MAP R & MAP P score to get into MS magnet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are in a low-farms school, the scores needed to get into the lottery typically score are in the 92%-93% range. There are circumstances in which they also allow students with lower scores, like 78%+, into the lottery. My point is, it's a fairly large pool, and the odds are not great, even if you are the top math or English student in the county, that doesn't matter. It's a lottery.

Yup. I would assume you will not get in and proceed accordingly. If you get a spot it will be a nice surprise. My kid had the highest MAP score their math teacher had ever seen, so they got into the pool but they didn’t get a spot. The magnet system is very frustrating. I actually don’t know anyone from our school who got a spot, though someone must have

Yep, scores don't matter for the lottery, but they did matter for HS programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honest question as a fellow 4th grade parent — will these programs exist when our kids are trying for them next year? We’re currently in a CES and it’s been such a wonderful experience we really hope to get into the MS programs…

By the scores here my kid should qualify, so it’s a matter of the lottery and whether this will actually exist….

The CES kids are evaluated as part of the cohort from their CES elementary not their home elementary. They’re not going to take 10-15 kids from the same ES in the MS magnet programs. At least, my kid who went to CES did not get offered a MS magnet option. My less academically inclined but still solid student who did not get into or go to CES got offered MS magnet seats in the summer out of the wait pool. We declined. All of the CES kids from my non-CES kid’s grade in our neighborhood ES came back for MS and did not go to MS magnet.

Because they are no longer application programs I think there are a lot more first round admittees who decline. At least a couple years ago there seemed to be a lot of wait pool movement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honest question as a fellow 4th grade parent — will these programs exist when our kids are trying for them next year? We’re currently in a CES and it’s been such a wonderful experience we really hope to get into the MS programs…

By the scores here my kid should qualify, so it’s a matter of the lottery and whether this will actually exist….

IMO the biggest risk isn't the regional program model-- it's the changes MCPS has to make to middle school schedules in 2027-2028 because of the state mandate for 60 minutes a day of math, which likely means one less elective period. Not sure if they will cut the magnets as a result, or if they will keep them but there'll be lower interest because magnet kids probably won't be able to take elective classes besides the magnet elective (but I suppose if that doesn't matter to you, that might increase your chances of getting in because more families will decline?)

[Anonymous]

MAP-P is only grades K-2. It's MAP-M above that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question as a fellow 4th grade parent — will these programs exist when our kids are trying for them next year? We’re currently in a CES and it’s been such a wonderful experience we really hope to get into the MS programs…

By the scores here my kid should qualify, so it’s a matter of the lottery and whether this will actually exist….

The CES kids are evaluated as part of the cohort from their CES elementary not their home elementary. They’re not going to take 10-15 kids from the same ES in the MS magnet programs. At least, my kid who went to CES did not get offered a MS magnet option. My less academically inclined but still solid student who did not get into or go to CES got offered MS magnet seats in the summer out of the wait pool. We declined. All of the CES kids from my non-CES kid’s grade in our neighborhood ES came back for MS and did not go to MS magnet.

Because they are no longer application programs I think there are a lot more first round admittees who decline. At least a couple years ago there seemed to be a lot of wait pool movement.

There are a bunch of incorrect things in the first paragraph here. The middle school magnet admission process does not artificially limit the number of kids coming from a specific elementary school. Placement in the lottery is solely based on grades and locally normed MAP scores (which are different based on the FARMS level of the elementary school - and the zoned elementary school is used, not the CES elementary, if different). Once a student is placed in either or both lotteries, selection is just that - a lottery. Note that for TMPS, some seats are reserved for students who are in boundary for TPMS; not sure if Eastern works the same way.

