I told my staff to get a Real Job

[Anonymous]

I don't buy this argument that "real skills" can only be learned in person. Retire already, boomer.

[Anonymous]

OP, I don't disagree that one generally learns more, faster by going into a hardcore workaholic position. It is the path I took, and I couldn't recommend it more!

On the other hand, you should be fired. You should not be a manager. The fact that you dont even understand the problem with your comments to your mid-30s employees indicates the only reason you have your job is the peter principle. Get off your high horse; you are the one fully failing at your job! Hopefully this is heads up enough to your superiors to get you out of any management position.

[Anonymous]

OP, you need to be fired for that.

[Anonymous]

You're spending way too much energy thinking about this. If they are not doing the job you need them to do and are paying them to do, fire them and get 25 year olds who want to prove themselves. In person vs remote is a red herring. I work with plenty of professionals remotely and they put in a ton of hours and we have metrics for their work etc.
some people are faster and some are slower at learning as well so the # of hours spent on "work" is not always a good indicator of competence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look OP raised a lot of hackles. But there is some validity.
It's hard if not impossible to be an autodidact about everything working in isolation with little face to face peer interaction, and possibly not even much virtually.
Judgement. Nuance. Context.
Investment in employees.

Okay but what is it about the current position that makes it a bad place for good work habits? If you have to go somewhere else to be properly managed and trained, it is a comment on the current workplace. It sounds like, "Go work for a real company because we are not one."

[Anonymous]

wow

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look OP raised a lot of hackles. But there is some validity.
It's hard if not impossible to be an autodidact about everything working in isolation with little face to face peer interaction, and possibly not even much virtually.
Judgement. Nuance. Context.
Investment in employees.

Okay but what is it about the current position that makes it a bad place for good work habits? If you have to go somewhere else to be properly managed and trained, it is a comment on the current workplace. It sounds like, "Go work for a real company because we are not one."

It is the set up. Like a lot of DC companies. The last four high paid jobs I got was similar places. Smaller companies, with great WLB, regular hours but being smaller means you need to know more. Here is a real example. Staff said I would like this GRC software installed. I said I agree. I have installed that software before. Can you do the following.
1) get a ballpark estimate of cost
2) be part of budgeting process to see about funding
3) help me write business case and board presentation to get support for it
4) get Risk, Audit, Complliance, First line of Defence, Legal and Sr. Mgt team on board to use tool at same time with same ratings and risk approach. Also get them to give up budget for it
5) update are policies and procedures to reflect new tool
6) Do RFP with three vendors
7) get Vendor Mgt and Legal involved on sign off
9) set up road map for implementation
10) conduct training sessions and write guidance doucuments to use tool
11) get buy in on how to document things in tool the same way all areas
12) will documents in tool be searchable?
13) write records retention policy
14) will you be the system admin for tool and train others on tool?.
15) process to import existing date into tool.
16) once complete attend board meeting with me to share output tool once we have a full view of risk so they can see value.
17) once live how will we use AI, get real time dashboards, alerts, track issues what will be info sec controls etc.

I got a look like I am crazy. Meanwhile my last places the staff would run with that as most were from places they do software implementations and roll outs all the time. I have three or five of these things going at once at one job. But my first time I was a small clog in a group of 40 people and I was just taking notes, tracking deliverables, testing functionality, doing walkthroughs with staff on their manual processes we are trying to automate. and reporting back. Till eventually I was in charge.

In a small place hard to jump to in charge and that is just a fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look OP raised a lot of hackles. But there is some validity.
It's hard if not impossible to be an autodidact about everything working in isolation with little face to face peer interaction, and possibly not even much virtually.
Judgement. Nuance. Context.
Investment in employees.

Okay but what is it about the current position that makes it a bad place for good work habits? If you have to go somewhere else to be properly managed and trained, it is a comment on the current workplace. It sounds like, "Go work for a real company because we are not one."

Walt Disney once said he only expects two things from employees:
1) Dream the Impossible
2) Then do the Impossible.

But seriously in smaller companies you get asked to do things that dont exist and no one has the SME skills. There is no one to teach you. You have to know it before you start. And there is small bandwidth. Picture taking over marketing in a small company that never had a marketing dept. You need to learn it elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

I really hope this was written by a troll.

