How are students supposed to build good extracurriculars when everything is impossible to join?

[Anonymous]

College admission is crazy. Have your kid do what they love. Don't have them join things just to put it on a resume. This is bad for them and bad for the group they join. I know kids who had incredible grades, incredible ECs, and being from NOVA just counted against them. One kid asked me what else they could have done and felt completely defeated. Not totally in jest I told them the schools wanted them, but from rural Iowa. The kid ended up at a great school, just not what the school they initially wanted.
Again, have your kid do what THEY love. Not what you or they think will look good on a resume.

[Anonymous]

Well it is the same way in college so they can get used to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is one of the main reason parents pay for private school. They will make sure your child has every EC opportunity. That plus grade inflation + poetic recommendations = T20 admissions.

We need regular sized public schools. 500-750 students. Insane we've let these massive schools be developed!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know how people get national championships in anything or get internships in NASA. Everything is impossible to join in the high schools here. You can’t make the high school JV swim team if you haven’t swam since 6. Band, model un, and robotics are all very selective too. I don’t know how people are easily able to get straight As and easily achieve in all the extracurriculars here.

It’s frustrating because colleges know NOVA is a wealthy region, so they have high expectations. But they don’t care about how hard it is to get anything here. The people who are varsity sports captains and also somehow started clubs or did research just seem like Jesus to me.

Anecdotally based on the one student I know who got this, they were scary smart and driven, even as a freshman. Plus they had a relative who worked there.

Some of these things are easier in private/Catholic schools or the not-so-wealthy public high schools, so the smaller environments that are acquired either by virtue of having a lot of money or none at all.

The bolded is one of the reasons a lot of middle class parents feel so defeated these days. You will work hard to be able to afford to live in a "good" public school district, and you will struggle to save money for college while also paying for a house in said school district and saving for your own retirement, which for many middle class families means forgoing a lot of other stuff. And then your kid will wind up in a total rat race in HS, competing against both all the other middle class kids and the cohort of truly wealthy kids at the school for sports, ECs, internships, APs, teacher recs, etc, with the wealthy kids having massive advantages because their parents got them a private lacrosse trainer in middle school and they've been doing French immersion since they were 4 or whatever. Then when it's time for college, these middle class kids are mostly not accomplished or "pointy" enough for top college admissions even if you've spent years trying to help your kid become as accomplished as possible, and their options will be state schools or small, lesser known SLACs, both of which will expect you to be full pay because you are not poor enough to qualify for any kind of aid except loans. And even those state schools and lesser known SLACS have sometimes been competitive in recent years because there are also plenty of full pay rich kids who don't want the striver culture of top schools and wind up aiming for these as well.

It's frustrating to people because they feel like they've done precisely what they were "supposed" to do and it will only bite them in the a$$. Their kids are stressed and disappointed and have often been deprived of having a more normal, rewarding adolescence building friendships and exploring what they might actually want to do with their lives, while they were striving, striving, striving for a more upper class lifestyle. And far from feeling closer to financial security for their kids, they feel farther from it, having sunk so much money and energy into winning prizes that will remain out of reach. It's not worth it but a lot of families don't realize this until their kid is a junior in high school.

I don't know if this is a thing outside the DC area. Probably? But I think it's particularly bad here because there are so many people in this area who were the smart, ambitious middle class kids in their high school class, and got into top schools based entirely on just being smart and reasonably hard working, and maybe playing one or two sports that did not require them to play a decade of travel sports in order to make varsity. But that's not a thing any more, the entire landscape changed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you’re overestimating the importance of stellar ECs for anything other than the most elite college admissions.

On the other side of the ledger, private school parents on here saying that their schools don’t have grade inflation are also wrong (just look at the average GPAs) on the profiles for private schools, where B+ is the norm) and kids from the best privates aren’t getting into top colleges because the schools allow them to pad ECs. It’s because they practice selective admissions and the typical student arrives with innate abilities and scores higher on standardized tests etc.

Private schools aren’t not winning the elite college admissions battle because their kids have more impressive ECs. Nope.

+1

Almost private schools have pools of students who are a near certain T20 admit.

