Stoddert - 25 kids in kindergarten class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"good schools" in upper NW, the ones with a lottery waiting list, are notoriously packed. Everyone wants in. Less desirable schools can provide smaller classes, but then you have a less desirable student population with increased behavioral issues and lower test scores.

It’s simply not that predictable.

I sent two kids to the same WotP DCPS. Two years apart, same school, same kindergarten teacher, same aide.

One had a kindergarten class of 27. The other had a kindergarten class of 19.

There was no discernible difference in the waiting list, test scores, student body, etc., between the school in year 0 and the school in year 2. The difference was 9 students and 1 classroom: 4 classes of 26-27 became 5 classes of 19-20.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"good schools" in upper NW, the ones with a lottery waiting list, are notoriously packed. Everyone wants in. Less desirable schools can provide smaller classes, but then you have a less desirable student population with increased behavioral issues and lower test scores.

It’s simply not that predictable.

I sent two kids to the same WotP DCPS. Two years apart, same school, same kindergarten teacher, same aide.

One had a kindergarten class of 27. The other had a kindergarten class of 19.

There was no discernible difference in the waiting list, test scores, student body, etc., between the school in year 0 and the school in year 2. The difference was 9 students and 1 classroom: 4 classes of 26-27 became 5 classes of 19-20.

This. L-T this year has 4 2nd grade classes for 76 students and 3 3rd grade classes for 75. It can really be a 1 student thing. (Although I still think they will end up admitting more 2nd graders, the school is busting at the gils with the renovation delayed, so they really might not.)

[Anonymous]

I thought class sizes were smaller EOTP because of Title 1 funds. They have more money to hire more teachers this smaller classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They overload the classes in NW. In other wards, the classes are much smaller. Somehow "equity" is achieved by crowding.

Title I schools have a hard cap on class sizes. For K I think it's 22. The additional money for teachers to ensure class sizes fall within that comes from the federal government, not DCPS. That is why many schools outside NW have smaller class sizes. It has nothing to do with trying to crowd NW schools. It has to do with Title I schools having different rules and another funding source, not DCPS somehow favoring these schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought class sizes were smaller EOTP because of Title 1 funds. They have more money to hire more teachers this smaller classes.

Sorry just saw this, didn't mean to duplicate your comment. But yes, this is the reason. DCPS isn't just refusing to give NW schools more money for teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought class sizes were smaller EOTP because of Title 1 funds. They have more money to hire more teachers this smaller classes.

Sorry just saw this, didn't mean to duplicate your comment. But yes, this is the reason. DCPS isn't just refusing to give NW schools more money for teachers.

DCPS obviously does decline to give the schools money to reduce class sizes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"good schools" in upper NW, the ones with a lottery waiting list, are notoriously packed. Everyone wants in. Less desirable schools can provide smaller classes, but then you have a less desirable student population with increased behavioral issues and lower test scores.

It’s simply not that predictable.

I sent two kids to the same WotP DCPS. Two years apart, same school, same kindergarten teacher, same aide.

One had a kindergarten class of 27. The other had a kindergarten class of 19.

There was no discernible difference in the waiting list, test scores, student body, etc., between the school in year 0 and the school in year 2. The difference was 9 students and 1 classroom: 4 classes of 26-27 became 5 classes of 19-20.

This. L-T this year has 4 2nd grade classes for 76 students and 3 3rd grade classes for 75. It can really be a 1 student thing. (Although I still think they will end up admitting more 2nd graders, the school is busting at the gils with the renovation delayed, so they really might not.)

Isn't 3rd grade departmentalized though? That's probably why they added a 2nd grade teacher instead of one in 3rd. Easier to handle larger class sizes when kids rotate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought class sizes were smaller EOTP because of Title 1 funds. They have more money to hire more teachers this smaller classes.

Sorry just saw this, didn't mean to duplicate your comment. But yes, this is the reason. DCPS isn't just refusing to give NW schools more money for teachers.

DCPS obviously does decline to give the schools money to reduce class sizes.

Yes but they do so with all schools equally. There is not infinity money, sorry. But Title I schools have access to another pool of money, plus federal mandates that keep their class sizes lower. Like literally if a Title I's enrollment is resulting in class sizes over a certain limit, it results in additional funds to the school to hire another teacher. That has nothing to do with DCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"good schools" in upper NW, the ones with a lottery waiting list, are notoriously packed. Everyone wants in. Less desirable schools can provide smaller classes, but then you have a less desirable student population with increased behavioral issues and lower test scores.