FWIW, I can think of at least 10 students from my kid's CES elementary who are in one of the two magnet middle school programs (and likely more that I don't know, and more still who got in the pool but did not get an offer or declined an offer). So it's possible and in fact highly probable that a good portion of students in 5th grade CES will make one or both lotteries (especially when you consider they needed a minimum normed MAP-R score to be in CES in the first place - and scores vary year to year but not by that much).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are in a low-farms school, the scores needed to get into the lottery typically score are in the 92%-93% range. There are circumstances in which they also allow students with lower scores, like 78%+, into the lottery. My point is, it's a fairly large pool, and the odds are not great, even if you are the top math or English student in the county, that doesn't matter. It's a lottery.

Yup. I would assume you will not get in and proceed accordingly. If you get a spot it will be a nice surprise. My kid had the highest MAP score their math teacher had ever seen, so they got into the pool but they didn’t get a spot. The magnet system is very frustrating. I actually don’t know anyone from our school who got a spot, though someone must have

At least if your kid had a very high MAP-M score, they have options for enrichment in MS - e.g., Algebra 1 in 6th, math team. I don't think there's any enrichment for high MAP-R scorers; they get the same crappy "Advanced English" that is not advanced. Maybe those classes are cohorted at least? Just another example of MCPS not valuing humanities, but don't get me started.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are in a low-farms school, the scores needed to get into the lottery typically score are in the 92%-93% range. There are circumstances in which they also allow students with lower scores, like 78%+, into the lottery. My point is, it's a fairly large pool, and the odds are not great, even if you are the top math or English student in the county, that doesn't matter. It's a lottery.

Yup. I would assume you will not get in and proceed accordingly. If you get a spot it will be a nice surprise. My kid had the highest MAP score their math teacher had ever seen, so they got into the pool but they didn’t get a spot. The magnet system is very frustrating. I actually don’t know anyone from our school who got a spot, though someone must have

At least if your kid had a very high MAP-M score, they have options for enrichment in MS - e.g., Algebra 1 in 6th, math team. I don't think there's any enrichment for high MAP-R scorers; they get the same crappy "Advanced English" that is not advanced. Maybe those classes are cohorted at least? Just another example of MCPS not valuing humanities, but don't get me started.....

The social studies class is supposed to be the enriched one for the high MAP-R scorers. A few schools offer it (HIGH) to everyone but it must be offered to kids in the lottery pool, and most schools do have a separate on-level social studies class for the other kids because HIGH has more reading and writing than the regular social studies classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question as a fellow 4th grade parent — will these programs exist when our kids are trying for them next year? We’re currently in a CES and it’s been such a wonderful experience we really hope to get into the MS programs…

By the scores here my kid should qualify, so it’s a matter of the lottery and whether this will actually exist….

The CES kids are evaluated as part of the cohort from their CES elementary not their home elementary. They’re not going to take 10-15 kids from the same ES in the MS magnet programs. At least, my kid who went to CES did not get offered a MS magnet option. My less academically inclined but still solid student who did not get into or go to CES got offered MS magnet seats in the summer out of the wait pool. We declined. All of the CES kids from my non-CES kid’s grade in our neighborhood ES came back for MS and did not go to MS magnet.

Because they are no longer application programs I think there are a lot more first round admittees who decline. At least a couple years ago there seemed to be a lot of wait pool movement.

There are a bunch of incorrect things in the first paragraph here. The middle school magnet admission process does not artificially limit the number of kids coming from a specific elementary school. Placement in the lottery is solely based on grades and locally normed MAP scores (which are different based on the FARMS level of the elementary school - and the zoned elementary school is used, not the CES elementary, if different). Once a student is placed in either or both lotteries, selection is just that - a lottery. Note that for TMPS, some seats are reserved for students who are in boundary for TPMS; not sure if Eastern works the same way.

FWIW, I can think of at least 10 students from my kid's CES elementary who are in one of the two magnet middle school programs (and likely more that I don't know, and more still who got in the pool but did not get an offer or declined an offer). So it's possible and in fact highly probable that a good portion of students in 5th grade CES will make one or both lotteries (especially when you consider they needed a minimum normed MAP-R score to be in CES in the first place - and scores vary year to year but not by that much).

