W&L outside T20

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is going on at W&L? Even with the change in ranking formula, why are they outside the T20? This seems odd given the Johnson scholarship should help with the social mobility score. What gives?

Remove the service academies ( too niche for the average SLAC applicant) and W&L is right there. It has been a perennial T15 before the USNWR methodology change.

Great school!

Are you interested in W&L? Reason for your question? Or are you just a concern troll?

My question is why isn’t W&L doing better WITH the methodology change? It seems like they should have the resources to keep up with the push for increased social mobility. Can they not increase the Johnson program and crack the top 10, or are they simply failing to attract URM and Pell kids?

The reality is that there really aren't a lot of superstar black and hispanic students out there. And those that are out there will certainly choose Harvard or MIT or Duke over Washington and Lee. It's slim pickings, and Washington and Lee isn't competing for the best black students. They go elsewhere.

How about poor or middle class white kids? One would think the local kids within a 1-2 hour radius would do anything to try to get a Johnson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know any BIPOC kid who wants to go to W&L. For what? White proximity? White validation? There are so many good schools to choose from.

OP - this is the real problem - and I learned it straight from senior faculty. Wash & Lee is too expensive and too Greek (86%) to provide a welcoming, accessible environment for black students. Even if W&L provides full tuition or even a full ride, the Greek activities start on Thursday night and run through Monday day morning. They are so expensive to join that W&L is the only college that includes the cost of Greek participation on its cost of attendance page (it can run up to $15k a year). The result is that the URM, first generation, scholarship students can’t afford to participate so are left in the dining hall, libraries and dorms to find their own activities which leads to a “have” and “have not” class separation. Unless W&L starts covering costs of Greek participation, this will not change.

Also, W&L is now $95,550 a year. There are only 44 Johnson Scholarships for a class of 500. $10k off of $95k for a lot of families is not enough and they go elsewhere, like in-state or where the student receives a better merit award. The school is simply too expensive for a lot of URM families, which is why W&M can attract only 5% black students.

5% of blacks is the average at top schools.

No outliers here percentage wise.

There are Black Greek organizations at w&L too.

[Anonymous]

My daughter is a current student

The W&L president addressed the drop in the rankings at a parents’ weekend Q&A the first year they dropped in the rankings(Fall 2023) from #11 to #20. USNWR used data from the 2016 cohort for it’s Pell graduation numbers for the 2023 rankings. The past rankings they used 2018 cohort. W&L has been making a big effort to increase it’s Pell enrollment over the past 10 years. It’s current numbers are better that what US news is using so the rankings should improve over the next few years.

W&L is now need-blind and all needs met thanks to a very large donation 2 years ago. They started the W&L promise. Through this program, admitted students from families earning less than $150,000 per year receive full tuition without loans. Students from families earning under $75,000 annually also receive support covering room and board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is going on at W&L? Even with the change in ranking formula, why are they outside the T20? This seems odd given the Johnson scholarship should help with the social mobility score. What gives?

Remove the service academies ( too niche for the average SLAC applicant) and W&L is right there. It has been a perennial T15 before the USNWR methodology change.

Great school!

Are you interested in W&L? Reason for your question? Or are you just a concern troll?

My question is why isn’t W&L doing better WITH the methodology change? It seems like they should have the resources to keep up with the push for increased social mobility. Can they not increase the Johnson program and crack the top 10, or are they simply failing to attract URM and Pell kids?

The reality is that there really aren't a lot of superstar black and hispanic students out there. And those that are out there will certainly choose Harvard or MIT or Duke over Washington and Lee. It's slim pickings, and Washington and Lee isn't competing for the best black students. They go elsewhere.

How about poor or middle class white kids? One would think the local kids within a 1-2 hour radius would do anything to try to get a Johnson.

But then they'd be the poor kid at a school where Greek life dominates and they don't have the money to join.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know any BIPOC kid who wants to go to W&L. For what? White proximity? White validation? There are so many good schools to choose from.

OP - this is the real problem - and I learned it straight from senior faculty. Wash & Lee is too expensive and too Greek (86%) to provide a welcoming, accessible environment for black students. Even if W&L provides full tuition or even a full ride, the Greek activities start on Thursday night and run through Monday day morning. They are so expensive to join that W&L is the only college that includes the cost of Greek participation on its cost of attendance page (it can run up to $15k a year). The result is that the URM, first generation, scholarship students can’t afford to participate so are left in the dining hall, libraries and dorms to find their own activities which leads to a “have” and “have not” class separation. Unless W&L starts covering costs of Greek participation, this will not change.

Also, W&L is now $95,550 a year. There are only 44 Johnson Scholarships for a class of 500. $10k off of $95k for a lot of families is not enough and they go elsewhere, like in-state or where the student receives a better merit award. The school is simply too expensive for a lot of URM families, which is why W&M can attract only 5% black students.

My kid goes there and is not Greek by choice and is having a great time socially. She is not “left alone to hang out in the dining hall, library and dorms”

All the greek parties are open to everyone. Several of her roommates are on full aid and have had no issues paying for the sorority dues. The greek organizations can provide grants as well for those who can’t afford it. They also have 2 black fraternities and 2 sororities on campus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is a current student

The W&L president addressed the drop in the rankings at a parents’ weekend Q&A the first year they dropped in the rankings(Fall 2023) from #11 to #20. USNWR used data from the 2016 cohort for it’s Pell graduation numbers for the 2023 rankings. The past rankings they used 2018 cohort. W&L has been making a big effort to increase it’s Pell enrollment over the past 10 years. It’s current numbers are better that what US news is using so the rankings should improve over the next few years.

W&L is now need-blind and all needs met thanks to a very large donation 2 years ago. They started the W&L promise. Through this program, admitted students from families earning less than $150,000 per year receive full tuition without loans. Students from families earning under $75,000 annually also receive support covering room and board.

Interesting, thank you. It’s odd the ranking is still getting worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is going on at W&L? Even with the change in ranking formula, why are they outside the T20? This seems odd given the Johnson scholarship should help with the social mobility score. What gives?

Remove the service academies ( too niche for the average SLAC applicant) and W&L is right there. It has been a perennial T15 before the USNWR methodology change.

Great school!

Are you interested in W&L? Reason for your question? Or are you just a concern troll?

My question is why isn’t W&L doing better WITH the methodology change? It seems like they should have the resources to keep up with the push for increased social mobility. Can they not increase the Johnson program and crack the top 10, or are they simply failing to attract URM and Pell kids?

The reality is that there really aren't a lot of superstar black and hispanic students out there. And those that are out there will certainly choose Harvard or MIT or Duke over Washington and Lee. It's slim pickings, and Washington and Lee isn't competing for the best black students. They go elsewhere.

How about poor or middle class white kids? One would think the local kids within a 1-2 hour radius would do anything to try to get a Johnson.

But then they'd be the poor kid at a school where Greek life dominates and they don't have the money to join.

Is this the case for the Johnson kids? Do they not fit in?