It’s simply not that predictable.

I sent two kids to the same WotP DCPS. Two years apart, same school, same kindergarten teacher, same aide.

One had a kindergarten class of 27. The other had a kindergarten class of 19.

There was no discernible difference in the waiting list, test scores, student body, etc., between the school in year 0 and the school in year 2. The difference was 9 students and 1 classroom: 4 classes of 26-27 became 5 classes of 19-20.

This. L-T this year has 4 2nd grade classes for 76 students and 3 3rd grade classes for 75. It can really be a 1 student thing. (Although I still think they will end up admitting more 2nd graders, the school is busting at the gils with the renovation delayed, so they really might not.)

Isn't 3rd grade departmentalized though? That's probably why they added a 2nd grade teacher instead of one in 3rd. Easier to handle larger class sizes when kids rotate.

Why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"good schools" in upper NW, the ones with a lottery waiting list, are notoriously packed. Everyone wants in. Less desirable schools can provide smaller classes, but then you have a less desirable student population with increased behavioral issues and lower test scores.

It’s simply not that predictable.

I sent two kids to the same WotP DCPS. Two years apart, same school, same kindergarten teacher, same aide.

One had a kindergarten class of 27. The other had a kindergarten class of 19.

There was no discernible difference in the waiting list, test scores, student body, etc., between the school in year 0 and the school in year 2. The difference was 9 students and 1 classroom: 4 classes of 26-27 became 5 classes of 19-20.

This. L-T this year has 4 2nd grade classes for 76 students and 3 3rd grade classes for 75. It can really be a 1 student thing. (Although I still think they will end up admitting more 2nd graders, the school is busting at the gils with the renovation delayed, so they really might not.)

Isn't 3rd grade departmentalized though? That's probably why they added a 2nd grade teacher instead of one in 3rd. Easier to handle larger class sizes when kids rotate.

Why?

Because the teachers can work together and back each other up. The teachers can give each other breaks. Also, in a departmentalize grade, the teachers are teaching all the kids no matter what. If you are the grade's ELA teacher, you're teaching ELA to all 75 kids no matter how they are broken up into classes. Whereas for a 1st or 2nd grade teacher, your class size will dictate how many kids you're teaching. A class of 26 versus 22 means you need to get to know and provide differentiated academic experiences for an additional 4 kids across all subjects. But a departmentalized teacher is teaching the same kids no matter what.

Don't get me wrong, larger class sizes are ALWAYS harder. But if you only have funds for one additional teacher, it makes sense use it for the grade with independent teachers instead of the departmentalized grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"good schools" in upper NW, the ones with a lottery waiting list, are notoriously packed. Everyone wants in. Less desirable schools can provide smaller classes, but then you have a less desirable student population with increased behavioral issues and lower test scores.

It’s simply not that predictable.

I sent two kids to the same WotP DCPS. Two years apart, same school, same kindergarten teacher, same aide.

One had a kindergarten class of 27. The other had a kindergarten class of 19.

There was no discernible difference in the waiting list, test scores, student body, etc., between the school in year 0 and the school in year 2. The difference was 9 students and 1 classroom: 4 classes of 26-27 became 5 classes of 19-20.

This. L-T this year has 4 2nd grade classes for 76 students and 3 3rd grade classes for 75. It can really be a 1 student thing. (Although I still think they will end up admitting more 2nd graders, the school is busting at the gils with the renovation delayed, so they really might not.)

Isn't 3rd grade departmentalized though? That's probably why they added a 2nd grade teacher instead of one in 3rd. Easier to handle larger class sizes when kids rotate.

Why?

Because the teachers can work together and back each other up. The teachers can give each other breaks. Also, in a departmentalize grade, the teachers are teaching all the kids no matter what. If you are the grade's ELA teacher, you're teaching ELA to all 75 kids no matter how they are broken up into classes. Whereas for a 1st or 2nd grade teacher, your class size will dictate how many kids you're teaching. A class of 26 versus 22 means you need to get to know and provide differentiated academic experiences for an additional 4 kids across all subjects. But a departmentalized teacher is teaching the same kids no matter what.

Don't get me wrong, larger class sizes are ALWAYS harder. But if you only have funds for one additional teacher, it makes sense use it for the grade with independent teachers instead of the departmentalized grade.