Thank you for clarifying this!

It seems so backwards that kids get 2 fabulous years in magnet and then back to nothing. Who knows what the district will do about any of these magnet programs going forward...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question as a fellow 4th grade parent — will these programs exist when our kids are trying for them next year? We’re currently in a CES and it’s been such a wonderful experience we really hope to get into the MS programs…

By the scores here my kid should qualify, so it’s a matter of the lottery and whether this will actually exist….

The CES kids are evaluated as part of the cohort from their CES elementary not their home elementary. They’re not going to take 10-15 kids from the same ES in the MS magnet programs. At least, my kid who went to CES did not get offered a MS magnet option. My less academically inclined but still solid student who did not get into or go to CES got offered MS magnet seats in the summer out of the wait pool. We declined. All of the CES kids from my non-CES kid’s grade in our neighborhood ES came back for MS and did not go to MS magnet.

Because they are no longer application programs I think there are a lot more first round admittees who decline. At least a couple years ago there seemed to be a lot of wait pool movement.

There are a bunch of incorrect things in the first paragraph here. The middle school magnet admission process does not artificially limit the number of kids coming from a specific elementary school. Placement in the lottery is solely based on grades and locally normed MAP scores (which are different based on the FARMS level of the elementary school - and the zoned elementary school is used, not the CES elementary, if different). Once a student is placed in either or both lotteries, selection is just that - a lottery. Note that for TMPS, some seats are reserved for students who are in boundary for TPMS; not sure if Eastern works the same way.

FWIW, I can think of at least 10 students from my kid's CES elementary who are in one of the two magnet middle school programs (and likely more that I don't know, and more still who got in the pool but did not get an offer or declined an offer). So it's possible and in fact highly probable that a good portion of students in 5th grade CES will make one or both lotteries (especially when you consider they needed a minimum normed MAP-R score to be in CES in the first place - and scores vary year to year but not by that much).

Thank you for clarifying this!

It seems so backwards that kids get 2 fabulous years in magnet and then back to nothing. Who knows what the district will do about any of these magnet programs going forward...

You lotteried into those magnets. We should go back to G&T applications. Those who truly deserve to be in enriched programs. Not based on luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question as a fellow 4th grade parent — will these programs exist when our kids are trying for them next year? We’re currently in a CES and it’s been such a wonderful experience we really hope to get into the MS programs…

By the scores here my kid should qualify, so it’s a matter of the lottery and whether this will actually exist….

The CES kids are evaluated as part of the cohort from their CES elementary not their home elementary. They’re not going to take 10-15 kids from the same ES in the MS magnet programs. At least, my kid who went to CES did not get offered a MS magnet option. My less academically inclined but still solid student who did not get into or go to CES got offered MS magnet seats in the summer out of the wait pool. We declined. All of the CES kids from my non-CES kid’s grade in our neighborhood ES came back for MS and did not go to MS magnet.

Because they are no longer application programs I think there are a lot more first round admittees who decline. At least a couple years ago there seemed to be a lot of wait pool movement.

There are a bunch of incorrect things in the first paragraph here. The middle school magnet admission process does not artificially limit the number of kids coming from a specific elementary school. Placement in the lottery is solely based on grades and locally normed MAP scores (which are different based on the FARMS level of the elementary school - and the zoned elementary school is used, not the CES elementary, if different). Once a student is placed in either or both lotteries, selection is just that - a lottery. Note that for TMPS, some seats are reserved for students who are in boundary for TPMS; not sure if Eastern works the same way.

FWIW, I can think of at least 10 students from my kid's CES elementary who are in one of the two magnet middle school programs (and likely more that I don't know, and more still who got in the pool but did not get an offer or declined an offer). So it's possible and in fact highly probable that a good portion of students in 5th grade CES will make one or both lotteries (especially when you consider they needed a minimum normed MAP-R score to be in CES in the first place - and scores vary year to year but not by that much).

