have not been happy with my kid's education at a TT. I think these schools are way overrated and hit or miss. They don't do differentiation, and the math is not great at a lot of them. We stay because we like the city, but if you don't, I don't think these schools are worth staying. Parental involvement and a happy life are worth far more than whatever slight educational advantage the might or might not provide. FWIW, both my husband and I went to big name Ivies, did well and didn't feel all that different from the kids who went to these schools. I went to a private school in middle America, and he went to a totally average high school in the middle of the country. He graduated summa, me magna without much effort.

Thank so much for the honest reply. Would you mind sharing if your kids are still in Lower School or are they in Middle or High School? We've not been happy either and know many other families who think their kid is not learning anything, particularly in math. We've heard that things pick up significantly in Middle and High School but from such a low base we're not even sure if we'd be happy with the pace even once that kicks in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I found the reliance on APs in the suburbs to differentiate students depressing. You need as many as possible to load up on your transcript to be looked at by top colleges. If you're a top student at a TT, you will take APs, sure, but it's not the sole way your college counselor will be able to sell you. It's honestly the same at a lot of T2 and T3 NYC schools. If that's the bar, it can make a boring class curriculum.

Some suburbs have IB. IB can be more intellectual. It aims to be.

There's always boarding prep school if the TT is missed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not been happy with my kid's education at a TT. I think these schools are way overrated and hit or miss. They don't do differentiation, and the math is not great at a lot of them. We stay because we like the city, but if you don't, I don't think these schools are worth staying. Parental involvement and a happy life are worth far more than whatever slight educational advantage the might or might not provide. FWIW, both my husband and I went to big name Ivies, did well and didn't feel all that different from the kids who went to these schools. I went to a private school in middle America, and he went to a totally average high school in the middle of the country. He graduated summa, me magna without much effort.

Thank so much for the honest reply. Would you mind sharing if your kids are still in Lower School or are they in Middle or High School? We've not been happy either and know many other families who think their kid is not learning anything, particularly in math. We've heard that things pick up significantly in Middle and High School but from such a low base we're not even sure if we'd be happy with the pace even once that kicks in.

Not PP but my kid switched from a 2T private middle school to a public one and the public math was both more difficult and much more differentiated; honors and non-honors math at the private school were basically the same material, the honors kids just were expected to pick it up a bit faster and so had a bit more time built in for enrichment, whereas in public there's a whole separate honors track and the honors kids are studying material in 8th grade that the non-honors kids would study in 9th. (some publics even got a year beyond that, we just weren't lucky enough to get into one)

FWICT from when we were shopping for other private schools, this seems to be a pretty typical approach in most of them, I suspect in order to keep parents happy - your kid might never make it to the honors track, but you don't want them to ever be in a position where they've fallen too far behind and could only get up to it if they took a year's worth of intense math over the summer, so you keep everybody studying blankety blank and it's just that some kids are in blankety blank honors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not been happy with my kid's education at a TT. I think these schools are way overrated and hit or miss. They don't do differentiation, and the math is not great at a lot of them. We stay because we like the city, but if you don't, I don't think these schools are worth staying. Parental involvement and a happy life are worth far more than whatever slight educational advantage the might or might not provide. FWIW, both my husband and I went to big name Ivies, did well and didn't feel all that different from the kids who went to these schools. I went to a private school in middle America, and he went to a totally average high school in the middle of the country. He graduated summa, me magna without much effort.

Thank so much for the honest reply. Would you mind sharing if your kids are still in Lower School or are they in Middle or High School? We've not been happy either and know many other families who think their kid is not learning anything, particularly in math. We've heard that things pick up significantly in Middle and High School but from such a low base we're not even sure if we'd be happy with the pace even once that kicks in.

Not PP but my kid switched from a 2T private middle school to a public one and the public math was both more difficult and much more differentiated; honors and non-honors math at the private school were basically the same material, the honors kids just were expected to pick it up a bit faster and so had a bit more time built in for enrichment, whereas in public there's a whole separate honors track and the honors kids are studying material in 8th grade that the non-honors kids would study in 9th. (some publics even got a year beyond that, we just weren't lucky enough to get into one)

FWICT from when we were shopping for other private schools, this seems to be a pretty typical approach in most of them, I suspect in order to keep parents happy - your kid might never make it to the honors track, but you don't want them to ever be in a position where they've fallen too far behind and could only get up to it if they took a year's worth of intense math over the summer, so you keep everybody studying blankety blank and it's just that some kids are in blankety blank honors.

