Guest player scam?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have full participation (all players RSVPd yes) for our first tournament of the season but the coach or club added players from the team above ours. Now these kids are taking up playing time and a significant amount (not like starting as subs to give a break). The kids they added aren't on the regular team so not sure how this helps anyone (guest players are playing down, current team members don't bond and play together while losing out on minutes, touches and important decision making opportunities).

Is this normal in a 9v9 setting?

-No, it is not the usual practice. But These issues come up, all because the Coach wants to "Win" and Not Develop Players. (Players grow a lot by getting minutes in tournaments. Weaker players grow and rise to the pressure of being in the mix in high pressure situations. If you marginalize weaker players and don't play them, the Coach does not have a Growth & Development Mindset.... just wants to win. I.e., keep the All-Star Kid's families Happy and everyone else is there to support those player's development.)

1st off, for a 9v9 tournament, 2-3 subs on the bench is normal. Often, Coaches will only seek out guest players if the team does not have enough players.

2nd, typically, guest players are called-up from the lower team or age group. Only should 1st team players play down if the team "really" needs help, possibly be being slated in a much higher bracket in a tournament than normal.

3rd, the guest players should not start unless you are missing a key position from your line up, like GK for example. Guest players should then get about half the game playing time, like how all players on the whole team should.

-Also, the opposite scenario can occur. This went poorly for a few kids at LMVSC, when they were invited to play with their 1st team last year, but the Coach only put the guest players in for 5-10 per half for relief purposes only. The 3 guest families were very upset that we spent a whole weekend for 5-10 min per game, when some of the 1st team players were over worked and never supped out at U11.

-If a Coach gave a crap about the weaker players, they should try to play them as much as possible to grow them. If you want to drive kids away from the Sport, keep them on the bench. Kids get upset and want to quit when they only get 5 min out of a 25 min half. Especially in a tournament.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have full participation (all players RSVPd yes) for our first tournament of the season but the coach or club added players from the team above ours. Now these kids are taking up playing time and a significant amount (not like starting as subs to give a break). The kids they added aren't on the regular team so not sure how this helps anyone (guest players are playing down, current team members don't bond and play together while losing out on minutes, touches and important decision making opportunities).

Is this normal in a 9v9 setting?

-No, it is not the usual practice. But These issues come up, all because the Coach wants to "Win" and Not Develop Players. (Players grow a lot by getting minutes in tournaments. Weaker players grow and rise to the pressure of being in the mix in high pressure situations. If you marginalize weaker players and don't play them, the Coach does not have a Growth & Development Mindset.... just wants to win. I.e., keep the All-Star Kid's families Happy and everyone else is there to support those player's development.)

1st off, for a 9v9 tournament, 2-3 subs on the bench is normal. Often, Coaches will only seek out guest players if the team does not have enough players.

2nd, typically, guest players are called-up from the lower team or age group. Only should 1st team players play down if the team "really" needs help, possibly be being slated in a much higher bracket in a tournament than normal.

3rd, the guest players should not start unless you are missing a key position from your line up, like GK for example. Guest players should then get about half the game playing time, like how all players on the whole team should.

-Also, the opposite scenario can occur. This went poorly for a few kids at LMVSC, when they were invited to play with their 1st team last year, but the Coach only put the guest players in for 5-10 per half for relief purposes only. The 3 guest families were very upset that we spent a whole weekend for 5-10 min per game, when some of the 1st team players were over worked and never supped out at U11.

-If a Coach gave a crap about the weaker players, they should try to play them as much as possible to grow them. If you want to drive kids away from the Sport, keep them on the bench. Kids get upset and want to quit when they only get 5 min out of a 25 min half. Especially in a tournament.

OP here

This and other responses make me upset about it. Players were same year but just the higher up team despite having full roster and enough subs to begin with.

Especially as the first tournament. I could understand later if there are "lower" team players who come "up" to see how the mix but the way this was it only served to take away minutes and not give kids a chance to make plays in crucial moments and situations

[Anonymous]

Name the team so we know who to avoid!

[Anonymous]

Is it possible that someone on the team thought they would be unavailable and plans changed? Our top team doesn’t have a Labor Day tournament and I know at least one player who got asked to guest for the second team, but it was because the coach was afraid he wouldn’t have a full roster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another fun one that happened recently was at halftime while both teams were hudled with their coaches the refs got together in the center of the field.

While all that was happening a parent from the other team walked up to the refs and "talked" to them. I swear he slipped them cash because after we didnt get a single call to the point that it was weird.

I am a ref. Believe me, nobody is paying us cash to fix kids soccer games! Most of the time both teams think we are favoring the other. People only remember the calls that go against them but don’t notice all the ones that go their way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another fun one that happened recently was at halftime while both teams were hudled with their coaches the refs got together in the center of the field.

While all that was happening a parent from the other team walked up to the refs and "talked" to them. I swear he slipped them cash because after we didnt get a single call to the point that it was weird.

I am a ref. Believe me, nobody is paying us cash to fix kids soccer games! Most of the time both teams think we are favoring the other. People only remember the calls that go against them but don’t notice all the ones that go their way.

As a ref on what planet do you think it's acceptable to discuss the game with a parent in the center of the field at halftime.

[Anonymous]

What age

[Anonymous]

OP,

You really need to find a way to name the club.

This is not acceptable.

My child does guest for other clubs and they never start. They usually come off the bench and eventually start as the tournament goes along and the parents want to win.

Within the club when playing down, we will guest if there is not enough players for the B team. We have never “played down” when there are a sufficient numbers of players. That level of “win at all costs” should be exposed IMHO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m new to soccer. I thought that they could play up but not down? If it’s against the rules to pay down how do they get away with it?

If the club that's cheating by playing older players down is the host of the tournament (its their tournament) who do you complain to? This is the issue. They're not going to report themselves.

There still are tournament directors who are supposed to deal with these exact issues (luckily around here this is all outsourced anyways). I have to laugh at the whole "host" club for a lot of these things. Yes they rake in some $$$$, but there are tons of teams/age groups and they aren't rigging it for every single one.

Also the whole 2008's playing on 2010 sounds just made up honestly.

100% true.

The club has enough home fields to run everything themselves.

Everyone knows that this is just how they play. Have been caught several times with fake cards. I dont know why parents let their kids play there. How pissed would you be if a coach benched your kid to cheat by playing older kids down?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have full participation (all players RSVPd yes) for our first tournament of the season but the coach or club added players from the team above ours. Now these kids are taking up playing time and a significant amount (not like starting as subs to give a break). The kids they added aren't on the regular team so not sure how this helps anyone (guest players are playing down, current team members don't bond and play together while losing out on minutes, touches and important decision making opportunities).

Is this normal in a 9v9 setting?

Not a scam, but your club is showing you they only care about your $$, not developing players.

[Anonymous]

NAME THE CLUB

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NAME THE CLUB

+1

[Anonymous]

WE WANT THE NAME!

unacceptable. You should speak up to the coach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:WE WANT THE NAME!

unacceptable. You should speak up to the coach.

The coaches, docs, and owners already know that this club cheats to win. The parents on the teams with "guest players" playing down on fake cards also are 100% aware of what's going on.

Over time poor decisions and poor management will tank the club. I know of multiple parents that refuse to let their kids play there. I think this is what everyone is banking on.

[Anonymous]

How many kids were at the game and how many were guests?

Next question, why are you not calling out the coach? Why is nobody ever calling out these coaches?!?