Engineering + Pre-Med

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MD here. The only successful ones I knew at my T10 undergrad were the BME students because there were some overlap in the course requirements. That said, I wouldn’t recommend it as it is a lot harder to get a 4.0 as an engineering major. Med schools care about the GPA, MCAT score and clinical experience. So don’t have your kid make it any harder to get into med school by taking harder classes and overloading their schedule.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MD here. The only successful ones I knew at my T10 undergrad were the BME students because there were some overlap in the course requirements. That said, I wouldn’t recommend it as it is a lot harder to get a 4.0 as an engineering major. Med schools care about the GPA, MCAT score and clinical experience. So don’t have your kid make it any harder to get into med school by taking harder classes and overloading their schedule.

This really depends on the undergrad institution. Kid's ivy tells them the data and the premeds in Engineering have a 94% acceptance rate to MD schools in the US with a GPA over a 3.7, which is higher than the % for a 3.7 in arts/sciences. However, 3.7 is around average in the E school, 3.8 is average in arts/sci majors. A 4.0 is not needed from top schools, engineering or not. In fact, AMCAS has a gpa vs mcat chart that lists 61% acceptance for ALL mcat scores for those with GPA over 3.79. 79% with Gpa over 3.79 from any college and above 517 MCAT, which is around the average mcat at most T15/ivy undergrads. Makes the 94% above 3.7 for engineers from this ivy look pretty impressive.

Ivy doesn’t tell me how good or difficult the engineering program is at that school. Is it a top 5 engineering program?

[Anonymous]

I was a ChemE back in the late 90s and took all the required premed classes. I was horrible doing physical lab experiments so changed course and did computer simulation and modeling for PhD. My kid is rising 2nd year ChemE and is planning to take MCAT next year and will go from there. But his priority is successfully completing ROTC program and try to become a pilot.

[Anonymous]

MD with many med school (T5) and undergraduate (T15) peers who where engineering majors. It was doable in the 90s and remains so today, or at least that is the case at my alma mater then and now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it possible to take all the required pre-med classes while completing an engineering degree, preferably in 4 years?

Which classes are typically more difficult, engineering or med school prerequisites?

Engineering courses overlap with premed. Premeds do not have to take thermodynamics, quantum, or fluid mechanics which are much harder than orgo and physics (generally thought to be the hardest four premed semesters). Engineers who are not premed often have to take orgo and phyiscs too(chemE, biomolecular, materials).

Of course it is possible to be an engineer and a premed. I went to a top school that has engineering and many of my undergrad friends graduated in 4 yrs, BME, and are all physicians now. To be fair they often had an easier time with the MCAT because they had many more difficult courses than we did as regular premeds.
My premed son is at a different ivy, he is aiming MDPhD and will easily finish in 4 yrs, as do essentially all in Engineering there, unless they choose to do a 4+1 masters (not a typical premed option though some do). The medical school admission rate is very high from BME at this school, about 90%. A 5th year for undergrad is almost unheard of for engineering or any major there, premed or not. Courses are guaranteed though, so there is no registration issue at play which may occur at large schools.
Bio/molecular or biomedical engineering overlaps the most with premed. Engineers generally take 5 classes a semester; students who are non-engineering bio or chem majors (or any arts&sci major) take 4 most semesters. One of DC's friends is Materials Eng and premed; that seems to overlap well too due to chem, orgo, and physics requirements.

Premed coursework. This flow assumes no AP or other place-out, though at top schools many can skip a couple of semesters--upper level engineering is plenty of extra science coursework so med schools do not care if they skip intro physics or bio. Non engineers who skip intros due to AP are often expected to take upper levels in the same discipline.
1st year: gen chem 2 semesters, math 2 semesters(calc2 &stats or upper math if ahead). physics 1&2 is needed for engineers, leaves 2 openings per semester for intro engineering requirements and writing/language/humanities electives. For most non-premed engineering students they take a similar load to this.
2nd yr: orgo 1&2, GenBio/upper level bio (or could do physics here and bios first year, depending on the school), leaves 3 openings per semester for engineering coursework, and rest of math needed, which may overlap with those already taken.
3rd year: biochem 1, upperlevel BME counts as upper level bios, psychology, leaving a lot of room each semester for engineering courses and humanities electives.
4th year: wide open for the rest of engineering, and all premed reqs done so that one could take the MCAT after 3rd year.

