Duel Enrollment Options in FCPS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like my kids counselor is always trying to talk them into easier/lower classes and I have never been able to figure out why!

It's because there are a lot of pushy parents who expect their kids to take the highest level offered without considering the kids' interests, strengths, or time and because the achievement-oriented culture can make them feel like they have to take classes because their parents want them to or their friends are taking them. FCPS is open enrollment at the HS level, so anyone can sign up for any class, there's no barrier to entry on AP classes, whether the actual kid is ready for it or not. The message I hear from my kids' school is that the kids should take the right level for them and some realism about the time/reading commitments for some of the AP classes. The school is sometimes the only ones telling them that they don't have to take AP everything.

University DE credits are just as easy to check as APs, too. The FCPS publishes the VCCS course numbers for the DE classes, and most colleges have a transfer credit lookup portal where you can see what school accept the credits. My kid takes a mix of AP and DE, and there is nowhere we've looked (even OOS) that won't give them credit for freshman English for one of the ENG 111/ENG 112 series DE courses (Mason will only credit ENG 112, but they're the exception). The types of schools that don't take DE credit (which is basically a community college transfer class) are typically the same ones that don't give AP credit either.

I think some of the "less rigorous" perception come from investment in and marketing of the AP system and snobbery about community colleges. I see the value of the national/unified curriculum of the AP courses, but having the entire course hinge on a single exam is not ideal and the College Board does a good job marketing their $100/pop exams. We have a very good community college system in Virginia, and it would be nice if FCPS levered it to offer some of the types of program that other states do where advanced students can basically graduate with an associate's degree and their diploma at the same time (my niece and nephew are in this type of program in NYC).

At one of our college nights, someone asked a panel of college admissions officers if colleges considered the two differently, and all of the admissions reps said no, DE and AP were college-level and considered high-rigor. Our school counselor moderating felt the need at the end to overrule them and say that the high school encouraged AP and felt that was the highest rigor, but it sounded like a justification for why they offer 30+ AP courses and only 4 DE courses on campus. The people in the admission office actually reviewing applications didn't express a preference.

Name the school

[Anonymous]

Ironically, my kids college accepted most of his AP credits (27 out of I think 33) but did not accept his DE in multivariate calculus from George Mason (he got an A). He had to retake it at college (stem major). So I don't know that DE is a better situation though my sample size is 1. Regardless it made retaking it in college a whole lot easier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Wow. my kid is a freshman and just getting rolling but this is all confusing. That's so unfortunate and lucky for others whether or not you school has the teachers with the credentials to provide these DE classes. I said unlucky...but high school shouldn't be based on luck. I think FCPS needs to do SOMETHING (not sure what) to provide opportunities to everyone. Every student should have the same opportunities.

FCPS has started a program to encourage teachers to get the classes needed to teach DE. They are providing tuition reimbursement for classes that lead to a DE certification. But it's also a long process. It took 2 years for FCPS/NVCC to approve the DE class I teach (no AP for it).

NP and HS teacher. None of us in my department want to do this. There is very little incentive, if any, for teachers to go through all this. For what? Many of us do not want to teach DE classes and we would have to take additional classes to do so. We already have masters degrees, but in education, so we are not qualified for DE. Some of us already have our +30.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ironically, my kids college accepted most of his AP credits (27 out of I think 33) but did not accept his DE in multivariate calculus from George Mason (he got an A). He had to retake it at college (stem major). So I don't know that DE is a better situation though my sample size is 1. Regardless it made retaking it in college a whole lot easier.

DE in math is not accepted at most schools, at least that is the anecdotal info I have from friends with older kids. The plus is that the material is not new when they see it in college, which makes those classes a bit easier for them and reinforces the material, which will help in later classes in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ironically, my kids college accepted most of his AP credits (27 out of I think 33) but did not accept his DE in multivariate calculus from George Mason (he got an A). He had to retake it at college (stem major). So I don't know that DE is a better situation though my sample size is 1. Regardless it made retaking it in college a whole lot easier.

DE in math is not accepted at most schools, at least that is the anecdotal info I have from friends with older kids. The plus is that the material is not new when they see it in college, which makes those classes a bit easier for them and reinforces the material, which will help in later classes in college.

That’s not true. Look at the transfer website for VT and UVA and you will see almost all DE math is accepted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ironically, my kids college accepted most of his AP credits (27 out of I think 33) but did not accept his DE in multivariate calculus from George Mason (he got an A). He had to retake it at college (stem major). So I don't know that DE is a better situation though my sample size is 1. Regardless it made retaking it in college a whole lot easier.

