Russian School of Math for average math kid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do people do RSM only if their kid is super good at math? Our DC is in 3rd, very bright but doesn't love the academic aspect of school and scores in the lower "at grade level" range in math. We think it might be a self-confidence issue (gets bored/doesn't try very hard/refuses help from us). Looking for ways of making them feel better about their academic skills.

Or it might be that math is not her strength and she’s doing her best. She’s not failing so that’s a good thing. If she doesn’t like the academic aspect of school she would probably hate going to another school after being in her school all day.

At this age you can find workbooks and games that you can do together. Or ask her teacher for any suggestions.

I think RSM is fantastic for all ages, and all abilities. In fact, it can make a kid who doesn't love math learn to like it. I think everyone can do well in math.

Uh, my kid spent 7 years in RSM. Totally disagree that it will make a kid who doesn’t love math learn to like it. It is rigorous, repetitive, and frustrating even for kids who like math. Those who don’t will hate it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A struggling student would be placed in the lowest class. Kids are placed based on ability, mine was placed in the highest level when he started and was moved up a grade level a month later.

I’m not sure that last piece of brag was necessary.

Posters keep saying that kids are placed at the same starting point when they are not. Kids are placed based on ability and can be moved easily enough to match their needs. I know a kid who took 6th grade math at RSM as a 7th grader. The kid was in M7H in FCPS and not Algebra 1 so they did not want to be in the Algebra 1 class, which is what RSM recommends for most 7th graders. Others are placed in higher grade levels. The flexibility is one of RSMs strengths.

I think RSM is fantastic for all ages, and all abilities. In fact, it can make a kid who doesn't love math learn to like it. I think everyone can do well in math.

I think that it can provide additional instruction and practice to help a student feel more confident in math. I am sure that there are some kids who will enjoy math once they feel like they are on solid ground in the class. I would guess that most at least stop disliking math, even if they don't enjoy it, once they have some additional confidence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A struggling student would be placed in the lowest class. Kids are placed based on ability, mine was placed in the highest level when he started and was moved up a grade level a month later.

I’m not sure that last piece of brag was necessary.

Posters keep saying that kids are placed at the same starting point when they are not. Kids are placed based on ability and can be moved easily enough to match their needs. I know a kid who took 6th grade math at RSM as a 7th grader. The kid was in M7H in FCPS and not Algebra 1 so they did not want to be in the Algebra 1 class, which is what RSM recommends for most 7th graders. Others are placed in higher grade levels. The flexibility is one of RSMs strengths.

I think RSM is fantastic for all ages, and all abilities. In fact, it can make a kid who doesn't love math learn to like it. I think everyone can do well in math.

I think that it can provide additional instruction and practice to help a student feel more confident in math. I am sure that there are some kids who will enjoy math once they feel like they are on solid ground in the class. I would guess that most at least stop disliking math, even if they don't enjoy it, once they have some additional confidence.

If you read more carefully, you'll see that the standard placement in 3rd was stated for kids who haven't previously done math enrichment because there is math notation and other concepts they wouldn't have seen in public school. If a kid has done other outside math enrichment, then they may have a different placement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do people do RSM only if their kid is super good at math? Our DC is in 3rd, very bright but doesn't love the academic aspect of school and scores in the lower "at grade level" range in math. We think it might be a self-confidence issue (gets bored/doesn't try very hard/refuses help from us). Looking for ways of making them feel better about their academic skills.

I would consider Mathnasium. They gameify things and give out awards. I don't love that aspect of it in theory but can't dispute that it turned my kid's enthusiasm for math around as well as her confidence. And it didn't create a situation where she now only needs rewards to do math. She's an enthusiastic above-average student now who will hang in there through the struggle of a math problem, where this really frustrated her before because she wasn't used to struggling in anything academic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A struggling student would be placed in the lowest class. Kids are placed based on ability, mine was placed in the highest level when he started and was moved up a grade level a month later.

I’m not sure that last piece of brag was necessary.

Posters keep saying that kids are placed at the same starting point when they are not. Kids are placed based on ability and can be moved easily enough to match their needs. I know a kid who took 6th grade math at RSM as a 7th grader. The kid was in M7H in FCPS and not Algebra 1 so they did not want to be in the Algebra 1 class, which is what RSM recommends for most 7th graders. Others are placed in higher grade levels. The flexibility is one of RSMs strengths.

I think RSM is fantastic for all ages, and all abilities. In fact, it can make a kid who doesn't love math learn to like it. I think everyone can do well in math.

