Meaning of math competitons

[Anonymous]

My kid is the top math student in their high school grade at a “top” private, by grades and teacher statements. In a special class and at the top of that class with relative ease. However, they are not very interested in competition math and tend to score at the median for things like AMC10. I know some kids prep for these tests starting at a very young age… but why such a difference? Anyone know competition math well enough to explain? Definitely not my field.

[Anonymous]

It's pretty simple. The AMC tests more advanced mathematical ability and a broader and deeper range of content than school does.

It's literally an additional curriculum (including discrete math and number theory) that school doesn't teach until later in high school, college, or never. The problems are more diverse and less exactly like what is seen in practice.

Also, the user group is biased toward higher level of talent. "Median" on AMC is like median on AP exams, not median for all high school students.

Importantly, interest in this material is predictive of interest and success in math-heavy courses majors.

[Anonymous]

Set your kid up with free online resources like Khan academy (regular school) and AoPS Alcumus (math contest), and take a sample quiz on any topic in Prealgebra, Algebra, or Geometry, to see the difference.

Look at the Diagnostic pretest and post-tests on AoPS course pages like Algebra https://artofproblemsolving.com/store/book/intro-algebra-ebook and Number Theory https://artofproblemsolving.com/store/book/intro-number-theory-ebook

[Anonymous]

Since we're in the the college forum:

The SAT math and AP Calculus has a low ceiling in content, depth, and challenge. AMC is like a super-SAT that finds large differences between students scoring 750-800 in SAT math and 5 in AP Calc BC -- there are far too many of these for the seats in the most rigorous mathematical science college programs, and those SAT/AP scores are not sufficiently predictive for meeting the ability expectations of these programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Since we're in the the college forum:

The SAT math and AP Calculus has a low ceiling in content, depth, and challenge. AMC is like a super-SAT that finds large differences between students scoring 750-800 in SAT math and 5 in AP Calc BC -- there are far too many of these for the seats in the most rigorous mathematical science college programs, and those SAT/AP scores are not sufficiently predictive for meeting the ability expectations of these programs.

Yet those programs still want to see the SAT scores.

Back when CalTech was test blind, people on here said it was because they were using AMC scores instead. But the faculty hated the system and the school went right back to requiring the SAT/ACT.

So it seems like the SAT is actually measuring something different, and/or there are a lot of kids who CalTech wants who don’t do AMC math.

[Anonymous]

My son went to a private high school, never did math beyond calc AB (5 on this exam and a 36 math ACT) but never had any interest in additional math in high school. Not a kid to ever do math for fun.

He's now thriving as a junior applied math major at an Ivy after entering college as undecided. So you don't need early exposure to advanced math or competition math to succeed at the higher levels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since we're in the the college forum:

The SAT math and AP Calculus has a low ceiling in content, depth, and challenge. AMC is like a super-SAT that finds large differences between students scoring 750-800 in SAT math and 5 in AP Calc BC -- there are far too many of these for the seats in the most rigorous mathematical science college programs, and those SAT/AP scores are not sufficiently predictive for meeting the ability expectations of these programs.

Yet those programs still want to see the SAT scores.

Back when CalTech was test blind, people on here said it was because they were using AMC scores instead. But the faculty hated the system and the school went right back to requiring the SAT/ACT.

So it seems like the SAT is actually measuring something different, and/or there are a lot of kids who CalTech wants who don’t do AMC math.

Agreed. There are quite a few AMC qualifiers (so top scorers on the AMC10 exam) on the "Applying to College" board on Reddit who don't have perfect math SAT scores. I always find this very weird.

[Anonymous]

Because doing well in a math class such as Calc BC and doing equally well in the AMC10 are two different, though correlated, skills. As long as they put in effort, a student with a 90th–95th percentile intelligence can fully understand most concepts in Calc BC and score very well in their school/AP exams. But the same student would find it nearly impossible to ace an AMC10/12 test even with tons of dedicated practice. They are, unfortunately, not "smart enough" to quickly recognize which of the myriad of mathematical facts/properties are needed to correctly answer an AMC question. Someone with a 98th–99th percentile would be better equipped. Lack of interest in competition math is also a contributing factor.

[Anonymous]

So putting these comments together, it seems like AMC math covers “an additional curriculum (including discrete math and number theory)” that isn’t taught in school. Kids who are exposed to and study that additional curriculum score better on the AMC than kids who don’t. Also I suppose there might be a tiny number of kids who intuit the additional curriculum? But most people require formal study, which is why kids who pay for private competition math courses dominate competition math. This also explains why kids who score high on the AMC don’t always ace the math section of the SAT.

So if OP’s kid is hitting the ceiling on the SAT/AP, but scoring at the median in the AMC, it’s probably because they haven’t taken the special competition math courses teaching the material covered by the AMC.

[Anonymous]

So sad that everything’s to be a competition nowadays. Some kids are just more interested in collaborative endeavors than competitive ones. My kid aces her math classes in HS including abstract algebra, calc BC, MVcalc, discrete math, and SAT math … without any tutors or prep class or even studying, but has no interest in competitions. Would rather spend time helping and connecting with others and on her health and hobbies/ECs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So sad that everything’s to be a competition nowadays. Some kids are just more interested in collaborative endeavors than competitive ones. My kid aces her math classes in HS including abstract algebra, calc BC, MVcalc, discrete math, and SAT math … without any tutors or prep class or even studying, but has no interest in competitions. Would rather spend time helping and connecting with others and on her health and hobbies/ECs.

There is a place for everyone. Even your kid. There is nothing sad about competition math. I know kids who really enjoy the challenge and my kid is like yours but just because someone like competition math does not make them uncollaborative or unhealthy.

[Anonymous]

Math competitions are different math. I have two kids very advanced in math. Taking calculus as freshman. They both have no interest in math competitions. Their equally advanced classmates vary a lot both interest and how well they do on these tests (they are required to participate). They questions are complex math puzzles. Some kids love that stuff, some don’t. It’s more to do with interest in solving long puzzles- not in raw math ability

[Anonymous]

This is OP. Ok that’s clear. Yes DC is 99+ %ile intelligence but just loves what I would call the standard math curriculum, not the tricks and number theory stuff. Has no problem with calculus at age 14. So won’t stress about college, then, sounds like they can be on their own track, which is good.

[Anonymous]

If you are Asian, I recommend that your kid *not* go for competition math and do something different. I say this as an Asian American person myself - kids who do these competitions generally have a hard time standing out from the pack and are viewed as two one-dimensional to AOs, who are never applied math majors.

[Anonymous]

"too" one-dimensional