DE in math is not accepted at most schools, at least that is the anecdotal info I have from friends with older kids. The plus is that the material is not new when they see it in college, which makes those classes a bit easier for them and reinforces the material, which will help in later classes in college.

That’s not true. Look at the transfer website for VT and UVA and you will see almost all DE math is accepted.

Two schools, with agreements with schools in the state of Virginia, is not most. Kids who have gone out of state and to private schools for Engineering have not accepted the DE math classes. They want students to take their class so that they know that the students are ready for the future work. It might be different if the DE class is taught at a community college and not a HS but I know students who took DE through their FCPS HS that was not accepted at their colleges.

This is like the IB program. The IB supporters all say "But the credits are accepted at UVA" and if you look at the IB website you can see the list of colleges that have an agreement to accept IB. It is a small list and it is a gamble that those classes will be accepted outside of those schools.

Math past Calculus is DE so it is not like families have a choice, unless their child wants to take AP Stats, which is a good class. But AP vs DE for English and the like is something that parents should be thinking about what will be accepted and what might not be accepted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ironically, my kids college accepted most of his AP credits (27 out of I think 33) but did not accept his DE in multivariate calculus from George Mason (he got an A). He had to retake it at college (stem major). So I don't know that DE is a better situation though my sample size is 1. Regardless it made retaking it in college a whole lot easier.

DE in math is not accepted at most schools, at least that is the anecdotal info I have from friends with older kids. The plus is that the material is not new when they see it in college, which makes those classes a bit easier for them and reinforces the material, which will help in later classes in college.

That’s not true. Look at the transfer website for VT and UVA and you will see almost all DE math is accepted.

Two schools, with agreements with schools in the state of Virginia, is not most. Kids who have gone out of state and to private schools for Engineering have not accepted the DE math classes. They want students to take their class so that they know that the students are ready for the future work. It might be different if the DE class is taught at a community college and not a HS but I know students who took DE through their FCPS HS that was not accepted at their colleges.

This is like the IB program. The IB supporters all say "But the credits are accepted at UVA" and if you look at the IB website you can see the list of colleges that have an agreement to accept IB. It is a small list and it is a gamble that those classes will be accepted outside of those schools.

Math past Calculus is DE so it is not like families have a choice, unless their child wants to take AP Stats, which is a good class. But AP vs DE for English and the like is something that parents should be thinking about what will be accepted and what might not be accepted.

Calm down, sweetie. It’s two examples in which I’m right. You can look up more and see that I’d continue to be right. Name some colleges that don’t accept DE and don’t forget your cite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a lot of these decisions are made by availability of teachers. NoVA CC changed their rules recently so that the DE teachers must have a Masters degree in the subject they're teaching. If the school does not have such a resource, they likely cannot have a DE course offering in the subject (for instance, DD's math teacher has an engineering degree; it would not suffice for teaching a DE Calc course, although she is qualified to teach the AP Calc course).

Wow. my kid is a freshman and just getting rolling but this is all confusing. That's so unfortunate and lucky for others whether or not you school has the teachers with the credentials to provide these DE classes. I said unlucky...but high school shouldn't be based on luck. I think FCPS needs to do SOMETHING (not sure what) to provide opportunities to everyone. Every student should have the same opportunities.

Trolling!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son is a Freshman at in-state college. He was telling me how many credits other students have from dual enrollment (DE) in High School and these other students went to other FCPS HSs. His HS offered very few DE classes but plenty of AP classes. Can someone explain or discuss what makes a HS offer more DE classes than others or what makes a HS offer more AP classes than others? It seems like DE classes are much easier than the AP classes, so my son feels like students at those HSs have such an advantage. I feel like I'm missing something because there should be equal opportunities at every FCPS HS, shouldn't there?

You got it right in your post it is DUAL not DUEL. APs are weird anyway as some colleges accept different ones based upon your major and score. DEs are similar. You have to find a good match between your child’s college policy, career and major aspirations. I am erring on the side of AP classes as that is what my son wants. There is no one size fits all for this, and so many kids switch majors and plans, keeping options open is a good plan. In other parts of VA they may emphasize DE classes as they do in rural areas because it can get more kids interested and used to community college. What works and worked for one child and one jurisdiction won’t work for everyone.