Sorry but what a crock of BS. Engineers do not typically take orgo or any quantum mechanics. Engineers tend to take an intro and intermediate mechanics course, intro E&M, thermo, intro chemistry and an electronics course

[Anonymous]

yes, plenty of my daughter's friends were pre-med chemE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it possible to take all the required pre-med classes while completing an engineering degree, preferably in 4 years?

Which classes are typically more difficult, engineering or med school prerequisites?

Engineering courses overlap with premed. Premeds do not have to take thermodynamics, quantum, or fluid mechanics which are much harder than orgo and physics (generally thought to be the hardest four premed semesters). Engineers who are not premed often have to take orgo and phyiscs too(chemE, biomolecular, materials).

Of course it is possible to be an engineer and a premed. I went to a top school that has engineering and many of my undergrad friends graduated in 4 yrs, BME, and are all physicians now. To be fair they often had an easier time with the MCAT because they had many more difficult courses than we did as regular premeds.
My premed son is at a different ivy, he is aiming MDPhD and will easily finish in 4 yrs, as do essentially all in Engineering there, unless they choose to do a 4+1 masters (not a typical premed option though some do). The medical school admission rate is very high from BME at this school, about 90%. A 5th year for undergrad is almost unheard of for engineering or any major there, premed or not. Courses are guaranteed though, so there is no registration issue at play which may occur at large schools.
Bio/molecular or biomedical engineering overlaps the most with premed. Engineers generally take 5 classes a semester; students who are non-engineering bio or chem majors (or any arts&sci major) take 4 most semesters. One of DC's friends is Materials Eng and premed; that seems to overlap well too due to chem, orgo, and physics requirements.

Premed coursework. This flow assumes no AP or other place-out, though at top schools many can skip a couple of semesters--upper level engineering is plenty of extra science coursework so med schools do not care if they skip intro physics or bio. Non engineers who skip intros due to AP are often expected to take upper levels in the same discipline.
1st year: gen chem 2 semesters, math 2 semesters(calc2 &stats or upper math if ahead). physics 1&2 is needed for engineers, leaves 2 openings per semester for intro engineering requirements and writing/language/humanities electives. For most non-premed engineering students they take a similar load to this.
2nd yr: orgo 1&2, GenBio/upper level bio (or could do physics here and bios first year, depending on the school), leaves 3 openings per semester for engineering coursework, and rest of math needed, which may overlap with those already taken.
3rd year: biochem 1, upperlevel BME counts as upper level bios, psychology, leaving a lot of room each semester for engineering courses and humanities electives.
4th year: wide open for the rest of engineering, and all premed reqs done so that one could take the MCAT after 3rd year.

Sorry but what a crock of BS. Engineers do not typically take orgo or any quantum mechanics. Engineers tend to take an intro and intermediate mechanics course, intro E&M, thermo, intro chemistry and an electronics course

False.
Organic chem is required for chemE at both my kids T10s and is listed for materials E in some places. Its listed for molecular Engineering in other top places. Quantum mechanics is part of the curriculum for multiple different Engineering disciplines. E&M the same E&M the physics majors take is required for all.
Top Engineering school programs go beyond minimal ABET.
Even in Engineering where orgo is not required, doing it in addition to engineering is simply not that hard for bright science minded kids. Orgo is less difficult than many engineering courses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it possible to take all the required pre-med classes while completing an engineering degree, preferably in 4 years?

Which classes are typically more difficult, engineering or med school prerequisites?

Engineering courses overlap with premed. Premeds do not have to take thermodynamics, quantum, or fluid mechanics which are much harder than orgo and physics (generally thought to be the hardest four premed semesters). Engineers who are not premed often have to take orgo and phyiscs too(chemE, biomolecular, materials).

