Princeton and test optional

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:all missing the point - it’s for athletic admits

Or other hooked applicants:
music awards;
theater-awards;
Film/TV actors;
individual natl or intl sports awards for non-recruited sports

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:all missing the point - it’s for athletic admits

No, it isn't. The Academic Index system always allowed them to admit athletes with lower SAT scores, even under test-required. That's why it hasn't been an impediment for the Ivies that have gone back to requiring tests.

It's for FGLI and URM. Princeton is uniquely focused among the top schools on getting FGLI and URM students, and TO enables them to do so without having to worry about the data showing that the scoring profile of such students is much lower.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:all missing the point - it’s for athletic admits

No, it isn't. The Academic Index system always allowed them to admit athletes with lower SAT scores, even under test-required. That's why it hasn't been an impediment for the Ivies that have gone back to requiring tests.

It's for FGLI and URM. Princeton is uniquely focused among the top schools on getting FGLI and URM students, and TO enables them to do so without having to worry about the data showing that the scoring profile of such students is much lower.

If that is an important mission for the school and they are serious about achieving it, good for them. If you are against supporting FGLI or URM students, then Princeton does not seem like a good fit for you.

[Anonymous]

Many admissions offices would love to remain test optional because it gives them maximum flexibility and insulates them from scrutiny. But at the same time, they don't want to admit students who throw off their stats by flunking out (or taking 10 years to graduate), and they also get pushback from faculty and administration when that happens. That's not really a risk with subjects that aren't math-heavy - a prospective psych major with a 4.0 high school GPA who has a 1400 or even 1300 SAT is probably going to do fine, even at Princeton. It is a concern with engineering and similar subjects. This seems to be driving the return to requiring tests, which for the most part is not happening even at very selective liberal arts colleges. It makes sense that Princeton is differentiating by major in this way.

[Anonymous]

The SAT is testing a giant cross section of US students headed for college. Princeton's applicant pool is way more academically advanced, so they don't need the test scores. If you're taking MV Calc, why would they need your SAT score?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Strange that Princeton is still test optional.

Went to take a tour and saw the admissions presentation this past week. They said that they announced that they would be TO till 2025 admission season back when they first decided. They told the juniors in the room that they would try to announce the on-going policy soon so that they were able to plan.

So I think they are still test optional bc they initially announced it would be five years--as opposed to renewing or not giving it an end date. That's what I inferred from the presentation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:all missing the point - it’s for athletic admits

No, it isn't. The Academic Index system always allowed them to admit athletes with lower SAT scores, even under test-required. That's why it hasn't been an impediment for the Ivies that have gone back to requiring tests.

It's for FGLI and URM. Princeton is uniquely focused among the top schools on getting FGLI and URM students, and TO enables them to do so without having to worry about the data showing that the scoring profile of such students is much lower.

If that is an important mission for the school and they are serious about achieving it, good for them. If you are against supporting FGLI or URM students, then Princeton does not seem like a good fit for you.

It’s not good that Princeton is now basically closed to unhooked, very high-achieving white MC and UMC kids with great test scores. It’s why folks like Rufo are going after the school and most of America won’t care if it gets taxed into oblivion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:all missing the point - it’s for athletic admits

No, it isn't. The Academic Index system always allowed them to admit athletes with lower SAT scores, even under test-required. That's why it hasn't been an impediment for the Ivies that have gone back to requiring tests.

It's for FGLI and URM. Princeton is uniquely focused among the top schools on getting FGLI and URM students, and TO enables them to do so without having to worry about the data showing that the scoring profile of such students is much lower.

If that is an important mission for the school and they are serious about achieving it, good for them. If you are against supporting FGLI or URM students, then Princeton does not seem like a good fit for you.

It’s not good that Princeton is now basically closed to unhooked, very high-achieving white MC and UMC kids with great test scores. It’s why folks like Rufo are going after the school and most of America won’t care if it gets taxed into oblivion.

