The Great Math Race

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the push is due to the stupid box on the common app where HS counselors attest to the applicant having taken the “highest rigor” classes available to them. If you don’t keep up with highest level math classes offered, some colleges will be out of reach, especially for STEM majors.

Not true. Highest rigor is choosing to challenge yourself (honors/AP) not being accelerated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After suffering through keeping up with the fastest trajectory and tutors we finally relented and slowed down the math progression for my youngest.

Honestly now that I have a kid in college, I am not sure it was worth it. Repeating calculus as a freshman and the class is harder than in HS (advanced calculus).

In my view, focusing on statistics is likely more useful today than the advanced tracks if not pursuing computer science or engineering.

High school stats (including AP stats) is a joke. But I agree that statistical literacy is more important than quadratics.

If you can’t learn quadratics, you’re not going to have statistical literacy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But imagine if your son took that calculus class, having never taken calculus in high school? He would really be suffering. It’s almost like high school calculus is even though AP is just meant to prepare them for college calculus

This. Modern college calculus courses at many colleges are paced rapidly on the belief nearly all students had at least 1 year of HS calculus. Students coming into calculus 101/102 de novo are at a huge disadvantage. And those courses commonly are curved, placing those new to calculus at the bottom of the curve.

Calc 1,2,3 has been a standard sequence for at least 40 years

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the push is due to the stupid box on the common app where HS counselors attest to the applicant having taken the “highest rigor” classes available to them. If you don’t keep up with highest level math classes offered, some colleges will be out of reach, especially for STEM majors.

Not true. Highest rigor is choosing to challenge yourself (honors/AP) not being accelerated.

According to this article written by an admissions officer and reviewed by another, acceleration is also taken into account.

https://admitreport.com/blog/what-is-course-rigor

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW my DD is in private in the top very small math class. She is the ONlY kid without a tutor!! It blows my mind. Why be in the class if you need a tutor to do your homework??

Most of those kids will not be STEM majors in college. You need the highest level of rigor in HS to get into a competitive college. Then, you go to college and major in what you like. I was heavily tutored in HS in math and hated every minute of it. But, I was happy as an English major at Yale. It was a means to an end.

Maybe, but it is unproven. I kid got into an HYP from my high school unless they had taken the hardest class in everything. Maybe someone could, but no one is going to be the guinea pig.

This is nonsense. You tortured yourself for no reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But imagine if your son took that calculus class, having never taken calculus in high school? He would really be suffering. It’s almost like high school calculus is even though AP is just meant to prepare them for college calculus

This. Modern college calculus courses at many colleges are paced rapidly on the belief nearly all students had at least 1 year of HS calculus. Students coming into calculus 101/102 de novo are at a huge disadvantage. And those courses commonly are curved, placing those new to calculus at the bottom of the curve.

Calc 1,2,3 has been a standard sequence for at least 40 years

At some colleges, absolutely.

Many others have increased depth and increased pace during the past 40 or so years as % of freshmen with HS Calculus or more advanced math has increased.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the push is due to the stupid box on the common app where HS counselors attest to the applicant having taken the “highest rigor” classes available to them. If you don’t keep up with highest level math classes offered, some colleges will be out of reach, especially for STEM majors.

Not true. Highest rigor is choosing to challenge yourself (honors/AP) not being accelerated.

According to this article written by an admissions officer and reviewed by another, acceleration is also taken into account.

https://admitreport.com/blog/what-is-course-rigor

Why did you link to a page that doesn't support your claim?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But imagine if your son took that calculus class, having never taken calculus in high school? He would really be suffering. It’s almost like high school calculus is even though AP is just meant to prepare them for college calculus

This. Modern college calculus courses at many colleges are paced rapidly on the belief nearly all students had at least 1 year of HS calculus. Students coming into calculus 101/102 de novo are at a huge disadvantage. And those courses commonly are curved, placing those new to calculus at the bottom of the curve.

Calc 1,2,3 has been a standard sequence for at least 40 years

At some colleges, absolutely.

Many others have increased depth and increased pace during the past 40 or so years as % of freshmen with HS Calculus or more advanced math has increased.