Of course it is possible to be an engineer and a premed. I went to a top school that has engineering and many of my undergrad friends graduated in 4 yrs, BME, and are all physicians now. To be fair they often had an easier time with the MCAT because they had many more difficult courses than we did as regular premeds.
My premed son is at a different ivy, he is aiming MDPhD and will easily finish in 4 yrs, as do essentially all in Engineering there, unless they choose to do a 4+1 masters (not a typical premed option though some do). The medical school admission rate is very high from BME at this school, about 90%. A 5th year for undergrad is almost unheard of for engineering or any major there, premed or not. Courses are guaranteed though, so there is no registration issue at play which may occur at large schools.
Bio/molecular or biomedical engineering overlaps the most with premed. Engineers generally take 5 classes a semester; students who are non-engineering bio or chem majors (or any arts&sci major) take 4 most semesters. One of DC's friends is Materials Eng and premed; that seems to overlap well too due to chem, orgo, and physics requirements.

Premed coursework. This flow assumes no AP or other place-out, though at top schools many can skip a couple of semesters--upper level engineering is plenty of extra science coursework so med schools do not care if they skip intro physics or bio. Non engineers who skip intros due to AP are often expected to take upper levels in the same discipline.
1st year: gen chem 2 semesters, math 2 semesters(calc2 &stats or upper math if ahead). physics 1&2 is needed for engineers, leaves 2 openings per semester for intro engineering requirements and writing/language/humanities electives. For most non-premed engineering students they take a similar load to this.
2nd yr: orgo 1&2, GenBio/upper level bio (or could do physics here and bios first year, depending on the school), leaves 3 openings per semester for engineering coursework, and rest of math needed, which may overlap with those already taken.
3rd year: biochem 1, upperlevel BME counts as upper level bios, psychology, leaving a lot of room each semester for engineering courses and humanities electives.
4th year: wide open for the rest of engineering, and all premed reqs done so that one could take the MCAT after 3rd year.

Sorry but what a crock of BS. Engineers do not typically take orgo or any quantum mechanics. Engineers tend to take an intro and intermediate mechanics course, intro E&M, thermo, intro chemistry and an electronics course

False.
Organic chem is required for chemE at both my kids T10s and is listed for materials E in some places. Its listed for molecular Engineering in other top places. Quantum mechanics is part of the curriculum for multiple different Engineering disciplines. E&M the same E&M the physics majors take is required for all.
Top Engineering school programs go beyond minimal ABET.
Even in Engineering where orgo is not required, doing it in addition to engineering is simply not that hard for bright science minded kids. Orgo is less difficult than many engineering courses.

My kid is a Chem Eng major and he is definitely taking Org and much more difficult courses in science and math. A much more difficult path. But well worth it because the career even without medicine, if he decides, will be very good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it possible to take all the required pre-med classes while completing an engineering degree, preferably in 4 years?

Which classes are typically more difficult, engineering or med school prerequisites?

I am an engineer, and my kid just finished med school. I'd have to say no, not in 4 years.

Unless kid is BME or Chem Eng, then it is much easier, as the eng degree requires most of the premed prerequisites

[Anonymous]

Premed requirements are extremely light. That's why med school is a 4 year school here, while being an undergrad degree in most of the world.

It might be a squeeze for some majoring in non-bio/chem engineering, but why would you do that if you are premed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MD here. The only successful ones I knew at my T10 undergrad were the BME students because there were some overlap in the course requirements. That said, I wouldn’t recommend it as it is a lot harder to get a 4.0 as an engineering major. Med schools care about the GPA, MCAT score and clinical experience. So don’t have your kid make it any harder to get into med school by taking harder classes and overloading their schedule.

However, if you do BME/ChemE and keep at least a 3.7+, you should be fine. Med schools know which degrees are more challenging.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know it's not uncommon for engineering students to have lower GPAs, so that could be a hindrance. OTOH, could theoretically get a job right after undergrad if med school does not happen -- or even to do as a gap year(s).