Honest question, what is the 2T math curriculum you experienced? My DC's private middle school "accelerated" is Algebra in 7th and Geometry in 8th, and all of the 2T high schools we applied to seemed to have a track in 9th grade to accommodate this. I found very few public middle schools who did this, but if we'd gone the public schools route (not SHS), we might have found a way to take the Regents and then found out if the public high school could accommodate this (although very few seemed to offer Calc BC outside of the very STEM heavy schools and SHS).

[Anonymous]

I have two in lower at two different SS schools. The girls one does boilerplate Singapore math and it’s slow and wastes a lot of time. Almost everyone in my daughter’s classes uses Kumon or does Russian Math which sucks up yet more of their time and is kind of ridiculous given the amount of tuition we pay for them to teach math in the first place. The books are fine, but I read much more interesting books at their age in school. A lot of it is pretty tepid and not very thought provoking. Some of the kids are brilliant, but most are just okay and a lot aren’t all that academic, mainly into achieving because they are tracked to. It’s fine, I guess, but overhyped. It’s not worth sacrificing the life you want to live for.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not been happy with my kid's education at a TT. I think these schools are way overrated and hit or miss. They don't do differentiation, and the math is not great at a lot of them. We stay because we like the city, but if you don't, I don't think these schools are worth staying. Parental involvement and a happy life are worth far more than whatever slight educational advantage the might or might not provide. FWIW, both my husband and I went to big name Ivies, did well and didn't feel all that different from the kids who went to these schools. I went to a private school in middle America, and he went to a totally average high school in the middle of the country. He graduated summa, me magna without much effort.

Thank so much for the honest reply. Would you mind sharing if your kids are still in Lower School or are they in Middle or High School? We've not been happy either and know many other families who think their kid is not learning anything, particularly in math. We've heard that things pick up significantly in Middle and High School but from such a low base we're not even sure if we'd be happy with the pace even once that kicks in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not been happy with my kid's education at a TT. I think these schools are way overrated and hit or miss. They don't do differentiation, and the math is not great at a lot of them. We stay because we like the city, but if you don't, I don't think these schools are worth staying. Parental involvement and a happy life are worth far more than whatever slight educational advantage the might or might not provide. FWIW, both my husband and I went to big name Ivies, did well and didn't feel all that different from the kids who went to these schools. I went to a private school in middle America, and he went to a totally average high school in the middle of the country. He graduated summa, me magna without much effort.

Thank so much for the honest reply. Would you mind sharing if your kids are still in Lower School or are they in Middle or High School? We've not been happy either and know many other families who think their kid is not learning anything, particularly in math. We've heard that things pick up significantly in Middle and High School but from such a low base we're not even sure if we'd be happy with the pace even once that kicks in.

Not PP but my kid switched from a 2T private middle school to a public one and the public math was both more difficult and much more differentiated; honors and non-honors math at the private school were basically the same material, the honors kids just were expected to pick it up a bit faster and so had a bit more time built in for enrichment, whereas in public there's a whole separate honors track and the honors kids are studying material in 8th grade that the non-honors kids would study in 9th. (some publics even got a year beyond that, we just weren't lucky enough to get into one)

FWICT from when we were shopping for other private schools, this seems to be a pretty typical approach in most of them, I suspect in order to keep parents happy - your kid might never make it to the honors track, but you don't want them to ever be in a position where they've fallen too far behind and could only get up to it if they took a year's worth of intense math over the summer, so you keep everybody studying blankety blank and it's just that some kids are in blankety blank honors.

Honest question, what is the 2T math curriculum you experienced? My DC's private middle school "accelerated" is Algebra in 7th and Geometry in 8th, and all of the 2T high schools we applied to seemed to have a track in 9th grade to accommodate this. I found very few public middle schools who did this, but if we'd gone the public schools route (not SHS), we might have found a way to take the Regents and then found out if the public high school could accommodate this (although very few seemed to offer Calc BC outside of the very STEM heavy schools and SHS).

It was the school's own curriculum - there wasn't a standard textbook - but I think in 8th grade they covered about half of Algebra I. I know that the list of books they assigned for summer math enrichment used the non-accelerated, non-Pre-Algebra book before 8th grade. So not even keeping up with the standard public school honors pace of 8th grade Regents Algebra.

