Meaning of math competitons

[Anonymous]

Agree with the Asian American comment. Unless the student made it to a near-IMO level, it's likely going to unfairly reinforce the "another violin/piano-playing, good-at-math, boring robot probably forced by parents" stereotype during admission at highly rejective schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since we're in the the college forum:

The SAT math and AP Calculus has a low ceiling in content, depth, and challenge. AMC is like a super-SAT that finds large differences between students scoring 750-800 in SAT math and 5 in AP Calc BC -- there are far too many of these for the seats in the most rigorous mathematical science college programs, and those SAT/AP scores are not sufficiently predictive for meeting the ability expectations of these programs.

Yet those programs still want to see the SAT scores.

Back when CalTech was test blind, people on here said it was because they were using AMC scores instead. But the faculty hated the system and the school went right back to requiring the SAT/ACT.

So it seems like the SAT is actually measuring something different, and/or there are a lot of kids who CalTech wants who don’t do AMC math.

Agreed. There are quite a few AMC qualifiers (so top scorers on the AMC10 exam) on the "Applying to College" board on Reddit who don't have perfect math SAT scores. I always find this very weird.

It's not weird at all. You can be a deep and fast mathematical thinker and still make silly mistakes from time to time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So putting these comments together, it seems like AMC math covers “an additional curriculum (including discrete math and number theory)” that isn’t taught in school. Kids who are exposed to and study that additional curriculum score better on the AMC than kids who don’t. Also I suppose there might be a tiny number of kids who intuit the additional curriculum? But most people require formal study, which is why kids who pay for private competition math courses dominate competition math. This also explains why kids who score high on the AMC don’t always ace the math section of the SAT.

So if OP’s kid is hitting the ceiling on the SAT/AP, but scoring at the median in the AMC, it’s probably because they haven’t taken the special competition math courses teaching the material covered by the AMC.

You don't need competition math courses. Alcumus is free, and so are other resources. It's not like sports, where you really do need to spend thousands to tens of thousands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So sad that everything’s to be a competition nowadays. Some kids are just more interested in collaborative endeavors than competitive ones. My kid aces her math classes in HS including abstract algebra, calc BC, MVcalc, discrete math, and SAT math … without any tutors or prep class or even studying, but has no interest in competitions. Would rather spend time helping and connecting with others and on her health and hobbies/ECs.

She should go to SUMaC, HCISSiM, MathILY, CanadaUSA Mathcamp, PROMYS, Ross, etc.

[Anonymous]

Another DP with a son who finds math extremely easy and scored perfect on the PSAT and SAT math section with minimal prep. But who finds the AMC tests extremely challenging. Agree that it seems to involve a much higher level of math and that the group being measured is different (most of the kids taking the AMC are the kids who find math super easy - otherwise, not sure that you would waste your time on it).

[Anonymous]

As a parent Asian male. Yes it’s very competitive amc Putnam other math Olympiads. But if you do well and it did help because for my child college math at a top university has been a breeze and his cohort of friends who compete together mostly CA students fared well in recruitment among top quantitative finance firms. I feel if you don’t compete you will not get past those rounds of interviews.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since we're in the the college forum:

The SAT math and AP Calculus has a low ceiling in content, depth, and challenge. AMC is like a super-SAT that finds large differences between students scoring 750-800 in SAT math and 5 in AP Calc BC -- there are far too many of these for the seats in the most rigorous mathematical science college programs, and those SAT/AP scores are not sufficiently predictive for meeting the ability expectations of these programs.

Yet those programs still want to see the SAT scores.

Back when CalTech was test blind, people on here said it was because they were using AMC scores instead. But the faculty hated the system and the school went right back to requiring the SAT/ACT.

So it seems like the SAT is actually measuring something different, and/or there are a lot of kids who CalTech wants who don’t do AMC math.

Agreed. There are quite a few AMC qualifiers (so top scorers on the AMC10 exam) on the "Applying to College" board on Reddit who don't have perfect math SAT scores. I always find this very weird.

Do you mean AIME qualifiers?

I think as with all things, there are probabilities, so any one anecdote doesn't say much.

Some people are sloppy, or slow, or don't have the energy for a day of 2+hrs of testing, which could bring an SAT down below 800 despite knowing the material cold.

