Why don't schools automatically reevaluate every year?

[Anonymous]

As an AAP teacher I see a fair amount of kids who are struggling with reading and writing. I work hard to help them, but I wonder how they got in the program. And we certainly don’t have all pass advanced on SOLs, especially reading. Plenty of pass proficient scores. I wonder if we will have several fail when they change the cut scores this year or next.

Not that SOLs are the end all. But it’s no longer called the Gifted Talented Center. It’s Advanced Academics, which is different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry your kid didn’t get in. No, don’t lie because it’s anonymous.

No one needs to get in at any time other than the existing opportunities. If a kid in AAP is getting failing grades, they should be removed.

OP here. You are correct that my child did not get in at 2nd grade but he is in advanced math now in 4th grade. We are not reapplying because my kid's friends are not in the AAP class (we are at a LLIV school) and why bother because he's already getting the main benefit of AAP by pushing in for math?

But people like you are just ridiculous. You don't think a child's scores can be very different in 2nd vs 5th grade? I'm confident that if you retested all the kids in 5th grade, you'd see very different scores than you did in 2nd grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It really should be more fluid. Some kids should cycle in and out, while some kids will always be in and most will always be out.

If you are in a program called advanced ACADEMIC program and had the benefit of getting advanced academic enrichment all year and yet you are scoring lower on the MAP than students who had zero academic enrichment, you should get bumped out.

Likewise the students who had no academic enrichment and were with students who were lower academically, which potentially stalled their pace of learning, yet scored high on the MAP should be moved into the program.

It’s ridiculous you test in as a second grader and automatically stay in through 8th grade.

100%

My non-AAP middle schooler and her friends are all in honors everything and they are rocking it! Meanwhile we know kids in AAP that are getting Bs and Cs. Same teachers, same curriculum (we are friends with a middle school history teacher who has confirmed that her team teaches the exact same curriculum to their honors and AAP classes). Which of these kids do you think are more advanced and are going to succeed in high school and beyond?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry your kid didn’t get in. No, don’t lie because it’s anonymous.

No one needs to get in at any time other than the existing opportunities. If a kid in AAP is getting failing grades, they should be removed.

OP here. You are correct that my child did not get in at 2nd grade but he is in advanced math now in 4th grade. We are not reapplying because my kid's friends are not in the AAP class (we are at a LLIV school) and why bother because he's already getting the main benefit of AAP by pushing in for math?

But people like you are just ridiculous. You don't think a child's scores can be very different in 2nd vs 5th grade? I'm confident that if you retested all the kids in 5th grade, you'd see very different scores than you did in 2nd grade.

You seem to have a misunderstanding about these assessments. All the tests are age-normed. Abilities tests are not expected to change that much across time.

It’s not like the kid takes a second grade test as a second grader and then they would give the same second grade test again in fifth grade. And it’s not testing material learned or taught.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry your kid didn’t get in. No, don’t lie because it’s anonymous.

No one needs to get in at any time other than the existing opportunities. If a kid in AAP is getting failing grades, they should be removed.

OP here. You are correct that my child did not get in at 2nd grade but he is in advanced math now in 4th grade. We are not reapplying because my kid's friends are not in the AAP class (we are at a LLIV school) and why bother because he's already getting the main benefit of AAP by pushing in for math?

But people like you are just ridiculous. You don't think a child's scores can be very different in 2nd vs 5th grade? I'm confident that if you retested all the kids in 5th grade, you'd see very different scores than you did in 2nd grade.

You seem to have a misunderstanding about these assessments. All the tests are age-normed. Abilities tests are not expected to change that much across time.

It’s not like the kid takes a second grade test as a second grader and then they would give the same second grade test again in fifth grade. And it’s not testing material learned or taught.

Dp. The NGAT is not age normed. It's by grade, and it's not an actual IQ test.

I agree with you that the variance is unlikely to be great as pp suggests. Without data specifically on the NGAT, however, it's difficult to know how much change there could be across time.

[Anonymous]

I agree with having more on- and off-ramps but how are you going to catch up the 5th or 6th grader who has been in general ed? They may be capable but now they are significantly behind in substantive coverage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with having more on- and off-ramps but how are you going to catch up the 5th or 6th grader who has been in general ed? They may be capable but now they are significantly behind in substantive coverage.

Our school did not have LLIV but we had Advanced Math. Kids joined Advanced Math without issues in 6th grade every year. Math is the only area that is really accelerated in LIV or advanced studies or whatever they are calling it now. DS deferred LIV services and joined the AAP program in MS. He has straight As with little tono homework at Carson. LIV is not that challenging or deep. Catching up is not going to be an issue for a kid who belongs in LIV.

There are kids who struggle in LIV. The math whiz who is not strong in LA, the creative kid who is great at writing but weak in math. Plenty og kids who are ahead in one area but not the others. Plenty of kids struggling with the material who would be fine in the regular class with a push in for math or LA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry your kid didn’t get in. No, don’t lie because it’s anonymous.

No one needs to get in at any time other than the existing opportunities. If a kid in AAP is getting failing grades, they should be removed.

OP here. You are correct that my child did not get in at 2nd grade but he is in advanced math now in 4th grade. We are not reapplying because my kid's friends are not in the AAP class (we are at a LLIV school) and why bother because he's already getting the main benefit of AAP by pushing in for math?

But people like you are just ridiculous. You don't think a child's scores can be very different in 2nd vs 5th grade? I'm confident that if you retested all the kids in 5th grade, you'd see very different scores than you did in 2nd grade.