1. They offer scholarships to students who are going to do great in T20 admissions - high performing athletes, high performing students in various academic fields, low income/minority students who do very well academically, etc.

2. Students whose parents attended T20, are rich and spend $100k+ on admissions.

These are the students who are going to have the same outcomes wherever they study public or private. These may represent 25% of the student body. The other 75% of private schools students are going to have the same exact outcome if they studied in public.

My child was offered a scholarship because a coach noted DC's performance at an academic competition and wanted DC to be part of their team. We declined. DC now at a HYPSM.

My neighbor's kid was an exceptional athlete and was recruited at a T20 for a sport. She was offered a scholarship at a private school starting in 10th grade and she accepted that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you’re overestimating the importance of stellar ECs for anything other than the most elite college admissions.

On the other side of the ledger, private school parents on here saying that their schools don’t have grade inflation are also wrong (just look at the average GPAs) on the profiles for private schools, where B+ is the norm) and kids from the best privates aren’t getting into top colleges because the schools allow them to pad ECs. It’s because they practice selective admissions and the typical student arrives with innate abilities and scores higher on standardized tests etc.

Private schools aren’t not winning the elite college admissions battle because their kids have more impressive ECs. Nope.

The top private schools require kids to have all As for admission in middle school or for 9th grade. Then these kids go on to graduate in classes with an average GPA of 3.5 and an average SAT of 1500 and generally 5's on the APs. How to you propose "grade deflating" those kids more? Since apparently you think an average of 3.5 is "inflated"? You want to give kids C's in classes that they get 5's on the AP exam in? You want to teach to an average GPA of 3.0 while the cohort has an average SAT of 1500? Do tell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is one of the main reason parents pay for private school. They will make sure your child has every EC opportunity. That plus grade inflation + poetic recommendations = T20 admissions.

We need regular sized public schools. 500-750 students. Insane we've let these massive schools be developed!

A public high school with 500 students would be very poor by school standards. Even in a reasonably UMC suburb. You're looking at really minimal AP options and an almost non-existent sports infrastructure. The only way you can find successful publics at this size is in big cities where you have magnet schools. Like School Without Walls in DC is around 600 students I think. But that's because the school is essentially just a G&T program for the district housed in a separate school. It's not at the top of a high school pyramid with elementary and middle schools feeding into it. It can offer higher level programming because they've selected only students who can handle it, which means they don't have to offer remedial or even standard programming. And even Walls has pretty minimal sports and EC offerings for a high school -- it's not a great school for a true student-athlete who excels at both, unless they have wealthy parents who can pay for private sports opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Scouting - takes years but one of the best ECs if your DS/DD can get to Eagle. Bonus: do a great community service project and you have lots to write about in supplementals.

Scouting does not get you into top schools. And most liberal families here hate scouting for obvious reasons

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know how people get national championships in anything or get internships in NASA. Everything is impossible to join in the high schools here. You can’t make the high school JV swim team if you haven’t swam since 6. Band, model un, and robotics are all very selective too. I don’t know how people are easily able to get straight As and easily achieve in all the extracurriculars here.

It’s frustrating because colleges know NOVA is a wealthy region, so they have high expectations. But they don’t care about how hard it is to get anything here. The people who are varsity sports captains and also somehow started clubs or did research just seem like Jesus to me.

You have to put in the time to get good at something. Showing up at high school and expecting to be proficient at something without putting forth an effort ahead of time isn't reasonable. It also shows that you have a sincere interest in something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is just untrue, OP. Be careful about adopting a defeatist attitude. If your kid wants to compete for and do the same activities that everyone else is vying for, then yes it can be tough to get in, but colleges do not care that you have the cookie cutter resume. They just want to see that your kid is involved with *something* they are passionate about. For example, if there is a cause they care about deeply they can volunteer and do some good for that organization. They can play an instrument or join a chorus or other community arts group, and it doesn't even have to be the competitive group. They can get an actual job after school or during the summer. The point is to be engaged in something they care about and where they can demonstrate initiative, responsibility, or skill.

Being mediocre in everything you do isn’t compelling for admissions officers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you’re overestimating the importance of stellar ECs for anything other than the most elite college admissions.