Thank you for clarifying this!

It seems so backwards that kids get 2 fabulous years in magnet and then back to nothing. Who knows what the district will do about any of these magnet programs going forward...

You lotteried into those magnets. We should go back to G&T applications. Those who truly deserve to be in enriched programs. Not based on luck.

I 100% agree -- this is the PP you quoted. My kid is 99th percentile in both MAP-R and M and was indicated as a "9" on all three domains of the COGAT last year. She's thriving in the CES and I feel so relieved she made it in and now have to go through this all over again.

I know, I know... equity. But to me equity is about everyone getting what they need. Leaving gifted kids behind is not equity!!

[Anonymous]

DP here. I agree the system is broken. I do think they should find ways to include lower-SES kids even with lower scores-- a poorer kid who has a lower MAP score than the rich kids because they haven't gotten outside enrichment and their home school's math class moves slow may well deserve to be in just as much as those richer kids

But the current model doesn't just do that... it also includes a large number of middle class kids in the bottom part of the top 15% of their class who have no real need for special programs, but whose parents accept the spots because of how mediocre the home school curriculum is for smart kids. (I have one of those kids, and if we had won the lottery we would have seriously considered going for that reason, even though I would have felt guilty about it knowing that it's not really meant for kids like mine.)

If they're going to keep the criteria as-is, they need to increase the number of spaces as is so most kids in the lottery can attend. If not, they need to fix the criteria (and fix the home schools, so that only kids who really need extra challenge will opt in.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question as a fellow 4th grade parent — will these programs exist when our kids are trying for them next year? We’re currently in a CES and it’s been such a wonderful experience we really hope to get into the MS programs…

By the scores here my kid should qualify, so it’s a matter of the lottery and whether this will actually exist….

The CES kids are evaluated as part of the cohort from their CES elementary not their home elementary. They’re not going to take 10-15 kids from the same ES in the MS magnet programs. At least, my kid who went to CES did not get offered a MS magnet option. My less academically inclined but still solid student who did not get into or go to CES got offered MS magnet seats in the summer out of the wait pool. We declined. All of the CES kids from my non-CES kid’s grade in our neighborhood ES came back for MS and did not go to MS magnet.

Because they are no longer application programs I think there are a lot more first round admittees who decline. At least a couple years ago there seemed to be a lot of wait pool movement.

There are a bunch of incorrect things in the first paragraph here. The middle school magnet admission process does not artificially limit the number of kids coming from a specific elementary school. Placement in the lottery is solely based on grades and locally normed MAP scores (which are different based on the FARMS level of the elementary school - and the zoned elementary school is used, not the CES elementary, if different). Once a student is placed in either or both lotteries, selection is just that - a lottery. Note that for TMPS, some seats are reserved for students who are in boundary for TPMS; not sure if Eastern works the same way.

FWIW, I can think of at least 10 students from my kid's CES elementary who are in one of the two magnet middle school programs (and likely more that I don't know, and more still who got in the pool but did not get an offer or declined an offer). So it's possible and in fact highly probable that a good portion of students in 5th grade CES will make one or both lotteries (especially when you consider they needed a minimum normed MAP-R score to be in CES in the first place - and scores vary year to year but not by that much).

In-bounds TPMS has been given 25 program seats/year. When considering proportionality to the incoming populations in-bounds and for the rest of the lower county magnet catchment, it has afforded in-bounds TPMS students several times the likelihood of receiving that enriched programming. On top of that, any drops from the program after 6th grade starts have been filled by those going to TPMS already.