Some kids would score higher but the kids who need help in LIV are going to get the same scores because their parents will make sure that they do through more test prep. These are the same parents that prepped for the first round of tests and immediately asked where to go and prep for the new test this year.

Our school was a language immersion school. The parents of kids that were ahead in the non-language class were encouraged to apply for LIV services and moved to the center. Plenty of teachers see the kids who could use more and are not going to get it at their base school and talk to the parents. We know kids who moved to the center in 5th and 6th grade without any issues.

[Anonymous]

AAP is about providing more opportunity for deeper/more abstract analysis for kids who can participate in that and thrive. My kid can 100% participate in that and enjoys it, but her grades are never going to be all 4's. She has friends in regular classes making all 4's who can't hold a conversation beyond the most basic shallow level of a topic. It's an obvious difference. So I'm not sure how you would reevaluate every year for AAP, but grades and SOL aren't it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AAP is about providing more opportunity for deeper/more abstract analysis for kids who can participate in that and thrive. My kid can 100% participate in that and enjoys it, but her grades are never going to be all 4's. She has friends in regular classes making all 4's who can't hold a conversation beyond the most basic shallow level of a topic. It's an obvious difference. So I'm not sure how you would reevaluate every year for AAP, but grades and SOL aren't it.

Shy, quiet kids aren't dumb.... they are just shy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AAP is about providing more opportunity for deeper/more abstract analysis for kids who can participate in that and thrive. My kid can 100% participate in that and enjoys it, but her grades are never going to be all 4's. She has friends in regular classes making all 4's who can't hold a conversation beyond the most basic shallow level of a topic. It's an obvious difference. So I'm not sure how you would reevaluate every year for AAP, but grades and SOL aren't it.

They don't really dive that much deeper than the regular class. The only difference is in math. I know parents want to believe that somehow or another the AAP curriculum is more advanced, but it really isn't. It could be, if the kids in the class could handle the regular work and the deep dives but, as several teachers in this thread have already said, they are working to keep kids on grade level because they are struggling. You might think getting 3's in AAP is fine but it really isn't. The material is not that advanced. A 3 means that your kid is slowing the class down.

It doesn't mean you kid isn't a good kid just that they are not in need of LIV services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP is about providing more opportunity for deeper/more abstract analysis for kids who can participate in that and thrive. My kid can 100% participate in that and enjoys it, but her grades are never going to be all 4's. She has friends in regular classes making all 4's who can't hold a conversation beyond the most basic shallow level of a topic. It's an obvious difference. So I'm not sure how you would reevaluate every year for AAP, but grades and SOL aren't it.

Shy, quiet kids aren't dumb.... they are just shy

You have to know the basics before being able to go deeper. How do you assess how well a kid knows the basics ? Tests and grades !

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP is about providing more opportunity for deeper/more abstract analysis for kids who can participate in that and thrive. My kid can 100% participate in that and enjoys it, but her grades are never going to be all 4's. She has friends in regular classes making all 4's who can't hold a conversation beyond the most basic shallow level of a topic. It's an obvious difference. So I'm not sure how you would reevaluate every year for AAP, but grades and SOL aren't it.

They don't really dive that much deeper than the regular class. The only difference is in math. I know parents want to believe that somehow or another the AAP curriculum is more advanced, but it really isn't. It could be, if the kids in the class could handle the regular work and the deep dives but, as several teachers in this thread have already said, they are working to keep kids on grade level because they are struggling. You might think getting 3's in AAP is fine but it really isn't. The material is not that advanced. A 3 means that your kid is slowing the class down.

It doesn't mean you kid isn't a good kid just that they are not in need of LIV services.

This is very school dependent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP is about providing more opportunity for deeper/more abstract analysis for kids who can participate in that and thrive. My kid can 100% participate in that and enjoys it, but her grades are never going to be all 4's. She has friends in regular classes making all 4's who can't hold a conversation beyond the most basic shallow level of a topic. It's an obvious difference. So I'm not sure how you would reevaluate every year for AAP, but grades and SOL aren't it.

They don't really dive that much deeper than the regular class. The only difference is in math. I know parents want to believe that somehow or another the AAP curriculum is more advanced, but it really isn't. It could be, if the kids in the class could handle the regular work and the deep dives but, as several teachers in this thread have already said, they are working to keep kids on grade level because they are struggling. You might think getting 3's in AAP is fine but it really isn't. The material is not that advanced. A 3 means that your kid is slowing the class down.

It doesn't mean you kid isn't a good kid just that they are not in need of LIV services.

This is very school dependent.

Yes - school dependent. Our center AAP goes into more depth with just about everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP is about providing more opportunity for deeper/more abstract analysis for kids who can participate in that and thrive. My kid can 100% participate in that and enjoys it, but her grades are never going to be all 4's. She has friends in regular classes making all 4's who can't hold a conversation beyond the most basic shallow level of a topic. It's an obvious difference. So I'm not sure how you would reevaluate every year for AAP, but grades and SOL aren't it.

Shy, quiet kids aren't dumb.... they are just shy

Huh? What does being shy have to do with it? One 5th grader can carry on an abstract convo about a book, the other 5th grader isn't there yet. One is in AAP, the other one isn't. Teachers, btw, are pretty good at zeroing in on the ones who are deeper thinkers. Someone also said the ability for a school to differentiate this varies in FCPS. That's true. Our center school does a good job going deeper into topics in the AAP curriculum.