This really doesn't make any sense. Teaching 75 kids in 3 classes is very different than teaching 75 kids in 4 classes. It may be that class size matters less for non-departmentalized teachers in terms of their overall workload, but I don't think it actually makes it easier to teach the larger class... It just means that adding an extra teacher (assuming you stick with the same model of departmentalization) has less of an impact on an individual teacher's workload. But also, if you added a 4th teacher in 3rd grade, I think you would change the model of departmentalization, much like L-T did when it had only 2 5th grade classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"good schools" in upper NW, the ones with a lottery waiting list, are notoriously packed. Everyone wants in. Less desirable schools can provide smaller classes, but then you have a less desirable student population with increased behavioral issues and lower test scores.

It’s simply not that predictable.

I sent two kids to the same WotP DCPS. Two years apart, same school, same kindergarten teacher, same aide.

One had a kindergarten class of 27. The other had a kindergarten class of 19.

There was no discernible difference in the waiting list, test scores, student body, etc., between the school in year 0 and the school in year 2. The difference was 9 students and 1 classroom: 4 classes of 26-27 became 5 classes of 19-20.

This. L-T this year has 4 2nd grade classes for 76 students and 3 3rd grade classes for 75. It can really be a 1 student thing. (Although I still think they will end up admitting more 2nd graders, the school is busting at the gils with the renovation delayed, so they really might not.)

Isn't 3rd grade departmentalized though? That's probably why they added a 2nd grade teacher instead of one in 3rd. Easier to handle larger class sizes when kids rotate.

Why?

Because the teachers can work together and back each other up. The teachers can give each other breaks. Also, in a departmentalize grade, the teachers are teaching all the kids no matter what. If you are the grade's ELA teacher, you're teaching ELA to all 75 kids no matter how they are broken up into classes. Whereas for a 1st or 2nd grade teacher, your class size will dictate how many kids you're teaching. A class of 26 versus 22 means you need to get to know and provide differentiated academic experiences for an additional 4 kids across all subjects. But a departmentalized teacher is teaching the same kids no matter what.

Don't get me wrong, larger class sizes are ALWAYS harder. But if you only have funds for one additional teacher, it makes sense use it for the grade with independent teachers instead of the departmentalized grade.

This really doesn't make any sense. Teaching 75 kids in 3 classes is very different than teaching 75 kids in 4 classes. It may be that class size matters less for non-departmentalized teachers in terms of their overall workload, but I don't think it actually makes it easier to teach the larger class... It just means that adding an extra teacher (assuming you stick with the same model of departmentalization) has less of an impact on an individual teacher's workload. But also, if you added a 4th teacher in 3rd grade, I think you would change the model of departmentalization, much like L-T did when it had only 2 5th grade classes.

We are actually agreeing. If you read my whole comment, I point out that larger class sizes are always harder. Any teacher will tell you that. I'm just saying that if a school has 2nd and 3rd cohorts of roughly the same size but only enough budget to add one additional teacher, it makes sense to add the teacher to the non-departmentalized grade because the larger classes will be slightly less burdensome for the departmentalized grade, due to the efficiencies of the department model.

No teacher is going to say "oh yes, please, the more the merrier." Teachers hate getting stuck with the big classes. But an administration making these decisions has to decide where the money for an additional teacher is best spent. I would choose that 2nd grade cohort with individual teachers over adding a 4th teacher to the 3rd grade department team every time. It's the right choice.

[Anonymous]

I’ve had multiple kids go through Stoddert and that’s always been the norm for kindergarten. It’s totally fine. First grade will likely have smaller class sizes because they go from 3 teachers in K to 4 in 1st grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They overload the classes in NW. In other wards, the classes are much smaller. Somehow "equity" is achieved by crowding.

You sound uninformed

Huh. Funny that, as I actually am well-informed.

Yeah because NW makes up the majority of the city (looking at maps is free) and wards span the city. Two different designations that don’t align shows how well informed you are

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought class sizes were smaller EOTP because of Title 1 funds. They have more money to hire more teachers this smaller classes.

Sorry just saw this, didn't mean to duplicate your comment. But yes, this is the reason. DCPS isn't just refusing to give NW schools more money for teachers.

DCPS obviously does decline to give the schools money to reduce class sizes.

Yes but they do so with all schools equally. There is not infinity money, sorry. But Title I schools have access to another pool of money, plus federal mandates that keep their class sizes lower. Like literally if a Title I's enrollment is resulting in class sizes over a certain limit, it results in additional funds to the school to hire another teacher. That has nothing to do with DCPS.

+1

DCPS is not shortchanging any school. Title 1 schools have different funding sources. DCPS is not going to give non Title 1 schools more money to make their funding analogous to Title 1 schools.