Separately, in addition to local norming, individual students receiving services (individual FARMS or EML status, 504 accommodation or IEP) have had a lower bar for their locally normed MAP to be placed in the lottery pools for the past several years. That is for any of the CESs or criteria-based MS magnets, not just TPMS, and the reasoning behind that (and local norming itself) has been discussed in many prior threads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question as a fellow 4th grade parent — will these programs exist when our kids are trying for them next year? We’re currently in a CES and it’s been such a wonderful experience we really hope to get into the MS programs…

By the scores here my kid should qualify, so it’s a matter of the lottery and whether this will actually exist….

The CES kids are evaluated as part of the cohort from their CES elementary not their home elementary. They’re not going to take 10-15 kids from the same ES in the MS magnet programs. At least, my kid who went to CES did not get offered a MS magnet option. My less academically inclined but still solid student who did not get into or go to CES got offered MS magnet seats in the summer out of the wait pool. We declined. All of the CES kids from my non-CES kid’s grade in our neighborhood ES came back for MS and did not go to MS magnet.

Because they are no longer application programs I think there are a lot more first round admittees who decline. At least a couple years ago there seemed to be a lot of wait pool movement.

It's not based purely on "luck" - there is an objective component based on grades and MAP threshholds. My kid is a 99 percentiler in MAP-M and MAP-R and yet I'm so sick of the constant whining about magnet admission only going to kids who truly "deserve it." Who's to say who "deserves" it? One of the purposes of the magnet is supposed to be enrichment for kids who otherwise would not have a cohort at their home school. Richie Rich at his home W ES or MS is probably going to do just fine. Also, being placed in the lottery means that your kid has been identified for enrichment. If they are not getting that enrichment at the home school, that is a different issue altogether and clearly much more effort needs to be made to ensure that the enrichment that is promised by MCPS is actually implemented. There are folks on the MCCPTA Gifted Ed committee doing that work, and they could certainly use more help!


There are a bunch of incorrect things in the first paragraph here. The middle school magnet admission process does not artificially limit the number of kids coming from a specific elementary school. Placement in the lottery is solely based on grades and locally normed MAP scores (which are different based on the FARMS level of the elementary school - and the zoned elementary school is used, not the CES elementary, if different). Once a student is placed in either or both lotteries, selection is just that - a lottery. Note that for TMPS, some seats are reserved for students who are in boundary for TPMS; not sure if Eastern works the same way.

FWIW, I can think of at least 10 students from my kid's CES elementary who are in one of the two magnet middle school programs (and likely more that I don't know, and more still who got in the pool but did not get an offer or declined an offer). So it's possible and in fact highly probable that a good portion of students in 5th grade CES will make one or both lotteries (especially when you consider they needed a minimum normed MAP-R score to be in CES in the first place - and scores vary year to year but not by that much).

Thank you for clarifying this!

It seems so backwards that kids get 2 fabulous years in magnet and then back to nothing. Who knows what the district will do about any of these magnet programs going forward...

You lotteried into those magnets. We should go back to G&T applications. Those who truly deserve to be in enriched programs. Not based on luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question as a fellow 4th grade parent — will these programs exist when our kids are trying for them next year? We’re currently in a CES and it’s been such a wonderful experience we really hope to get into the MS programs…

By the scores here my kid should qualify, so it’s a matter of the lottery and whether this will actually exist….

The CES kids are evaluated as part of the cohort from their CES elementary not their home elementary. They’re not going to take 10-15 kids from the same ES in the MS magnet programs. At least, my kid who went to CES did not get offered a MS magnet option. My less academically inclined but still solid student who did not get into or go to CES got offered MS magnet seats in the summer out of the wait pool. We declined. All of the CES kids from my non-CES kid’s grade in our neighborhood ES came back for MS and did not go to MS magnet.

Because they are no longer application programs I think there are a lot more first round admittees who decline. At least a couple years ago there seemed to be a lot of wait pool movement.