The Chem E i knew who did this was at the top of their class, no low GPA there. I know because they won an award given by the college for those who have straight 'A"s all of their semesters.
Really smart kid

I wouldn’t have the nerve to go Chem E and then try to apply for med school. My GPA would not have made the cut.

Most CHem E have good GPAs. Otherwise they drop to a different major---it's a challenging major and not for the faint hearted

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Premed requirements are extremely light. That's why med school is a 4 year school here, while being an undergrad degree in most of the world.

It might be a squeeze for some majoring in non-bio/chem engineering, but why would you do that if you are premed?

That’s not the reason why Med Schools is a 4 year graduate degree here vs other countries. Pre-Med is just basic sciences. You can major in anything you wish as long as you get in those science classes or upper division ones that will cover for them. Doing it with Engineering is easier for those in ChemE or a BioTech aligned Engineerkng because you have to take the courses for the major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MD here. The only successful ones I knew at my T10 undergrad were the BME students because there were some overlap in the course requirements. That said, I wouldn’t recommend it as it is a lot harder to get a 4.0 as an engineering major. Med schools care about the GPA, MCAT score and clinical experience. So don’t have your kid make it any harder to get into med school by taking harder classes and overloading their schedule.

However, if you do BME/ChemE and keep at least a 3.7+, you should be fine. Med schools know which degrees are more challenging.

+1. But 3.7 at my kid's top 4 eng school for ChemE is no small task. lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it possible to take all the required pre-med classes while completing an engineering degree, preferably in 4 years?

Which classes are typically more difficult, engineering or med school prerequisites?

Engineering courses overlap with premed. Premeds do not have to take thermodynamics, quantum, or fluid mechanics which are much harder than orgo and physics (generally thought to be the hardest four premed semesters). Engineers who are not premed often have to take orgo and phyiscs too(chemE, biomolecular, materials).

Of course it is possible to be an engineer and a premed. I went to a top school that has engineering and many of my undergrad friends graduated in 4 yrs, BME, and are all physicians now. To be fair they often had an easier time with the MCAT because they had many more difficult courses than we did as regular premeds.
My premed son is at a different ivy, he is aiming MDPhD and will easily finish in 4 yrs, as do essentially all in Engineering there, unless they choose to do a 4+1 masters (not a typical premed option though some do). The medical school admission rate is very high from BME at this school, about 90%. A 5th year for undergrad is almost unheard of for engineering or any major there, premed or not. Courses are guaranteed though, so there is no registration issue at play which may occur at large schools.
Bio/molecular or biomedical engineering overlaps the most with premed. Engineers generally take 5 classes a semester; students who are non-engineering bio or chem majors (or any arts&sci major) take 4 most semesters. One of DC's friends is Materials Eng and premed; that seems to overlap well too due to chem, orgo, and physics requirements.

Premed coursework. This flow assumes no AP or other place-out, though at top schools many can skip a couple of semesters--upper level engineering is plenty of extra science coursework so med schools do not care if they skip intro physics or bio. Non engineers who skip intros due to AP are often expected to take upper levels in the same discipline.
1st year: gen chem 2 semesters, math 2 semesters(calc2 &stats or upper math if ahead). physics 1&2 is needed for engineers, leaves 2 openings per semester for intro engineering requirements and writing/language/humanities electives. For most non-premed engineering students they take a similar load to this.
2nd yr: orgo 1&2, GenBio/upper level bio (or could do physics here and bios first year, depending on the school), leaves 3 openings per semester for engineering coursework, and rest of math needed, which may overlap with those already taken.
3rd year: biochem 1, upperlevel BME counts as upper level bios, psychology, leaving a lot of room each semester for engineering courses and humanities electives.
4th year: wide open for the rest of engineering, and all premed reqs done so that one could take the MCAT after 3rd year.

Sorry but what a crock of BS. Engineers do not typically take orgo or any quantum mechanics. Engineers tend to take an intro and intermediate mechanics course, intro E&M, thermo, intro chemistry and an electronics course

My spouse was Mat Sci and he absolutely took quantum.