Deep blue NY failing to educate public school children

[Anonymous]

I don't care about politics or about red/purple/blue states. I care a lot about education - for every kid, not just mine.

Mississippi went back to tried-and-true, ignored political crap, ignored fads, and their younger kids are totally outperforming.

Results do matter and MS has now shown years of gains across the board, raising both floor and ceiling. Other states should do this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mississippi has shown the way. Direct instruction using tried and true methods with clear science (example: Phonics), avoid fads (whole language, balanced literacy, and other Lucy Calkins crap). Teach kids he material directly, do not think they will learn by osmosis.

Mississippi was 30th in the nation in 2024

Mississippi used to be rock bottom:
Over the last 10 years, not only have Mississippi’s average reading scores improved but so has performance among student subgroups. It’s not just that Mississippi has raised the floor, it has also raised the ceiling, writes Kelsey Piper for The Argument on Substack. “They haven’t just caught up to your state; they are now wildly outperforming it.”

While Mississippi fourth graders outperformed Minnesota fourth graders in reading on the most recent National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP), their average reading score is also significantly higher than it was in 2013. Minnesota’s, unfortunately, is significantly lower than it was in 2013.

Among students of color served, the average reading score for Mississippi black fourth graders is significantly higher than 10 years ago, whereas the average score for Minnesota black fourth graders is significantly lower than it was 10 years ago

If they are testing only the 4th graders who have been promoted- meaning only kids who are on grade level in math and reading- and comparing them to another state who does not hold kids back, is that an accurate representation of the students?

I love the idea that kids being help back are required to receive remediation. I do wonder how that works with the ELD and SPED population. I know at my kid's elementary school, 80% of the kids receive English language instruction and many came after elementary started- so what happens if a kid comes in 1st or second grade and is not on grade level by 3rd partly due to the language issue. Are they also held back?

Have there been long-term studies to show what happens to those kids who are held back? Do they make it to grade level and maintain that level through high school?

I know that Maryland is trying some version of this and am really curious about the details!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mississippi has shown the way. Direct instruction using tried and true methods with clear science (example: Phonics), avoid fads (whole language, balanced literacy, and other Lucy Calkins crap). Teach kids he material directly, do not think they will learn by osmosis.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mississippi has shown the way. Direct instruction using tried and true methods with clear science (example: Phonics), avoid fads (whole language, balanced literacy, and other Lucy Calkins crap). Teach kids he material directly, do not think they will learn by osmosis.

Mississippi was 30th in the nation in 2024

Mississippi used to be rock bottom:
Over the last 10 years, not only have Mississippi’s average reading scores improved but so has performance among student subgroups. It’s not just that Mississippi has raised the floor, it has also raised the ceiling, writes Kelsey Piper for The Argument on Substack. “They haven’t just caught up to your state; they are now wildly outperforming it.”

While Mississippi fourth graders outperformed Minnesota fourth graders in reading on the most recent National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP), their average reading score is also significantly higher than it was in 2013. Minnesota’s, unfortunately, is significantly lower than it was in 2013.

Among students of color served, the average reading score for Mississippi black fourth graders is significantly higher than 10 years ago, whereas the average score for Minnesota black fourth graders is significantly lower than it was 10 years ago

Honestly well done Mississippi. That state deserves a huge amount of credit for that improvement.

[Anonymous]

Every major city in this country has the same results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mississippi has shown the way. Direct instruction using tried and true methods with clear science (example: Phonics), avoid fads (whole language, balanced literacy, and other Lucy Calkins crap). Teach kids he material directly, do not think they will learn by osmosis.

Mississippi was 30th in the nation in 2024

Mississippi used to be rock bottom:
Over the last 10 years, not only have Mississippi’s average reading scores improved but so has performance among student subgroups. It’s not just that Mississippi has raised the floor, it has also raised the ceiling, writes Kelsey Piper for The Argument on Substack. “They haven’t just caught up to your state; they are now wildly outperforming it.”

While Mississippi fourth graders outperformed Minnesota fourth graders in reading on the most recent National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP), their average reading score is also significantly higher than it was in 2013. Minnesota’s, unfortunately, is significantly lower than it was in 2013.