AIME qualification only requires about 13-15 correct answers in 75 minutes, and some people we squeeze into the bottom by luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So sad that everything’s to be a competition nowadays. Some kids are just more interested in collaborative endeavors than competitive ones. My kid aces her math classes in HS including abstract algebra, calc BC, MVcalc, discrete math, and SAT math … without any tutors or prep class or even studying, but has no interest in competitions. Would rather spend time helping and connecting with others and on her health and hobbies/ECs.

SAT is a math contest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Math competitions are different math. I have two kids very advanced in math. Taking calculus as freshman. They both have no interest in math competitions. Their equally advanced classmates vary a lot both interest and how well they do on these tests (they are required to participate). They questions are complex math puzzles. Some kids love that stuff, some don’t. It’s more to do with interest in solving long puzzles- not in raw math ability

2-5 minutes problems (AMC) isn't "long" puzzles.

And doing plug-and-chug calculations aren't 'raw math ability"

But of course it's fine to cruise through the core of school math and not go beyond if your interests lie elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So sad that everything’s to be a competition nowadays. Some kids are just more interested in collaborative endeavors than competitive ones. My kid aces her math classes in HS including abstract algebra, calc BC, MVcalc, discrete math, and SAT math … without any tutors or prep class or even studying, but has no interest in competitions. Would rather spend time helping and connecting with others and on her health and hobbies/ECs.

There is a place for everyone. Even your kid. There is nothing sad about competition math. I know kids who really enjoy the challenge and my kid is like yours but just because someone like competition math does not make them uncollaborative or unhealthy.

Some of us have kids whi get anxiety about not getting perfect scores or not understanding things, so focusing on mental health means staying in a comfort zone of easily accessible material.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is the top math student in their high school grade at a “top” private, by grades and teacher statements. In a special class and at the top of that class with relative ease. However, they are not very interested in competition math and tend to score at the median for things like AMC10. I know some kids prep for these tests starting at a very young age… but why such a difference? Anyone know competition math well enough to explain? Definitely not my field.

Private schools are generally known for not having as advanced math students as publics, except a few boarding schools

[Anonymous]

AMC kids do special prep for those exams. They test the ability to solve problems quickly. as well as the ability to learn/memorize the tricks and shortcuts to solving problems. If your kid isn’t generally a great, speedy test taker, she’d need to practice a lot for the AMC.

[Anonymous]

I have a kid doing great as a math student at a top 30 school with zero math competition or any math stuff outside of school. Just likes and is good at math and that’s been enough. If your kid is dying to do math competitions that’s of course fine but a smart and mathy kid is enough unless you are top 10 or bust.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So sad that everything’s to be a competition nowadays. Some kids are just more interested in collaborative endeavors than competitive ones. My kid aces her math classes in HS including abstract algebra, calc BC, MVcalc, discrete math, and SAT math … without any tutors or prep class or even studying, but has no interest in competitions. Would rather spend time helping and connecting with others and on her health and hobbies/ECs.

There is a place for everyone. Even your kid. There is nothing sad about competition math. I know kids who really enjoy the challenge and my kid is like yours but just because someone like competition math does not make them uncollaborative or unhealthy.

Some of us have kids whi get anxiety about not getting perfect scores or not understanding things.

Sounds like your kids were under-challenged in childhood. That's a common recipe for perfectionism in childhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So sad that everything’s to be a competition nowadays. Some kids are just more interested in collaborative endeavors than competitive ones. My kid aces her math classes in HS including abstract algebra, calc BC, MVcalc, discrete math, and SAT math … without any tutors or prep class or even studying, but has no interest in competitions. Would rather spend time helping and connecting with others and on her health and hobbies/ECs.

There is a place for everyone. Even your kid. There is nothing sad about competition math. I know kids who really enjoy the challenge and my kid is like yours but just because someone like competition math does not make them uncollaborative or unhealthy.

Some of us have kids whi get anxiety about not getting perfect scores or not understanding things.

Sounds like your kids were under-challenged in childhood. That's a common recipe for perfectionism in childhood.

Can you please explain what you mean by being under-challenged in childhood and perfectionism in childhood? I quite do not see the link.