7th grade Algebra and 8th grade Geometry is pretty rare - a few city public schools (like Lab Middle, IIRC) offer it, and I think a few suburbs like Scarsdale too, but not even very many private schools do; top of my head the only two I can think of are Speyer and HM (and I don't get the impression that many kids at HM do it). Most TT schools seem to have "Algebra I Honors" for 8th graders that consists of Algebra I and maybe a little early Algebra II material.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not been happy with my kid's education at a TT. I think these schools are way overrated and hit or miss. They don't do differentiation, and the math is not great at a lot of them. We stay because we like the city, but if you don't, I don't think these schools are worth staying. Parental involvement and a happy life are worth far more than whatever slight educational advantage the might or might not provide. FWIW, both my husband and I went to big name Ivies, did well and didn't feel all that different from the kids who went to these schools. I went to a private school in middle America, and he went to a totally average high school in the middle of the country. He graduated summa, me magna without much effort.

Thank so much for the honest reply. Would you mind sharing if your kids are still in Lower School or are they in Middle or High School? We've not been happy either and know many other families who think their kid is not learning anything, particularly in math. We've heard that things pick up significantly in Middle and High School but from such a low base we're not even sure if we'd be happy with the pace even once that kicks in.

Not PP but my kid switched from a 2T private middle school to a public one and the public math was both more difficult and much more differentiated; honors and non-honors math at the private school were basically the same material, the honors kids just were expected to pick it up a bit faster and so had a bit more time built in for enrichment, whereas in public there's a whole separate honors track and the honors kids are studying material in 8th grade that the non-honors kids would study in 9th. (some publics even got a year beyond that, we just weren't lucky enough to get into one)

FWICT from when we were shopping for other private schools, this seems to be a pretty typical approach in most of them, I suspect in order to keep parents happy - your kid might never make it to the honors track, but you don't want them to ever be in a position where they've fallen too far behind and could only get up to it if they took a year's worth of intense math over the summer, so you keep everybody studying blankety blank and it's just that some kids are in blankety blank honors.

Honest question, what is the 2T math curriculum you experienced? My DC's private middle school "accelerated" is Algebra in 7th and Geometry in 8th, and all of the 2T high schools we applied to seemed to have a track in 9th grade to accommodate this. I found very few public middle schools who did this, but if we'd gone the public schools route (not SHS), we might have found a way to take the Regents and then found out if the public high school could accommodate this (although very few seemed to offer Calc BC outside of the very STEM heavy schools and SHS).

It was the school's own curriculum - there wasn't a standard textbook - but I think in 8th grade they covered about half of Algebra I. I know that the list of books they assigned for summer math enrichment used the non-accelerated, non-Pre-Algebra book before 8th grade. So not even keeping up with the standard public school honors pace of 8th grade Regents Algebra.

7th grade Algebra and 8th grade Geometry is pretty rare - a few city public schools (like Lab Middle, IIRC) offer it, and I think a few suburbs like Scarsdale too, but not even very many private schools do; top of my head the only two I can think of are Speyer and HM (and I don't get the impression that many kids at HM do it). Most TT schools seem to have "Algebra I Honors" for 8th graders that consists of Algebra I and maybe a little early Algebra II material.

This is correct. There are some schools that will let a kid work ahead a little bit (I know a public middle school that lets some kids double up on math in 8th and also take geometry) but it is pretty rare. At my kid's 2T HS there are a few kids who are ahead in math - I think at least one went to Speyer. Obviously some kids in HS take it upon themselves to find ways to accelerate, whether it is summer classes or whatever else.

This is why I find it insufferable when I read the other DCUM boards with the parents from DMV who think their little snowflakes are the greatest because they are taking calculus in 10th grade or something similar. NYC kids do just fine without being super accelerated. And, more importantly, counter to what they believe, their kids are no smarter than NYC kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is why I find it insufferable when I read the other DCUM boards with the parents from DMV who think their little snowflakes are the greatest because they are taking calculus in 10th grade or something similar. NYC kids do just fine without being super accelerated. And, more importantly, counter to what they believe, their kids are no smarter than NYC kids.

The other end of this is that there are only a handful of high schools anywhere in the city that offer anything beyond BC Calculus - usually something in the multivariate calculus / differential equations / linear algebra vein - and even if your school does, since it's not standardized, it doesn't produce any big obvious college test score and it's unlikely to line up neatly with your college's math curriculum like BC Calculus does. So the benefits to finishing your school's math curriculum a year early are iffy at best.