Among students of color served, the average reading score for Mississippi black fourth graders is significantly higher than 10 years ago, whereas the average score for Minnesota black fourth graders is significantly lower than it was 10 years ago

If they are testing only the 4th graders who have been promoted- meaning only kids who are on grade level in math and reading- and comparing them to another state who does not hold kids back, is that an accurate representation of the students?

I love the idea that kids being help back are required to receive remediation. I do wonder how that works with the ELD and SPED population. I know at my kid's elementary school, 80% of the kids receive English language instruction and many came after elementary started- so what happens if a kid comes in 1st or second grade and is not on grade level by 3rd partly due to the language issue. Are they also held back?

Have there been long-term studies to show what happens to those kids who are held back? Do they make it to grade level and maintain that level through high school?

I know that Maryland is trying some version of this and am really curious about the details!

Good Point!

[Anonymous]

In US, trying to figure out what the homework is, is the homework.
Bring back books and go page by page. Summer school for the kids who need help. Hold kids back 1-2 years if needed from grade 1-9. Don't push everyone into high school. Where are the trade schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In US, trying to figure out what the homework is, is the homework.
Bring back books and go page by page. Summer school for the kids who need help. Hold kids back 1-2 years if needed from grade 1-9. Don't push everyone into high school. Where are the trade schools?

There are plenty of trade schools. A kindergarten full of 10 year olds would be uncomfortable. But that is what is necessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mississippi has shown the way. Direct instruction using tried and true methods with clear science (example: Phonics), avoid fads (whole language, balanced literacy, and other Lucy Calkins crap). Teach kids he material directly, do not think they will learn by osmosis.

Um. Phonics is a fad.

[Anonymous]

NP. Most progressive policies on education are abject failures. Classical blue liberal education did work very well, but the progressives have taken over and are destroying education across the country.

When MAGA states are showing far more improvement than deep blue areas, you know the progressives have failed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Asian kids in NY are still doing great. We probably should just do whatever it is that they and their families do. Don’t breed with morons, make your kids study, etc.

It’s called the homework table from an article in the New York Times profiling Vietnamese family (first gen) whose children all made it to Stuyvesant High (wiki the high school for context)

- you would need to give up your promotion (dinner and cohesion at table every night is the key was thesis of piece)
-you would need to give up your ego (you nor your child are very bright: extreme hard work is the emphasis)
-you would need to join a church or stay in touch/physically enmeshed with extended family for free tutoring
-you would have multiple kids but get the eldest ‘right’ and the rest of your kids will follow with free tutoring

In the end it’s that ‘homework table’ that got it right - backed by a ton of social power and community cohesion.

Folks half my upper class neighbors are going through divorces!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mississippi has shown the way. Direct instruction using tried and true methods with clear science (example: Phonics), avoid fads (whole language, balanced literacy, and other Lucy Calkins crap). Teach kids he material directly, do not think they will learn by osmosis.

Um. Phonics is a fad.

Not even close to true. Numerous large studies with good controls show that it works reliably for all students. Dyslexic students would benefit from a particular Phonics implementation, that is known as Orton-Gillingham.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. Most progressive policies on education are abject failures. Classical blue liberal education did work very well, but the progressives have taken over and are destroying education across the country.

When MAGA states are showing far more improvement than deep blue areas, you know the progressives have failed.

This is mostly correct. It is not about red or blue. Education is not a partisan issue. It is about using tried-and-true methods that actually work for most/all kids, not “progressive education” which has not been tested in reproducible large studies with good controls. Lucy Calkins was “educationally progressive”, but an abject failure at teaching and at students learning

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. Most progressive policies on education are abject failures. Classical blue liberal education did work very well, but the progressives have taken over and are destroying education across the country.

When MAGA states are showing far more improvement than deep blue areas, you know the progressives have failed.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't care about politics or about red/purple/blue states. I care a lot about education - for every kid, not just mine.

Mississippi went back to tried-and-true, ignored political crap, ignored fads, and their younger kids are totally outperforming.

Results do matter and MS has now shown years of gains across the board, raising both floor and ceiling. Other states should do this.

Well sorry but we prefer the current trend of gender ideology and other stupidity over tried and true stuff, otherwise how can we get confused and lost adolescents who hate themselves and their own kind?!