Guidelines for special Ed kids in gen Ed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in a second-grade class of 27 students, and at least 9 have IEPs. The current mix of needs seems to be creating significant challenges in the classroom. My child frequently complains about the noise level and disruptive behaviors, and she’s having trouble concentrating. She’s also started showing signs of anxiety related to school.

I’m aware of the number of students receiving services because my daughter is 1 of 4 students with dyslexia who receive OG tutoring together (parents have confirmed this), and there are 5 students with autism who attend social-emotional classes together (4 parents have shared their diagnoses directly with me).

I fully support inclusion, but it doesn’t feel like this setup is serving any of the students well without additional support. The classroom teacher is clearly stretched thin. I also spoke with the principal, who said there isn’t funding for an aide. The special education teacher is shared with another grade, so they’re only in the classroom about 50% of the time.

Does anyone know what the FCPS guidelines are for elementary classrooms regarding class size and the number or percentage of students with IEPs in a single classroom?

Yes, this is an issue. In many schools, all students with IEPs in a grade are grouped into a single classroom for staffing purposes. For example, if there are ten students with IEPs in a grade, they are often placed together in one classroom with a single special education teacher or instructional assistant. Schools are not hiring enough special education staff to appropriately support students across multiple classrooms, so this grouping becomes a staffing solution rather than an educational one.

Many of these students have IEPs related to behavior and social-emotional needs, often associated with autism, ADHD, or emotional disabilities. With only one special education teacher supporting a large group, these students are not receiving the individualized support their IEPs require. Services such as push-in support for reading or science may amount to only about an hour total, shared among ten students, which is clearly insufficient.

This model is not effective for students with special education needs, and it also disrupts learning for other students in the classroom. My child, who does not have a disability, is placed in this classroom and does not receive the attention or instructional focus they need due to the level of behavioral disruption. This is one of the reasons our family is considering private school or homeschooling.

Unfortunately, this situation does not improve in middle or high school. While I support inclusion, I do not support full inclusion for all students in all settings. Some students with significant behavioral needs require additional staffing or alternative placements to ensure they—and their peers—can learn effectively.

A major part of the problem is funding. Federal law requires schools to comply with IDEA, but federal funding does not adequately support the mandates of the law. At the same time, advocacy for full inclusion has become highly political in this area, and full inclusion is more prevalent here than in other parts of the country. In many other regions, students with significant behavioral needs are placed in separate classrooms or alternative settings that better meet their needs.

Without increased staffing and more flexible placement options, neither students with IEPs nor their peers are being well served.

Thank you for stating the problem with compassion for both sides. It’s a lose-lose situation and ultimately no fault of any of the kids.

[Anonymous]

They need to get behavior intervention services in there to help. I would email the principal to request that those specialists be involved. If they aren’t, I’d escalate to the region principal because your child is not receiving a free and appropriate public education right now (FAPE) to which she is entitled.
Then I’d escalate to the school board member for your area. The teacher will be grateful.
I am a special education teacher who also supports inclusion, when it works. This also sounds like your child’s room is not really a gen ed room, and it is supposed to be, so that the kids with special ed services are in a gen ed setting as outlined in their IEPs.

I’d probably first ask for a classroom change.

BIS can pick out the kids who are driving most of the problems and come up with ways to help.

Every parent needs to push back and escalate the issue so the model gets changed and the teachers can teach. If you don’t make noise about it up the chain, it won’t change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child was always in the inclusion class in elementary because she was a high achiever at a young age and was very independent. She did not make it into AAP and was stuck. It was awful. She was ignored basically for the last 2-3 years and the expectations for her were so low that now her own drive and motivation for school is low. We placed her in all honors classes in middle school so thankfully she isn’t with those kids anymore.

This is a trope at this point. Stop blaming SPED kids for your child’s lack of attention and motivation. “Those kids” are my kids and I think ALL kids deserve attention. It’s the adults with lack of funding that caused your kid to be ignored and become jaded. Just stop.