But it's not closed to white MC and UMC, unhooked, and very high-achieving kids. That is the description of our tour guide, who is a second year. Our tour guide told us a bit of her story. That is the description of the kid who checked us in, at the admissions desk--he was from NOVA and we chatted about the soccer club on his t-shirt. I guess I could be making bad assumptions. But this is based on knowing a bit about they details they mentioned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:all missing the point - it’s for athletic admits

No, it isn't. The Academic Index system always allowed them to admit athletes with lower SAT scores, even under test-required. That's why it hasn't been an impediment for the Ivies that have gone back to requiring tests.

It's for FGLI and URM. Princeton is uniquely focused among the top schools on getting FGLI and URM students, and TO enables them to do so without having to worry about the data showing that the scoring profile of such students is much lower.

Test-optional was created to provide easier access for URM students. Legacy and athletes happened to follow. Here's the history. https://www.ncan.org/news/693186/Race-Conscious-Admissions-and-Black-Students-The-Past-Present-and-Future.htm

[Anonymous]

The key question is what we mean by “URM.” Because white students are underrepresented among students scoring 1400+ on the SAT. Yet Princeton continues to be more white than Asian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:all missing the point - it’s for athletic admits

No, it isn't. The Academic Index system always allowed them to admit athletes with lower SAT scores, even under test-required. That's why it hasn't been an impediment for the Ivies that have gone back to requiring tests.

It's for FGLI and URM. Princeton is uniquely focused among the top schools on getting FGLI and URM students, and TO enables them to do so without having to worry about the data showing that the scoring profile of such students is much lower.

If that is an important mission for the school and they are serious about achieving it, good for them. If you are against supporting FGLI or URM students, then Princeton does not seem like a good fit for you.

It’s not good that Princeton is now basically closed to unhooked, very high-achieving white MC and UMC kids with great test scores. It’s why folks like Rufo are going after the school and most of America won’t care if it gets taxed into oblivion.

You throw a tantrum because Princeton wants to ensure they can serve some underprivileged students?

Why find a college that wants to serve your student instead of throwing a tantrum and trying to smack around a college that isn't behaving according to your standards?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The key question is what we mean by “URM.” Because white students are underrepresented among students scoring 1400+ on the SAT. Yet Princeton continues to be more white than Asian.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Strange that Princeton is still test optional.

Went to take a tour and saw the admissions presentation this past week. They said that they announced that they would be TO till 2025 admission season back when they first decided. They told the juniors in the room that they would try to announce the on-going policy soon so that they were able to plan.

So I think they are still test optional bc they initially announced it would be five years--as opposed to renewing or not giving it an end date. That's what I inferred from the presentation.

Duke's dean of admissions said something similar a year or two ago. He said that they wanted to see a full cohort or two of test optional kids go through and see how they did before making a decision. Shortly thereafter he announced his retirement so I think he also wanted to leave it to the new Dean to decide, but there is some merit to sticking it out and seeing what happened.

Personally I think it is a really dumb idea. Have everyone submit scores. If you want to ignore them for certain kids, feel free. It is just manipulating the system to allow them to admit FGLI and URM kids without having them drag down averages. If you have to go through such hoops to get them in, perhaps you are trying too hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The key question is what we mean by “URM.” Because white students are underrepresented among students scoring 1400+ on the SAT. Yet Princeton continues to be more white than Asian.

Princeton is test optional at this point. High test stores are great but so are a lot of other things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:all missing the point - it’s for athletic admits

No, it isn't. The Academic Index system always allowed them to admit athletes with lower SAT scores, even under test-required. That's why it hasn't been an impediment for the Ivies that have gone back to requiring tests.

It's for FGLI and URM. Princeton is uniquely focused among the top schools on getting FGLI and URM students, and TO enables them to do so without having to worry about the data showing that the scoring profile of such students is much lower.

Test-optional was created to provide easier access for URM students. Legacy and athletes happened to follow. Here's the history. https://www.ncan.org/news/693186/Race-Conscious-Admissions-and-Black-Students-The-Past-Present-and-Future.htm

Sure - though at Princeton specifically, legacy kids have HIGHER SATs than non-legacy according to this freshman survey of over 500 students (so pretty representative) https://projects.dailyprincetonian.com/frosh-survey-2028/academics.html