There are a bunch of incorrect things in the first paragraph here. The middle school magnet admission process does not artificially limit the number of kids coming from a specific elementary school. Placement in the lottery is solely based on grades and locally normed MAP scores (which are different based on the FARMS level of the elementary school - and the zoned elementary school is used, not the CES elementary, if different). Once a student is placed in either or both lotteries, selection is just that - a lottery. Note that for TMPS, some seats are reserved for students who are in boundary for TPMS; not sure if Eastern works the same way.

FWIW, I can think of at least 10 students from my kid's CES elementary who are in one of the two magnet middle school programs (and likely more that I don't know, and more still who got in the pool but did not get an offer or declined an offer). So it's possible and in fact highly probable that a good portion of students in 5th grade CES will make one or both lotteries (especially when you consider they needed a minimum normed MAP-R score to be in CES in the first place - and scores vary year to year but not by that much).

Thank you for clarifying this!

It seems so backwards that kids get 2 fabulous years in magnet and then back to nothing. Who knows what the district will do about any of these magnet programs going forward...

You lotteried into those magnets. We should go back to G&T applications. Those who truly deserve to be in enriched programs. Not based on luck.

I 100% agree -- this is the PP you quoted. My kid is 99th percentile in both MAP-R and M and was indicated as a "9" on all three domains of the COGAT last year. She's thriving in the CES and I feel so relieved she made it in and now have to go through this all over again.

I know, I know... equity. But to me equity is about everyone getting what they need. Leaving gifted kids behind is not equity!!

I know! I miiss the good old days when a few week at a prep program would guarantee you a seat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question as a fellow 4th grade parent — will these programs exist when our kids are trying for them next year? We’re currently in a CES and it’s been such a wonderful experience we really hope to get into the MS programs…

By the scores here my kid should qualify, so it’s a matter of the lottery and whether this will actually exist….

The CES kids are evaluated as part of the cohort from their CES elementary not their home elementary. They’re not going to take 10-15 kids from the same ES in the MS magnet programs. At least, my kid who went to CES did not get offered a MS magnet option. My less academically inclined but still solid student who did not get into or go to CES got offered MS magnet seats in the summer out of the wait pool. We declined. All of the CES kids from my non-CES kid’s grade in our neighborhood ES came back for MS and did not go to MS magnet.

Because they are no longer application programs I think there are a lot more first round admittees who decline. At least a couple years ago there seemed to be a lot of wait pool movement.

There are a bunch of incorrect things in the first paragraph here. The middle school magnet admission process does not artificially limit the number of kids coming from a specific elementary school. Placement in the lottery is solely based on grades and locally normed MAP scores (which are different based on the FARMS level of the elementary school - and the zoned elementary school is used, not the CES elementary, if different). Once a student is placed in either or both lotteries, selection is just that - a lottery. Note that for TMPS, some seats are reserved for students who are in boundary for TPMS; not sure if Eastern works the same way.

FWIW, I can think of at least 10 students from my kid's CES elementary who are in one of the two magnet middle school programs (and likely more that I don't know, and more still who got in the pool but did not get an offer or declined an offer). So it's possible and in fact highly probable that a good portion of students in 5th grade CES will make one or both lotteries (especially when you consider they needed a minimum normed MAP-R score to be in CES in the first place - and scores vary year to year but not by that much).

In-bounds TPMS has been given 25 program seats/year. When considering proportionality to the incoming populations in-bounds and for the rest of the lower county magnet catchment, it has afforded in-bounds TPMS students several times the likelihood of receiving that enriched programming. On top of that, any drops from the program after 6th grade starts have been filled by those going to TPMS already.

Separately, in addition to local norming, individual students receiving services (individual FARMS or EML status, 504 accommodation or IEP) have had a lower bar for their locally normed MAP to be placed in the lottery pools for the past several years. That is for any of the CESs or criteria-based MS magnets, not just TPMS, and the reasoning behind that (and local norming itself) has been discussed in many prior threads.

They don't give them the seats. Those seats aren't part of the program. If the they removed them they wouldn't increase the size of the program since they are from the local schools allocation.