I think that it can provide additional instruction and practice to help a student feel more confident in math. I am sure that there are some kids who will enjoy math once they feel like they are on solid ground in the class. I would guess that most at least stop disliking math, even if they don't enjoy it, once they have some additional confidence.

If you read more carefully, you'll see that the standard placement in 3rd was stated for kids who haven't previously done math enrichment because there is math notation and other concepts they wouldn't have seen in public school. If a kid has done other outside math enrichment, then they may have a different placement.

My kid had no outside math enrichment and placed in the top class as a third grader. The evaluator gives the child a series of problems, the child solves each problem and discusses how they solved the problem with the evaluator. The evaluator will provide the child with a different solution option and ask the child to use that method. DS was able to answer their questions, explain his solution, and then answer the new material questions correctly when introduced to it.

He is an outlier, and I understand that. We were looking at math enrichment because he was not challenged in school, not because he needed to solidify his foundational skills. The point is, they evaluate each child and place them according to their abilities and their needs. They will put 7th graders in the 6th grade class, which is more pre-algebra, because that is the class the student is in at MS. They will put a 7th grader in geometry or algebra 2 if that is what the kid is taking in MS. RSM has greater flexibility then AoPS because it has different levels for each grade and will find the class that meets the childs needs.

[Anonymous]

You can try it for a while and if it isn't a fit, quit. No harm in testing the waters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do people do RSM only if their kid is super good at math? Our DC is in 3rd, very bright but doesn't love the academic aspect of school and scores in the lower "at grade level" range in math. We think it might be a self-confidence issue (gets bored/doesn't try very hard/refuses help from us). Looking for ways of making them feel better about their academic skills.

I would consider Mathnasium. They gameify things and give out awards. I don't love that aspect of it in theory but can't dispute that it turned my kid's enthusiasm for math around as well as her confidence. And it didn't create a situation where she now only needs rewards to do math. She's an enthusiastic above-average student now who will hang in there through the struggle of a math problem, where this really frustrated her before because she wasn't used to struggling in anything academic.

+1 I wouldn't put an average math kid in Russian School of Math. RSM classes are large, and while they're well-done, they're not *fun*. Mathnasium is much better for a kid who is looking for basic enrichment, and they have a much smaller student: instructor ratio and prizes and ice cream parties and stuff.

[Anonymous]

Your kid should first do Kumon math. Kids become really quick and accurate at basic calculations.

Too many kids are counting on their fingers or taking way too much time to figure out what is 6 + 8 , 15-7 or 27+59 or 100-73 or 7x 8. In later levels they do multi-digit multiplication, ling division and fractions.

Once my kid was so quick in these calculations it was way easier to solve multi/step problems and word problems. He finished math in class and homework so quickly that then he had more time for RSM / AOPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your kid should first do Kumon math. Kids become really quick and accurate at basic calculations.

Too many kids are counting on their fingers or taking way too much time to figure out what is 6 + 8 , 15-7 or 27+59 or 100-73 or 7x 8. In later levels they do multi-digit multiplication, ling division and fractions.

Once my kid was so quick in these calculations it was way easier to solve multi/step problems and word problems. He finished math in class and homework so quickly that then he had more time for RSM / AOPS.

Kumon is hideous. They don’t even have instruction and charge hundreds of dollars a month for your kid to sit in their center to work on a bunch of worksheets. You can buy the workbooks online and save your money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kid should first do Kumon math. Kids become really quick and accurate at basic calculations.

Too many kids are counting on their fingers or taking way too much time to figure out what is 6 + 8 , 15-7 or 27+59 or 100-73 or 7x 8. In later levels they do multi-digit multiplication, ling division and fractions.

Once my kid was so quick in these calculations it was way easier to solve multi/step problems and word problems. He finished math in class and homework so quickly that then he had more time for RSM / AOPS.

Kumon is hideous. They don’t even have instruction and charge hundreds of dollars a month for your kid to sit in their center to work on a bunch of worksheets. You can buy the workbooks online and save your money.

You get accountability and someone figuring out when you should pass to the next level. You often have to repeat packets at Kumon if you are not accurate and/or not fast enough. They aim to develop automaticity which then frees up working menory to tackle more complex problems.

So yoh go to the center 2 days a week, your kid does 5 or 10 pages of math and they get corrected and the student makes corrections. Or they take a test. The other 5 days you get 5 packets to work on at home and they are checked to make sure they get turned in and checked in at the center (some parents grade them at home their kids make corrections and they are turned in). So the student is doing math 7 days a week.

Parents will pay the same amount of money a month for a once or twice a week karate or gymnastics class.

The best math program is the one that gets done. It is worth it for families but to prep worksheets and research what level of math, what to repeat and to have another person helping with accountability.