Is it a trope? When my DC was in elementary school they put all the IEPs in one class with a dedicated SpEd teacher and it was a mess. My DC was pretty bright, super nice and an easy kid who didn’t act out. That class was so far behind the other classes in their grade. The behavior challenges were scary and disruptive. I was pretty frustrated. After 2 years of this, I didn’t think twice about sending her to the center school for AAP. I hear all the time that classes need super helpful, bright students like my kid to balance out, and from my perspective it’s wildly unfair to the super helpful, nice, and bright kids. I keep on hearing the same trope that it’s good for my child, but I don’t buy it. She thrived in AAP.

[Anonymous]

I am so, so glad we are almost done with FCPS. This is an untenable situation - my own kids were in classrooms identical to what the OP describes. Truly absurd and unacceptable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child was always in the inclusion class in elementary because she was a high achiever at a young age and was very independent. She did not make it into AAP and was stuck. It was awful. She was ignored basically for the last 2-3 years and the expectations for her were so low that now her own drive and motivation for school is low. We placed her in all honors classes in middle school so thankfully she isn’t with those kids anymore.

It actually sounds like your child has inattentive ADHD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is your principal's fault. Not all elementary schools put all of the IEP kids in one classroom. We've been in two FCPS elementaries. The first one spread all of the special ed children throughout multiple classrooms (and had a separate autism program) and the second one put them all together (presumably to make it easier on the special ed teacher). As a parent of NT children, I much preferred having them spread out throughout multiple classrooms, but I am sure parents of special ed children prefer to have one classroom so the teacher is with their child all day. I don't think there is a winning situation here.

As a mom of a kid with an IEP - no I don’t want them all in the same room. It is chaotic with all the comings and goings. Principals do it that way because it easier. It is technically not allowed.

It also doesn’t allow the IEP kids to make friends with other kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is your principal's fault. Not all elementary schools put all of the IEP kids in one classroom. We've been in two FCPS elementaries. The first one spread all of the special ed children throughout multiple classrooms (and had a separate autism program) and the second one put them all together (presumably to make it easier on the special ed teacher). As a parent of NT children, I much preferred having them spread out throughout multiple classrooms, but I am sure parents of special ed children prefer to have one classroom so the teacher is with their child all day. I don't think there is a winning situation here.

As a mom of a kid with an IEP - no I don’t want them all in the same room. It is chaotic with all the comings and goings. Principals do it that way because it easier. It is technically not allowed.

It also doesn’t allow the IEP kids to make friends with other kids.

How is it “technically not allowed”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child was always in the inclusion class in elementary because she was a high achiever at a young age and was very independent. She did not make it into AAP and was stuck. It was awful. She was ignored basically for the last 2-3 years and the expectations for her were so low that now her own drive and motivation for school is low. We placed her in all honors classes in middle school so thankfully she isn’t with those kids anymore.

This is a trope at this point. Stop blaming SPED kids for your child’s lack of attention and motivation. “Those kids” are my kids and I think ALL kids deserve attention. It’s the adults with lack of funding that caused your kid to be ignored and become jaded. Just stop.

Is it a trope? When my DC was in elementary school they put all the IEPs in one class with a dedicated SpEd teacher and it was a mess. My DC was pretty bright, super nice and an easy kid who didn’t act out. That class was so far behind the other classes in their grade. The behavior challenges were scary and disruptive. I was pretty frustrated. After 2 years of this, I didn’t think twice about sending her to the center school for AAP. I hear all the time that classes need super helpful, bright students like my kid to balance out, and from my perspective it’s wildly unfair to the super helpful, nice, and bright kids. I keep on hearing the same trope that it’s good for my child, but I don’t buy it. She thrived in AAP.