(I was skipped a year in math, took BC in 11th and ended up spending a year abroad in 12th and not taking math at all, which was good because there wasn't any math left for me if I'd stayed - the most they could offer was having a math teacher spend 20 minutes a week with me to answer questions / assign me work in some college textbook)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why I find it insufferable when I read the other DCUM boards with the parents from DMV who think their little snowflakes are the greatest because they are taking calculus in 10th grade or something similar. NYC kids do just fine without being super accelerated. And, more importantly, counter to what they believe, their kids are no smarter than NYC kids.

The other end of this is that there are only a handful of high schools anywhere in the city that offer anything beyond BC Calculus - usually something in the multivariate calculus / differential equations / linear algebra vein - and even if your school does, since it's not standardized, it doesn't produce any big obvious college test score and it's unlikely to line up neatly with your college's math curriculum like BC Calculus does. So the benefits to finishing your school's math curriculum a year early are iffy at best.

(I was skipped a year in math, took BC in 11th and ended up spending a year abroad in 12th and not taking math at all, which was good because there wasn't any math left for me if I'd stayed - the most they could offer was having a math teacher spend 20 minutes a week with me to answer questions / assign me work in some college textbook)

I did something similar in suburbia many years ago when it was not common (not bragging - I'm nothing special). Senior year I did some odds and ends non-traditional math but not a next step. Then I didn't take math my freshman year of college. So when I took multi-variable fall of sophomore year it was not pretty as I was very rusty.

To your point, I do not think that at the schools where advanced math is offered the teachers are very qualified. It is likely helpful to be exposed to it, but I would likely want to retake them in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not been happy with my kid's education at a TT. I think these schools are way overrated and hit or miss. They don't do differentiation, and the math is not great at a lot of them. We stay because we like the city, but if you don't, I don't think these schools are worth staying. Parental involvement and a happy life are worth far more than whatever slight educational advantage the might or might not provide. FWIW, both my husband and I went to big name Ivies, did well and didn't feel all that different from the kids who went to these schools. I went to a private school in middle America, and he went to a totally average high school in the middle of the country. He graduated summa, me magna without much effort.

Thank so much for the honest reply. Would you mind sharing if your kids are still in Lower School or are they in Middle or High School? We've not been happy either and know many other families who think their kid is not learning anything, particularly in math. We've heard that things pick up significantly in Middle and High School but from such a low base we're not even sure if we'd be happy with the pace even once that kicks in.

Not PP but my kid switched from a 2T private middle school to a public one and the public math was both more difficult and much more differentiated; honors and non-honors math at the private school were basically the same material, the honors kids just were expected to pick it up a bit faster and so had a bit more time built in for enrichment, whereas in public there's a whole separate honors track and the honors kids are studying material in 8th grade that the non-honors kids would study in 9th. (some publics even got a year beyond that, we just weren't lucky enough to get into one)

FWICT from when we were shopping for other private schools, this seems to be a pretty typical approach in most of them, I suspect in order to keep parents happy - your kid might never make it to the honors track, but you don't want them to ever be in a position where they've fallen too far behind and could only get up to it if they took a year's worth of intense math over the summer, so you keep everybody studying blankety blank and it's just that some kids are in blankety blank honors.

Honest question, what is the 2T math curriculum you experienced? My DC's private middle school "accelerated" is Algebra in 7th and Geometry in 8th, and all of the 2T high schools we applied to seemed to have a track in 9th grade to accommodate this. I found very few public middle schools who did this, but if we'd gone the public schools route (not SHS), we might have found a way to take the Regents and then found out if the public high school could accommodate this (although very few seemed to offer Calc BC outside of the very STEM heavy schools and SHS).

It was the school's own curriculum - there wasn't a standard textbook - but I think in 8th grade they covered about half of Algebra I. I know that the list of books they assigned for summer math enrichment used the non-accelerated, non-Pre-Algebra book before 8th grade. So not even keeping up with the standard public school honors pace of 8th grade Regents Algebra.

7th grade Algebra and 8th grade Geometry is pretty rare - a few city public schools (like Lab Middle, IIRC) offer it, and I think a few suburbs like Scarsdale too, but not even very many private schools do; top of my head the only two I can think of are Speyer and HM (and I don't get the impression that many kids at HM do it). Most TT schools seem to have "Algebra I Honors" for 8th graders that consists of Algebra I and maybe a little early Algebra II material.

This is correct. There are some schools that will let a kid work ahead a little bit (I know a public middle school that lets some kids double up on math in 8th and also take geometry) but it is pretty rare. At my kid's 2T HS there are a few kids who are ahead in math - I think at least one went to Speyer. Obviously some kids in HS take it upon themselves to find ways to accelerate, whether it is summer classes or whatever else.