My son went from an average math student at the beginning of third grade to above grade level and knows by his teachers and peers as a strong math student by 5th grade after 2 years of kumon. Algebra is so much easier after doing level e of kumon which is all types of fractions.

[Anonymous]

Both Kumon and RSM are awful choices for any kid. They kill and existing love for Math and do not make a kid love it either. I know 100+ kids who did one or the other and they really do not understand or love Math. Just become little robots..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Both Kumon and RSM are awful choices for any kid. They kill and existing love for Math and do not make a kid love it either. I know 100+ kids who did one or the other and they really do not understand or love Math. Just become little robots..

So, what would you recommend?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Both Kumon and RSM are awful choices for any kid. They kill and existing love for Math and do not make a kid love it either. I know 100+ kids who did one or the other and they really do not understand or love Math. Just become little robots..

My kid would disagree with you. I know other families who have kids who would disagree with you. My kid chooses RSM and enjoys it. He knows kids who chose RSM because it gives them more confidence in their math classes at school and helps to reduce stress around a subject that they find hard. We know kids who were at RSM only because their parents wanted to make sure that they were in Algebra as 7th graders and who were happy to drop RSM once they were in 7th grade.

Any activity that a child does not choose can be drudgery. There were kids on my sons baseball and team that clearly did not want to be there, they would refuse to go on the field or swing a bat with one hand or refuse to kick/field the ball. Their parents insisted that the kid loved the activity but everyone saw that was not the case.

The difference with academic enrichment programs is that there are kids who could use the extra help in order to gain the foundational skills that will make the subject easier for them. Kids might not want to do it but the long term benefit is important. Math tends to be an area that is not easily grasped by a lot of kids early in school and some extra help will go a long way to gain confidence and knowledge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kid should first do Kumon math. Kids become really quick and accurate at basic calculations.

Too many kids are counting on their fingers or taking way too much time to figure out what is 6 + 8 , 15-7 or 27+59 or 100-73 or 7x 8. In later levels they do multi-digit multiplication, ling division and fractions.

Once my kid was so quick in these calculations it was way easier to solve multi/step problems and word problems. He finished math in class and homework so quickly that then he had more time for RSM / AOPS.

Kumon is hideous. They don’t even have instruction and charge hundreds of dollars a month for your kid to sit in their center to work on a bunch of worksheets. You can buy the workbooks online and save your money.

You get accountability and someone figuring out when you should pass to the next level. You often have to repeat packets at Kumon if you are not accurate and/or not fast enough. They aim to develop automaticity which then frees up working menory to tackle more complex problems.

So yoh go to the center 2 days a week, your kid does 5 or 10 pages of math and they get corrected and the student makes corrections. Or they take a test. The other 5 days you get 5 packets to work on at home and they are checked to make sure they get turned in and checked in at the center (some parents grade them at home their kids make corrections and they are turned in). So the student is doing math 7 days a week.

Parents will pay the same amount of money a month for a once or twice a week karate or gymnastics class.

The best math program is the one that gets done. It is worth it for families but to prep worksheets and research what level of math, what to repeat and to have another person helping with accountability.

My son went from an average math student at the beginning of third grade to above grade level and knows by his teachers and peers as a strong math student by 5th grade after 2 years of kumon. Algebra is so much easier after doing level e of kumon which is all types of fractions.

I don’t see substantial accountability in going to a center 2x a week and having a teacher grade a packet that nearly every parent is capable of grading. And it’s still on the parent to make sure the kid does the Kumon homework daily. It is true that parents will spend lots of money on kids and that Kumon is not the worst way to spend it. But in the time you spend chauffeuring your kid to from Kumon, you could just as easily be having them do Kumon workbooks at home.

I’ve had kids in Mathnasium, RSM and Kumon at different points in their schooling (and have 1 kid in RSM now and the other in Mathnasium). Kumon was the only one I really didn’t see value in enrolling in.

[Anonymous]

You can complete math enrichment at home, there are workbooks, Beast Academy, Khan academy (free). You can offer up rewards, we used workbooks in the summer that covered science, math, LA, and social studies. DS was allowed 30 extra minutes of screen time if he did 30 minutes of workbook stuff. He liked filling out the sticker chart that came with the workbook and the extra minecraft time.

Some kids respond better to someone other then their parent helping them with school work so maybe Kumon or Mathnasium makes sent. Some kids need more direct instruction so maybe RSM makes sense. Some kids need to be pushed and challenged so RSM honors or the math competition program or AoPS makes sense.

Different kids, different needs, different goals.