Sadly if you’re not Special Ed or Advanced then FCPS is not really the place for you. This is true for most public school systems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is your principal's fault. Not all elementary schools put all of the IEP kids in one classroom. We've been in two FCPS elementaries. The first one spread all of the special ed children throughout multiple classrooms (and had a separate autism program) and the second one put them all together (presumably to make it easier on the special ed teacher). As a parent of NT children, I much preferred having them spread out throughout multiple classrooms, but I am sure parents of special ed children prefer to have one classroom so the teacher is with their child all day. I don't think there is a winning situation here.

As a mom of a kid with an IEP - no I don’t want them all in the same room. It is chaotic with all the comings and goings. Principals do it that way because it easier. It is technically not allowed.

It also doesn’t allow the IEP kids to make friends with other kids.

How is it “technically not allowed”?

Putting all the kids into one gen ed class is not really inclusive or least restrictive. Kids with IEPs are supposed to be balanced out across the gen ed classes. The lack of SPED teachers has lead to “inclusion classes” which creates a class that is more SPED then gen ed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child was always in the inclusion class in elementary because she was a high achiever at a young age and was very independent. She did not make it into AAP and was stuck. It was awful. She was ignored basically for the last 2-3 years and the expectations for her were so low that now her own drive and motivation for school is low. We placed her in all honors classes in middle school so thankfully she isn’t with those kids anymore.

This is a trope at this point. Stop blaming SPED kids for your child’s lack of attention and motivation. “Those kids” are my kids and I think ALL kids deserve attention. It’s the adults with lack of funding that caused your kid to be ignored and become jaded. Just stop.

Is it a trope? When my DC was in elementary school they put all the IEPs in one class with a dedicated SpEd teacher and it was a mess. My DC was pretty bright, super nice and an easy kid who didn’t act out. That class was so far behind the other classes in their grade. The behavior challenges were scary and disruptive. I was pretty frustrated. After 2 years of this, I didn’t think twice about sending her to the center school for AAP. I hear all the time that classes need super helpful, bright students like my kid to balance out, and from my perspective it’s wildly unfair to the super helpful, nice, and bright kids. I keep on hearing the same trope that it’s good for my child, but I don’t buy it. She thrived in AAP.

I think it’s misplaced anger to blame any deficit in your child on a SPED child who has behavior problems. Blame the adults with rigid laws. Least restrictive environment has been used to cover up for understaffing and its not fair for any of the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is your principal's fault. Not all elementary schools put all of the IEP kids in one classroom. We've been in two FCPS elementaries. The first one spread all of the special ed children throughout multiple classrooms (and had a separate autism program) and the second one put them all together (presumably to make it easier on the special ed teacher). As a parent of NT children, I much preferred having them spread out throughout multiple classrooms, but I am sure parents of special ed children prefer to have one classroom so the teacher is with their child all day. I don't think there is a winning situation here.

As a mom of a kid with an IEP - no I don’t want them all in the same room. It is chaotic with all the comings and goings. Principals do it that way because it easier. It is technically not allowed.

It also doesn’t allow the IEP kids to make friends with other kids.

How is it “technically not allowed”?

Putting all the kids into one gen ed class is not really inclusive or least restrictive. Kids with IEPs are supposed to be balanced out across the gen ed classes. The lack of SPED teachers has lead to “inclusion classes” which creates a class that is more SPED then gen ed.

OP Here: Do you know if any place I could get FCPS guidance on inclusion as a parent? Someone told me the max was 14 IEP students per class, that seems like a lot, not sure where the number came from. Plus one teacher here says they have 17 kids with an IEP in middle school, so I am not sure if that is the correct number.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is your principal's fault. Not all elementary schools put all of the IEP kids in one classroom. We've been in two FCPS elementaries. The first one spread all of the special ed children throughout multiple classrooms (and had a separate autism program) and the second one put them all together (presumably to make it easier on the special ed teacher). As a parent of NT children, I much preferred having them spread out throughout multiple classrooms, but I am sure parents of special ed children prefer to have one classroom so the teacher is with their child all day. I don't think there is a winning situation here.