On the other side of the ledger, private school parents on here saying that their schools don’t have grade inflation are also wrong (just look at the average GPAs) on the profiles for private schools, where B+ is the norm) and kids from the best privates aren’t getting into top colleges because the schools allow them to pad ECs. It’s because they practice selective admissions and the typical student arrives with innate abilities and scores higher on standardized tests etc.

Private schools aren’t not winning the elite college admissions battle because their kids have more impressive ECs. Nope.

The top private schools require kids to have all As for admission in middle school or for 9th grade. Then these kids go on to graduate in classes with an average GPA of 3.5 and an average SAT of 1500 and generally 5's on the APs. How to you propose "grade deflating" those kids more? Since apparently you think an average of 3.5 is "inflated"? You want to give kids C's in classes that they get 5's on the AP exam in? You want to teach to an average GPA of 3.0 while the cohort has an average SAT of 1500? Do tell.

Well, for starters they’re aren’t any private schools—at least not in the DMV—where the average SAT is 1500.

Beyond that, if you looked at the average GPAs of private schools in the DMV over the years and decades you’d see that they’ve steadily gone up. That’s the very definition of grade inflation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you’re overestimating the importance of stellar ECs for anything other than the most elite college admissions.

On the other side of the ledger, private school parents on here saying that their schools don’t have grade inflation are also wrong (just look at the average GPAs) on the profiles for private schools, where B+ is the norm) and kids from the best privates aren’t getting into top colleges because the schools allow them to pad ECs. It’s because they practice selective admissions and the typical student arrives with innate abilities and scores higher on standardized tests etc.

Private schools aren’t not winning the elite college admissions battle because their kids have more impressive ECs. Nope.

The top private schools require kids to have all As for admission in middle school or for 9th grade. Then these kids go on to graduate in classes with an average GPA of 3.5 and an average SAT of 1500 and generally 5's on the APs. How to you propose "grade deflating" those kids more? Since apparently you think an average of 3.5 is "inflated"? You want to give kids C's in classes that they get 5's on the AP exam in? You want to teach to an average GPA of 3.0 while the cohort has an average SAT of 1500? Do tell.

Lol. I attended a non-DMV private where ~30% of the class went on to Ivy or Ivy-equivalent schools.

Our valedictorian graduated with a 3.6 GPA.

If the average GPA is 3.5, kids either (a) aren’t being challenged enough, or (b) are receiving participation trophies.

[Anonymous]

You’ll realize towards the end of the cycle how wasteful it was to fret about t-something colleges. There are great colleges that stay under the radar because of the noise around t-20. Teach your kid that the college is not the endgame. Wasting youth on winning meaningless competitions is a travesty when there are colleges with great outcomes that will welcome them with open arms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you’re overestimating the importance of stellar ECs for anything other than the most elite college admissions.

On the other side of the ledger, private school parents on here saying that their schools don’t have grade inflation are also wrong (just look at the average GPAs) on the profiles for private schools, where B+ is the norm) and kids from the best privates aren’t getting into top colleges because the schools allow them to pad ECs. It’s because they practice selective admissions and the typical student arrives with innate abilities and scores higher on standardized tests etc.

Private schools aren’t not winning the elite college admissions battle because their kids have more impressive ECs. Nope.

The top private schools require kids to have all As for admission in middle school or for 9th grade. Then these kids go on to graduate in classes with an average GPA of 3.5 and an average SAT of 1500 and generally 5's on the APs. How to you propose "grade deflating" those kids more? Since apparently you think an average of 3.5 is "inflated"? You want to give kids C's in classes that they get 5's on the AP exam in? You want to teach to an average GPA of 3.0 while the cohort has an average SAT of 1500? Do tell.

Lol. I attended a non-DMV private where ~30% of the class went on to Ivy or Ivy-equivalent schools.

Our valedictorian graduated with a 3.6 GPA.

If the average GPA is 3.5, kids either (a) aren’t being challenged enough, or (b) are receiving participation trophies.

When did you graduate and what school? I guarantee the valedictorian doesn't have a 3.6 now.

[Anonymous]

Choose something in the community (real world) in addition to a few non-competitive clubs at at school.