This is why I find it insufferable when I read the other DCUM boards with the parents from DMV who think their little snowflakes are the greatest because they are taking calculus in 10th grade or something similar. NYC kids do just fine without being super accelerated. And, more importantly, counter to what they believe, their kids are no smarter than NYC kids.

I asked about the curriculum because I didn't realize how accelerated the math at my DC's K-8 school is until recently...I thought it was normal. The "regular" math section is Algebra. Funny enough my complaint to the school (not Speyer or HM) was literally "what's the rush," because I don't think it's necessary to speed through the fundamentals and I was concerned with high school math sequences after. My kid is a solid math student, but by no means a math genius, and if I'd realized how accelerated the honors math was, I would probably have argued against it. It has been a ton of work and not seemingly necessary if I had done my research. Oh well.

[Anonymous]

Seems to me the entire point of TT is for status and networking. It goes along with the country house, classic six and charity events.

It’s debatable whether the education is better than a suburban public and probably not. Your kid is simply more likely to befriend someone whose parent is a billionaire and travels via PJ.

One issue I see is that kids at NYC privates don’t have PT jobs. A PT job is instrumental in teaching life skills. It’s a humbling experience and important. Given AI, I’m more focused on my kids learning life skills than some elite resume.

FWIW I attended a selective private and then a public HS. I didn’t think either was really better just different. The public had more diverse makeup. Not racial but socioeconomic and the kids were meaner. Better athletics and math. At the private I was constantly told how special I was and a lot of brainwashing about public schools and how terrible they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seems to me the entire point of TT is for status and networking. It goes along with the country house, classic six and charity events.

It’s debatable whether the education is better than a suburban public and probably not. Your kid is simply more likely to befriend someone whose parent is a billionaire and travels via PJ.

One issue I see is that kids at NYC privates don’t have PT jobs. A PT job is instrumental in teaching life skills. It’s a humbling experience and important. Given AI, I’m more focused on my kids learning life skills than some elite resume.

FWIW I attended a selective private and then a public HS. I didn’t think either was really better just different. The public had more diverse makeup. Not racial but socioeconomic and the kids were meaner. Better athletics and math. At the private I was constantly told how special I was and a lot of brainwashing about public schools and how terrible they are.

Classic 6? That's comical. TT families want to have three kids as a status symbol so need more space than that! Having three kids in NYC is a way to show that you are rich enough to afford three kids in NYC, which is not easy (it's not easy in suburbia, but the marginal cost of more space for a third kid there is a lot less).

Some kids in NYC privates have a proxy for a PT job through volunteer work. But to your point, for the vast majority, the volunteer work is performative and checking a box, and not a meaningful experience. Because I greatly agree with you about the importance of this. Some kids do meaningful, roll-up-your-sleeves activities in the summer, but again, for many of them it is not really meaningful and is more about the college application and curated by an advisor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One issue I see is that kids at NYC privates don’t have PT jobs. A PT job is instrumental in teaching life skills. It’s a humbling experience and important. Given AI, I’m more focused on my kids learning life skills than some elite resume.

I think the real difference-maker in the AI era is going to be having a breadth of skills rather than a narrow focus; narrow, specialized jobs are the ones that are most at risk of being replaced by AI. This is actually compatible with a private or a public education, it's more that your kid should try to focus on a lot of different subjects - not just go all in on being a math nerd or whatever - and pair that with a wide array of extracurriculars (and ideally the majority of them not sports - nothing against sports, but they shouldn't take over your life to the point where you can't also pursue other things).

[Anonymous]

Math, like music or a language, is best taught as quickly as possible as fast as possible. True quants think the math at most of these private schools is absolute bullshit and enroll their kids in Russian math. I thought it was achievement culture that they did this, but it’s truly not. They want their kids taught math in a way that works and encourage individual skills. These private schools don’t do differential learning until way too late to cultivate longterm talent.
There is so much educational research from other counties and other states on how the way we now teach math doesn’t lead to longterm success. Singapore has great math scores, but the Singapore math they teach in these schools is sold by one corporation. Its research backs its curriculum but it’s like edtech — it’s not vetted by an outside agency. Speyer and it sounds like Horace Mann are the only two I know that seem to know how to teach math to accelerated learners. All people at these schools use to judge the quality of their kid’s education is exmissions to HYP.