As a mom of a kid with an IEP - no I don’t want them all in the same room. It is chaotic with all the comings and goings. Principals do it that way because it easier. It is technically not allowed.

It also doesn’t allow the IEP kids to make friends with other kids.

How is it “technically not allowed”?

Putting all the kids into one gen ed class is not really inclusive or least restrictive. Kids with IEPs are supposed to be balanced out across the gen ed classes. The lack of SPED teachers has lead to “inclusion classes” which creates a class that is more SPED then gen ed.

OP Here: Do you know if any place I could get FCPS guidance on inclusion as a parent? Someone told me the max was 14 IEP students per class, that seems like a lot, not sure where the number came from. Plus one teacher here says they have 17 kids with an IEP in middle school, so I am not sure if that is the correct number.

Fairfax SEPTA might be able to help. (Special Ed PTA) https://fairfaxcountysepta.org/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is your principal's fault. Not all elementary schools put all of the IEP kids in one classroom. We've been in two FCPS elementaries. The first one spread all of the special ed children throughout multiple classrooms (and had a separate autism program) and the second one put them all together (presumably to make it easier on the special ed teacher). As a parent of NT children, I much preferred having them spread out throughout multiple classrooms, but I am sure parents of special ed children prefer to have one classroom so the teacher is with their child all day. I don't think there is a winning situation here.

As a mom of a kid with an IEP - no I don’t want them all in the same room. It is chaotic with all the comings and goings. Principals do it that way because it easier. It is technically not allowed.

It also doesn’t allow the IEP kids to make friends with other kids.

How is it “technically not allowed”?

Putting all the kids into one gen ed class is not really inclusive or least restrictive. Kids with IEPs are supposed to be balanced out across the gen ed classes. The lack of SPED teachers has lead to “inclusion classes” which creates a class that is more SPED then gen ed.

OP Here: Do you know if any place I could get FCPS guidance on inclusion as a parent? Someone told me the max was 14 IEP students per class, that seems like a lot, not sure where the number came from. Plus one teacher here says they have 17 kids with an IEP in middle school, so I am not sure if that is the correct number.

There could be different numbers based on grade level and if the class is team taught or not. I don’t think the county or any educator wants large numbers of IEPs in one class, I don’t think anyone thinks that is good for any of the kids. I think a lack of SPED teachers and funding for SPED programs has created the situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is your principal's fault. Not all elementary schools put all of the IEP kids in one classroom. We've been in two FCPS elementaries. The first one spread all of the special ed children throughout multiple classrooms (and had a separate autism program) and the second one put them all together (presumably to make it easier on the special ed teacher). As a parent of NT children, I much preferred having them spread out throughout multiple classrooms, but I am sure parents of special ed children prefer to have one classroom so the teacher is with their child all day. I don't think there is a winning situation here.

As a mom of a kid with an IEP - no I don’t want them all in the same room. It is chaotic with all the comings and goings. Principals do it that way because it easier. It is technically not allowed.

It also doesn’t allow the IEP kids to make friends with other kids.

How is it “technically not allowed”?

Putting all the kids into one gen ed class is not really inclusive or least restrictive. Kids with IEPs are supposed to be balanced out across the gen ed classes. The lack of SPED teachers has lead to “inclusion classes” which creates a class that is more SPED then gen ed.

OP Here: Do you know if any place I could get FCPS guidance on inclusion as a parent? Someone told me the max was 14 IEP students per class, that seems like a lot, not sure where the number came from. Plus one teacher here says they have 17 kids with an IEP in middle school, so I am not sure if that is the correct number.

Fairfax SEPTA might be able to help. (Special Ed PTA) https://fairfaxcountysepta.org/

+1 for SEPTA. Also check the Kids with Special Needs board. Lots of families there are ones with kids who have learning disabilities, AHDH, etc.

[Anonymous]

There aren’t enough teachers. If enough parent complain about the class or if there is danger in the classroom, they will add an aide. Usually a monitor or instructional aide to make sure nobody gets hurt. But it has to get baaaad.