Otherwise OP is some kind of sadist.

Hope they get what they so richly deserve.

[Anonymous]

Yes, you were clearly wrong. I hope you are trolling us but if not, they should fire you. Really.

- manager

[Anonymous]

OP, you communicated so poorly here that I can only imagine these conversations go badly in the workplace.

I think you need to come up with a small number of manageable, measurable goals, and get your employees to buy in. Stop whining about the WFH culture. Make YOUR culture positive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you were clearly wrong. I hope you are trolling us but if not, they should fire you. Really.

- manager

So you are saying treat staff like Mushrooms? Keep them in the dark.

Look I recall the say (many many many years ago) when I made Manager in the Big 4. I was all bright eyed and naive. We went to Florida for new manager training. Was like 500 of us nationwide. The senior partner at start said I want 50 of you to stand up. Some in room pointed to one or two rows holding 50 people to stand up. The other 450 of us was left sitting.

He then said only one out of 10 new managers make it to partner. The reality is 90 percent of you sitting wont be here in 5 years. You need to really step up our game, learn, sell and add value just to make it to next level and then even more to make Partner.

I dont think it is a good thing for someone only 35 who had 30 years to retirement to give up on them. Next thing you know you are 50 in a blink of an eye. And the job market for 50-60 is a fierce market where unless you are a true SME or made it to VP or higher when let go you most likely will never work again.

Sadly the 35 year olds somehow dont think they ever will be 50 plus. Once you break 55 you are essentially a hired gun. You get hired to do stuff ASAP with no training at all and as soon as done you are out the door. Or not hired at all. My expectations were too high.

Remember the famous movie The Blob. In it a creature is killing everyone in the remote Artic compound in Dead of winter with sub zero temps where they are cut off from any rescue. In the end in a mass fire fight they realize they could kill it via fire. In the end only two men are left and all buildings are burning and creature dead. One man turns to the other and says thank God we killed it but now what once the fires go out we have no buildings and no heat source and we are in the Artic circle. The man holds out his hands, warms them by the fire and says we will worr your that once the fire goes out.

That is basically a 35 year old today thinking about 50.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you communicated so poorly here that I can only imagine these conversations go badly in the workplace.

I think you need to come up with a small number of manageable, measurable goals, and get your employees to buy in. Stop whining about the WFH culture. Make YOUR culture positive.

Ha Ha Ha. Shouldn't they be the ones doing that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you were clearly wrong. I hope you are trolling us but if not, they should fire you. Really.

- manager

So you are saying treat staff like Mushrooms? Keep them in the dark.

Look I recall the say (many many many years ago) when I made Manager in the Big 4. I was all bright eyed and naive. We went to Florida for new manager training. Was like 500 of us nationwide. The senior partner at start said I want 50 of you to stand up. Some in room pointed to one or two rows holding 50 people to stand up. The other 450 of us was left sitting.

He then said only one out of 10 new managers make it to partner. The reality is 90 percent of you sitting wont be here in 5 years. You need to really step up our game, learn, sell and add value just to make it to next level and then even more to make Partner.

I dont think it is a good thing for someone only 35 who had 30 years to retirement to give up on them. Next thing you know you are 50 in a blink of an eye. And the job market for 50-60 is a fierce market where unless you are a true SME or made it to VP or higher when let go you most likely will never work again.

Sadly the 35 year olds somehow dont think they ever will be 50 plus. Once you break 55 you are essentially a hired gun. You get hired to do stuff ASAP with no training at all and as soon as done you are out the door. Or not hired at all. My expectations were too high.

Remember the famous movie The Blob. In it a creature is killing everyone in the remote Artic compound in Dead of winter with sub zero temps where they are cut off from any rescue. In the end in a mass fire fight they realize they could kill it via fire. In the end only two men are left and all buildings are burning and creature dead. One man turns to the other and says thank God we killed it but now what once the fires go out we have no buildings and no heat source and we are in the Artic circle. The man holds out his hands, warms them by the fire and says we will worr your that once the fire goes out.

That is basically a 35 year old today thinking about 50.

You cant even quite the right movie. “The Thing”

[Anonymous]

Imagine have a 30+ year career and still not understanding how to give a performance review without sparking an HR investigation. Wow.