Name 3.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But imagine if your son took that calculus class, having never taken calculus in high school? He would really be suffering. It’s almost like high school calculus is even though AP is just meant to prepare them for college calculus

This. Modern college calculus courses at many colleges are paced rapidly on the belief nearly all students had at least 1 year of HS calculus. Students coming into calculus 101/102 de novo are at a huge disadvantage. And those courses commonly are curved, placing those new to calculus at the bottom of the curve.

Calc 1,2,3 has been a standard sequence for at least 40 years

At some colleges, absolutely.

Many others have increased depth and increased pace during the past 40 or so years as % of freshmen with HS Calculus or more advanced math has increased.

My high school calc class used the same text book as my university for Calc 1, 2 and 3. Perhaps the exams were harder, but the content was largely the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But imagine if your son took that calculus class, having never taken calculus in high school? He would really be suffering. It’s almost like high school calculus is even though AP is just meant to prepare them for college calculus

This. Modern college calculus courses at many colleges are paced rapidly on the belief nearly all students had at least 1 year of HS calculus. Students coming into calculus 101/102 de novo are at a huge disadvantage. And those courses commonly are curved, placing those new to calculus at the bottom of the curve.

Calc 1,2,3 has been a standard sequence for at least 40 years

At some colleges, absolutely.

Many others have increased depth and increased pace during the past 40 or so years as % of freshmen with HS Calculus or more advanced math has increased.

My high school calc class used the same text book as my university for Calc 1, 2 and 3. Perhaps the exams were harder, but the content was largely the same.

But high school teaches calc 1 as an AP class over a year, and are largely just teaches to the AP test. College teaches it over one semester and may cover material more in depth. Same with calc 2 and 3.

[Anonymous]

When I went to Stanford I placed directly into linear algebra and multivariable calculus relying solely on a 5 on the Calc AB exam. Today they're requiring a 5 on Calc BC to place into the linear algebra/multivariable course, and requiring everyone else to take a course that covers improper integrals, infinite series, and power series. They're also administering a placement exam to everyone to check whether they can handle the more advanced course.

I do think there's a lot of value in taking at least Calc AB, because it gives you a good sense of what a midterm exam in an introductory math, science, or engineering course might look like, and the process of preparing for the exam helps you get ready for college. Also, for admissions purposes, worth noting that schools like Stanford only grant AP credit for courses like calculus, physics, chemistry, CS, economics, and foreign language. So if you want to distinguish yourself to an admissions committee those are clearly the exams they hold in higher esteem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the push is due to the stupid box on the common app where HS counselors attest to the applicant having taken the “highest rigor” classes available to them. If you don’t keep up with highest level math classes offered, some colleges will be out of reach, especially for STEM majors.

If I may interpose an actual factual question in the debate:

Is this an actual, single yes/no box? What about students who take the highest rigor in some areas but not all?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the push is due to the stupid box on the common app where HS counselors attest to the applicant having taken the “highest rigor” classes available to them. If you don’t keep up with highest level math classes offered, some colleges will be out of reach, especially for STEM majors.

If I may interpose an actual factual question in the debate:

Is this an actual, single yes/no box? What about students who take the highest rigor in some areas but not all?

Usually highest rigor means taking AP and advanced coursework in math, science, and really every academic subject that is available. Did you take regular English 9 and 10, or Honors English? Did you scrape in maths only teaching precalc as a senior, or were you able to take AP math classes?

Unless you are talking about kids apply to art or music schools to study, you know, art or music.

[Anonymous]

As an Asian-American immigrant with no networks, hooks and connections, I always felt that my kids will have a better chance of being successful if they are excelling in education and other hard to learn skills.

The higher the academic barrier to entry for a sought after opportunity, the more the playing field is leveled for my kids.

So, the Great Math Race is the only chance of equality and equity for my kids because they are being judged on their hard-work, intelligence and mastery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FWIW my DD is in private in the top very small math class. She is the ONlY kid without a tutor!! It blows my mind. Why be in the class if you need a tutor to do your homework??

The only time we used a tutor is for a learning disability. They go into the math class they qualify for.